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Old 24th Feb 2016, 14:53   #41
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Do not personally care either way, but we have already been informed that as 90% of our business is derived from the EU a vote to leave is a vote to be sacked. Blackmail is good ya.

If you think of the company's that will do that and the civil service you will have 10% of the vote to stay in just civil servants. Company's like Defra who's entire business is EU based.

A leave vote will need to attract a lot of votes.

If your working in a big company your going to get blackmailed to vote to stay whether you want to or not.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 15:03   #42
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Originally Posted by Risky View Post
Please state what you are on about. What is "the Private Central Bank"? Please illustrate with links to reliable websites that are not on about Jewish conspiracies and so on.
I am talking about the people who are printing and issuing the currency. They are printing money interest based and lending it to our Government. All governments have the power to print and issue their own currency, interest free. Yet for some reason we are all signed on to this system that is making billions, if not trillions in profit for a small group of individuals.

I don't know anything of conspiracies and have no interest in the persuasion of any particular group. Nor do I have power over what you are surfing.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 15:14   #43
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Originally Posted by moose67 View Post
I am talking about the people who are printing and issuing the currency. They are printing money interest based and lending it to our Government. All governments have the power to print and issue their own currency, interest free. Yet for some reason we are all signed on to this system that is making billions, if not trillions in profit for a small group of individuals.

I don't know anything of conspiracies and have no interest in the persuasion of any particular group. Nor do I have power over what you are surfing.
Um? what? In England banknotes are issued by the bank of England, though seven other banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland issue notes under the supervision of the Bank of England http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/bankn...rnireland.aspx English notes are printed by De La Rue plc at the moment.

No private individuals involved there and anything else of your nonsense.

EDIT: And what on earth is "the Private Central Bank"?
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Last edited by Risky; 24th Feb 2016 at 15:16. Reason: missed a bit
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 15:20   #44
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Guessing he means the European Central Bank that is in charge of the Euro currency which the uk is not part off.

Or the Bank of England maybe they are the only 2 in Europe that print money.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 15:25   #45
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Guessing he means the European Central Bank that is in charge of the Euro currency which the uk is not part off.

Or the Bank of England maybe they are the only 2 in Europe that print money.
I'm not sure because when I google "The private central bank" I find conspiracy sites going on about "the Rothschilds".................
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 16:39   #46
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I'm not sure because when I google "The private central bank" I find conspiracy sites going on about "the Rothschilds".................
I am not going to give any specific sites as that just opens the door to more dispute.

There is several of these banks in operation. The Federal Reserve in America is one. So google that maybe. The American people are in debt to the tune of trillions to them.

Our Government is in debt to one of these institutes. Maybe you can find out a definite answer?

I am just trying to bring the info out. We owe billions of pounds to one of these organisations, and we are all paying a heavy price for it.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 16:46   #47
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Originally Posted by moose67 View Post
I am not going to give any specific sites as that just opens the door to more dispute.



There is several of these banks in operation. The Federal Reserve in America is one. So google that maybe. The American people are in debt to the tune of trillions to them.



Our Government is in debt to one of these institutes. Maybe you can find out a definite answer?



I am just trying to bring the info out. We owe billions of pounds to one of these organisations, and we are all paying a heavy price for it.

Why such vagueries?
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 16:57   #48
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Originally Posted by moose67 View Post
I am not going to give any specific sites as that just opens the door to more dispute.

There is several of these banks in operation. The Federal Reserve in America is one. So google that maybe. The American people are in debt to the tune of trillions to them.

Our Government is in debt to one of these institutes. Maybe you can find out a definite answer?

I am just trying to bring the info out. We owe billions of pounds to one of these organisations, and we are all paying a heavy price for it.
Okay, if you look up at the top, this forum is titled "Serious". You are spouting phrases I can only find elsewhere on conspiracy-fruitcake sites. I point this out an you tell us you cannot link to the sources as we will disagree with them.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:03   #49
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I find it hilarious that you're able to state things so black and white. The EU has done nothing good? Literally nothing? Yeah right.
The only thing that can be seen as positive is the freedom of travelling, but that was possible for me before Schengen. I did'nt need any visa to travel to 95% of all countries in the world actually.

