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Equipment Nikon D90

Discussion in 'Photography, Art & Design' started by akpoly, 26 Aug 2008.

  1. akpoly

    akpoly What's a Dremel?

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    http://www.dailytech.com/Nikon+D90+DSLR+Images+Specs+Leaked/article12768.htm

    Seems interesting enough for the soccer moms/dads out there. Seems like a nice update to the D80.

    What gets me is the rumor of video and audio recording capabilities? Not sure how well that will fly, but if it turns out to work reasonably well, I wish my D300 would have that function. Although I thought the whole point of DSLRs not being able to record video was because of the hardware limitations of the sensor...? Time will tell what is actually on this little guy.
     
  2. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    If it can do live view, then what is the limitation? Why can P&S cameras do it? It'd just a question of getting the mirror out of the way and the battery drain to do that, like you see now with live view. As for audio, the 1D and Dx series both have it. It's part of having a pro level camera. How else do you think that PJs remember names, places and plays?

    Tbh, I doubt this will appear, and if it does it will be badly implemented. Pulling information off a 12+MP sensor fast enough to get reasonable frame rates is going to be tough. Why do you think digi cams are still at 3MP? And think of the storage. 12MP AVIs or MPGs! Put that on a 4 Gb Ultra II. You're going to need 32Gb Extreme IVs, and that will be 1/2 the price of the camera. Or shoot to a hard drive. And do you think people will be willing to edit that? To see what a 12MP video looks like, see http://www.red.com/.
     
    Last edited: 26 Aug 2008
  3. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    You can't possibly think that you'd get 12MP video (that's just over 4k, like the RED) off a little DSLR body. You wouldn't be shooting to a hard drive, but a RAID array. On-the-fly downsampling to some very crisp 720p is plausible enough if data rate permits it, but the ($25,000+?) RED consumes over a gigabyte a minute at full resolution and is powered by at minimum two ultra-fast CF cards in RAID0. I think it's safe to assume we won't be seeing anything near that level of tech in a consumer DSLR for some time to come.
     
  4. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Not to mention the processing power needed. Pro cameras are already using 2 chips to process the still images to keep up with the frame rates. Imagine the chips they'll need to do still and video at the resolutions on the market now.

    But you have to admit, the RED camera system looks pretty schexy.
     
  5. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    I did it the old fashioned way: notepad and a pen. :p

    Really, though, the RED may be shooting some seriously large file sizes, but that's almost uncompressed and coming HD-SDI right out the back of the camera. It's also a cinema-level camera.

    As has been said, if it shot video I don't think it would be 12MP (again, space and processing limitations would be huge). Many of the new pro-sumer and ENG (electronic news gathering) cameras coming out now are storing 60 minutes of HD video on a 16GB card (or 2 8GB cards). Of course, these cameras are built specifically for this purpose, and are processing, encoding, and compressing the video all at once. Adding that kind of functionality to a DSLR would require additional power and processing equipment. If it does do video, I would expect it to be the same crummy video that the P&S cameras do.

    -monkey
     
  6. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Yes, gorgeous, but have you seen the prices? $199,-- for an 8Gb CF card; $250,-- for a handle. :eeek:
     
  7. GregTheRotter

    GregTheRotter Minimodder

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    D90 looks cool. I doubt I'll be upgrading to that though from my D80.

    Things that look good; hdmi output, video, 12mp, and so on. Thing that is missing is the AF system of the D300. That I wouldn't mind. Other than that, the D90 looks pretty good compared to the now discontinued D200, 4.5 fps vs 5, etc etc.
     
  8. akpoly

    akpoly What's a Dremel?

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    I've read in other places the DSLR hardware limitation is because the sensor starts to build up too much heat on the edges due to its size (digital medium format cameras have fans to cool the sensors).

    So yes, P&S do have video capabilities (and for a long time so) but their sensor is also much smaller so I will assume it doesn't generate ENOUGH heat to not make it possible. I'm just thinking it would be nice to pair it with the 18-200 even if it was only 3mp.
     
  9. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Actually, in the cinema world those are extremely cheap. That's one of the reasons RED is drawing so much criticism from the establishment. With prices like that it can be cheaper to buy your own camera rather than rent a giant Panasonic unit. Even more so when you don't have to spend money on film.

    -monkey
     
  10. Vers

    Vers ...

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    A good guess would be that the image sensor would not use its full 12.3mp while capturing video--I would think more like 6mp at best, more likely even less.
     
  11. akpoly

    akpoly What's a Dremel?

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    oooh, thinking about being able to use different apertures to get different DOF is making me giddy.
     
  12. Vers

    Vers ...

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    (Disclaimer: No Offense) What kind of video quality do you think your going to get? This feature is being developed specifically for PJ's and the like, not for Spielberg's or documentarists...certainly not something you will sit and admire the image quality of.
     
  13. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Exactly. In cinema terms, the things so cheap that you can pay it off by shooting 3 TV commercials. It has allowed a lot of small production houses to step up and produce stuff on par with, or better then, what is other wise the standard. Hell, they are as cheap as some digital backs on the market now.