Freedom to live and work whereever you want in the EU is something you might see as a positive, but I don't actually. All it does is lowering the wages in general.

So yeah. That's the only two points I can think of that might be seen as a positive, which I personally don't. All the other EU-regulations have impacted Finland in a negative way as far as I see it... environmental rules and laws have made things worse here, standards for customer-safety were lowered (allowed quantities of toxins in products, etc), economic rules that actually make it harder for Finland to compete, and on, and on, and on.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:06   #50
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Okay, if you look up at the top, this forum is titled "Serious". You are spouting phrases I can only find elsewhere on conspiracy-fruitcake sites. I point this out an you tell us you cannot link to the sources as we will disagree with them.
+Rep to you sir, does stink of " it's a fact that this is happening! There is no proof but, it is a fact!"

@moose67 probably better not to derail this thread with this, but if you want an open discussion on this, open a new thread.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:07   #51
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The Federal Reserve in the USA is actually a private central bank. The name is very misleading tho. The European Central Bank is not private however, just like the Bank of England isn't private.

Still, the policy of the three is pretty much the same and very damaging to the economy. This is a problem all around the world with the FIAT-money system however and it's time that we go back on a gold-standard again.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:19   #52
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The Federal Reserve in the USA is actually a private central bank. The name is very misleading tho. The European Central Bank is not private however, just like the Bank of England isn't private..
Well the federal rfeserve system is a little more complex than the Bank of England but how you can read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System and somehow think that it means that:
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Originally Posted by moose67 View Post
I am talking about the people who are printing and issuing the currency. They are printing money interest based and lending it to our Government. All governments have the power to print and issue their own currency, interest free. Yet for some reason we are all signed on to this system that is making billions, if not trillions in profit for a small group of individuals.
is hard to say.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:32   #53
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Originally Posted by moose67 View Post
I am talking about the people who are printing and issuing the currency. They are printing money interest based and lending it to our Government. All governments have the power to print and issue their own currency, interest free. Yet for some reason we are all signed on to this system that is making billions, if not trillions in profit for a small group of individuals.
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Um? what? In England banknotes are issued by the bank of England, though seven other banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland issue notes under the supervision of the Bank of England http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/bankn...rnireland.aspx English notes are printed by De La Rue plc at the moment.

No private individuals involved there and anything else of your nonsense.

EDIT: And what on earth is "the Private Central Bank"?

I think he may be talking about this:

Bank of England (2014) “Money creation in the modern economy”

Also other links:

Bank of England (2015) “Banks are not intermediaries of loanable funds — and why this matters”

Howells, P (2009) “The Money Supply in Macroeconomics”

Due to the fact that private banks effectively create broad money through their financing activities creating deposits every time they make a loan meaning we pay interest on privately created money. This results from the nature of our fractional reserve banking system in which banks operate on a loans first model.

Sadly the operation of our current banking system leads to people who are anti corporatist donning the tinfoil hat over fractional reserve banking creating endogenous money in econ speak because it all looks dodgy to them because money creation is based on debt. Therefore they effectively argue for full reserve banking with exogenous money in wonk speak.

However full reserve banking has had advocates in history at the very top of the field of economics, Irving fisher is probably the most influential economist not many people have heard of, the main effect of which would be to eliminate the ability of banks to create money meaning central banks would be solely responsible for the quantity of money, rather than just base money.

IRVING FISHER AND THE 100 PERCENT RESERVE PROPOSAL

Although I don't know how all this relates specifically to the EU as every country in the world operates on fractional reserve banking and we would inside or out and inflation targeting means that central banks prefer to focus on controlling the price of money (interest rates) rather than controlling the quantity of money.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:33   #54
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When the central banks print money, all the existing money gets devaluated. The only people that profit from the newly printed money are those, who get to use it first, and that's usually the people playing at the stock-markets.
By the time that newly generated money trickles down to the "normal" people, it has lost a good amount of it's nominal value.
That's a general problem with the FIAT money-system that was introduced in the 70's after Nixon declared, that they no longer can back the US-Dollar with gold.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:40   #55
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:41   #56
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Ah the old problem of confusing the money supply with the printing of banknotes.