    I say, leave SLRs to do what they do best. And increase the quality of the digital video stuff out there. Even if you are down sampling the video stream off a APS or 35mm sensor, you still are pushing a round stick through a square hole. It's just not a good idea....yet.

    Any use of it will be like live view, at maximum aperture. Most modern lenses lack an aperture ring to manually stop down. And what we, errr....I, am seeing from in camera video has a lot to be desired. Vers is right, it's a PJ thing, as that is where the market is going. And a damn shame too.
     
  14. akpoly

    akpoly What's a Dremel?

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    I'm not sure if you should call this a PJ's camera... This is more like serious amateur. But I will admit, professionals will use any caliber of camera, not necessarily the most expensive one.

    And it may not be the quality of RED, but I'm sure it'll be at least the same as P&S quality (and there is some good P&S video). Now if its on par with camcorder quality, this might appeal to a lot of consumers. It's nice having the option to record video. I was initially against video on P&S back in the day when they were first releasing that feature, but I have used it on occasion. Capturing video of your friend crying like a baby when he snorts wasabi up his nose is better than a still photo.

    The spielbergs out there will find better use of their Canon/Panasonic/Sony/RED video cameras anyways. I'd say its a nice feature to have in my DSLR, which I carry around almost everywhere anyway.
     
  15. Vers

    Vers ...

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    I never said the D90 was/is going to be a PJ camera...I stated the feature is/was developed in mind for PJ's.

    There is?

    It not only won't...but it can't.

    I'm sorry, are you a photographer--or a videographer? If I want to get shitty quality video I'd rather bust out my cell rather than my DSLR, we are talking convenience here, right? So much for "A picture is worth a thousand words"

    My point was, and still is, you will not get the video quality you think you will...in fact most likely not even close.

    EDIT: I have nothing against in camera video...hurray for all the PJ's and paparazzi's. What I do have a problem with is the fact that major DSLR mnfrs are delegating valuable resources and time to a feature that only benefits an extremely small percentage of real photographers. Spend that time and money on research for higher ISO performance...I want ISO 51200 that looks like ISO400!, give us in camera wireless data transferring and full frame AF points with an upgraded form of ECF! God dammit provide features a photographer can really use!
     
    Last edited: 26 Aug 2008
  16. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Too right. Last year I watched Peter Jackson's short film at the RED booth at NAB. This year I saw bits of an upcoming Steven Soderberg project, as well as some featured video from other folks. The quality is amazing, and sitting in the theater it looks every bit as good - or better - than film. Affordable digital cinema is here, and its name is RED. But I digress.

    Anyone drooling over the prospect of a 12MP video image is going to be very disappointed. The Panasonic AJ-HPX3700 is an HD video camera aimed at the digital cinema market, and it only has a 2.2 MP sensor (1080*1920 - give or take). I seriously doubt that Nikon is going to be able to get the D90 to output 12MP video at a pro-sumer price point. I would agree with JJ and Vers that it'll be P&S quality at best; it's something to lure more soccer moms into thinking they need expensive DSLRs.

    -monkey
     
  17. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    Yeah, but those handles are badass. In any case, the body is stupidly cheap (comparatively) for what you're getting.
     
  18. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ChaseJarvis/~3/375846583/chase-jarvis-raw-advance-testing-nikon.html
    /edit - Hm, 999MSRP. I've got to plans to switch but it sounds like there's quite a lot of camera in that thing. The low-light performance of the 50D (and the 5DII if it's ever announced...) had better be very much up to scratch. In theory if they wanted to go head-to-head with Nikon in this video thing it could be done with a very impressive firmware update were it not for audio, which is a shame as that'll move some units in the right market segment.
     
    Last edited: 27 Aug 2008
  19. akpoly

    akpoly What's a Dremel?

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    Not sure why anyone would want a 12MP video. Your 1080P television can't display that much info. Your monitor can't either. Perhaps you have a 6 figure projector at home on your 50' screen, sure why not?

    http://gizmodo.com/5042209/nikon-d90-official-first-dslr-ever-with-hd-video-recording

    It is at a respectable 720P (whatever that translates to in MP). Displays (consumers) only go up to 1080P anyways (monitors not included). Its a first gen implementation, so the following iterations will get better.

    And when the time comes that they can implement 512,000 ISO to look like ISO 100, then that will be the time. If they can add functionality of video with current tech, then why piss and moan about its implementation? Its not like it made the camera any bigger, most of the hardware was already in there. Its just a cherry on the top. The rest of the camera specs have trickled down from the pro bodies.
     
  20. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Ok. I have a lot of respect for Chase, so I'm willing to say I might be wrong. I will have to keep an open mind until I have had one in my hand. I haven't downloaded it all, but I do wonder if that youtube video was shot on a D90.

    Edit: looks like the youtube vid was shot with their digicam, not the D90.
     
    Last edited: 27 Aug 2008
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