A deposits £1 and Bank B who loads 90p to C, keeping 10p in reserve. Money supply has gone up from £1 to £1.90.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:49   #57
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Ah the old problem of confusing the money supply with the printing of banknotes.

A deposits £1 and Bank B who loads 90p to C, keeping 10p in reserve. Money supply has gone up from £1 to £1.90.
Both systems should be revamped. The printing (central banks) should be backed by gold again and the supply should be backed by actually printed notes (private banks).

The current systems are a spiral down the drain.

100 years ago I could get a nice suit for an ounce of gold, which is the same today. The only thing that's changed is the nominal value of the money, which is total bollocks. An ounce of gold will never loose it's actual value instead.

I've started hoarding physical gold couple of years back instead of bringing my money to the bank, because we'll never know how much worth our money will be in a couple years to come. Also it's nice to look at a big pile of gold knowing about it's value
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 17:59   #58
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Ah the old problem of confusing the money supply with the printing of banknotes.

A deposits £1 and Bank B who loads 90p to C, keeping 10p in reserve. Money supply has gone up from £1 to £1.90.*
Not exactly because banks don't need a deposit first as the central bank will always supply the required reserves to banks because not meeting an increase in demand for reserves would mean the central bank loses control of interest rates. That is explicitly stated by the bank of England and is how all central banks in the developed world operate who target inflation using interest rates

Because banks lend first, a deposit is then created at another bank, then lent out and so on. It's a common complaint that economics textbooks talk about high powered money and deposits first models on bank lending, usually because it gets across simply how banks can create money from a deposit without including the complex explanation of how and why banks can lend first ask for deposits later.

This doesn't mean banks can do this willy nilly they have macro prudential regulation, creditworthiness of customers, liquidity, solvency, profitability etc to worry about.

a*lso in that model its new deposit divided by the reserve rate so 1/0.1= 10, so £ would turn into 10

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Old 24th Feb 2016, 18:16   #59
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Both systems should be revamped. The printing (central banks) should be backed by gold again and the supply should be backed by actually printed notes (private banks).

The current systems are a spiral down the drain.

100 years ago I could get a nice suit for an ounce of gold, which is the same today. The only thing that's changed is the nominal value of the money, which is total bollocks. An ounce of gold will never loose it's actual value instead.

I've started hoarding physical gold couple of years back instead of bringing my money to the bank, because we'll never know how much worth our money will be in a couple years to come. Also it's nice to look at a big pile of gold knowing about it's value
Oh dear, gold buggism.

The gold standard was the main reason the 1930s depression lasted so long, it means monetary policy can't even operate in a recession. One of the reasons the great depression ended was the end of the gold standard in the 1930s. Its only marginally better in 2008-now like conditions than being in the current state of the euro (if you're not germany). It's economically illiterate to want a currency without moderate inflation because that traps a country in permanent deflation/lowflation which would perma-stagnate economies

Gold has no intrinsic value, it only has value because people believe it does; mainly for "look at the shiny" reasons. How about those Yap stones, loads of commodities have been currencies in history, gold ain't special.
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Old 24th Feb 2016, 18:30   #60
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The only thing that can be seen as positive is the freedom of travelling, but that was possible for me before Schengen. I did'nt need any visa to travel to 95% of all countries in the world actually.

Freedom to live and work whereever you want in the EU is something you might see as a positive, but I don't actually. All it does is lowering the wages in general.

So yeah. That's the only two points I can think of that might be seen as a positive, which I personally don't. All the other EU-regulations have impacted Finland in a negative way as far as I see it... environmental rules and laws have made things worse here, standards for customer-safety were lowered (allowed quantities of toxins in products, etc), economic rules that actually make it harder for Finland to compete, and on, and on, and on.
Obviously how positively you view things is very subjective but there's also the cap on mobile roaming charges, compensation when flights are delayed or cancelled, the right to study in Europe, the European health insurance card, refunds when buying from other EU countries, part-time workers having the same rights as full-time workers, less polluted air, rivers and beaches.

IDK if any of those effect Finland though.
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