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View Poll Results: Should we be EU members?
In 105 64.02%
Out 44 26.83%
Shake it all about 15 9.15%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10th Jun 2016, 01:42   #21
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True, the opinion polls before the last GE were wide of the mark, even the academics such as Thrasher and Meacher were very wide with their predictions about the number of seats that labour would lose.

This is reminding me of the Scottish referendum, the Yes group were vocal giving the impression that it could be a close one but on the day it mattered, more of the quiet ones voted no. A bit early to say but I feel strongly that we'll remain.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 07:52   #22
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The problem is that if the result is remain, then all the leave bigots* will just scream "fix" as loudly as they can...

* you know, the ones who want to leave because the EU is full of foreigners who just want to steal our jobs
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 08:29   #23
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Depends on how close the vote was, I guess. In any case if Leave wins, the UK will just end up joining the EEA, and the Leavers will think that's a win because --ironically-- their own leaflets keep touting Norway and Switzerland as better models.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 09:12   #24
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I'll be the one to point this out, then.

They are trying to scare you into staying as well, or does no one see this? The UK will not be put into some book where all trade will be abolished, and nor will we lose export opportunities either. People still want/need our product as much as we want/need it from them.

I can certainly think of a better place to spend ten billion quid a year ... it starts at home, sorting out the mess that is this country, starting with the NHS, which is horribly underfunded and going down the tubes.

I mean, at the end of the day, if I could vote, I'd vote to leave. The UK needs to stop trying to be everyone's best friend by being a charity and giving to the poor, and start looking at the serious issues that MUST be addressed here before we end up like Greece. It may never get that bad, but with the way that we just **** money away into countries that are doing nothing but get more and more poor, AND with the possibility of letting Turkey into the EU... you can forget about this place being 'great' in the future. Look at the Netherlands. I lived there, and within the four years that I was there, I could see (at the age of 8 to 12) that the overall quality of the town I lived in was going downhill rapidly. Crime went through the roof, most Dutchmen left the area and it filled up with more foreigners, and it just got worse, and worse, and worse. That's not racist, it's a fact. I'm all for immigration and foreign people entering and remaining within our country, I mean ... I am a foreigner myself, but don't let it get so bad that your own people want to leave and actually want to emigrate themselves. I know there will be a few of you who just think it is racist, like those plonkers on TV who just shout the word out because they know NOTHING, but I can assure you, it is not a racial thing. It is FACT. If my grandpa were alive today, he would tell you how much he saw Holland change over the 20 something years he was around for. (He was a Dutchman, returning home.)
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 09:25   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
I can certainly think of a better place to spend ten billion quid a year ... it starts at home, sorting out the mess that is this country, starting with the NHS, which is horribly underfunded and going down the tubes.
The reason the NHS is underfunded is a CHOICE by the Torys. They could crack down on tax avoidance, but instead they chose to underfund public services until there's a case for selling them off to the highest bidder. That's the tory plan...to make this country a lot more like america so the rich can profit further.

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Old 10th Jun 2016, 09:43   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
They are trying to scare you into staying as well, or does no one see this? The UK will not be put into some book where all trade will be abolished, and nor will we lose export opportunities either. People still want/need our product as much as we want/need it from them.
Very true but it's rather naive to think trade would stop, it would simply get more expensive, some opinions estimate it would cost us an extra 15bn per year if we fell back on WTO rules, maybe we could use our 8.5bn EU membership fee to offset a part of that.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 22:09   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
I'll be the one to point this out, then.

They are trying to scare you into staying as well, or does no one see this? The UK will not be put into some book where all trade will be abolished, and nor will we lose export opportunities either. People still want/need our product as much as we want/need it from them.
As Corky42 says: trade will just become a lot more expensive. Of course the Brexit camp assiduously avoids mentioning what a Brexit would actually look like just to avoid that painful reality. Instead it prefers to daydream about what it could do with money it won't have and has no power to re-allocate anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
I can certainly think of a better place to spend ten billion quid a year ... it starts at home, sorting out the mess that is this country, starting with the NHS, which is horribly underfunded and going down the tubes.
As a NHS professional I can tell you that is entirely the UK government's deliberate choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
I mean, at the end of the day, if I could vote, I'd vote to leave. The UK needs to stop trying to be everyone's best friend by being a charity and giving to the poor, and start looking at the serious issues that MUST be addressed here before we end up like Greece. It may never get that bad, but with the way that we just **** money away into countries that are doing nothing but get more and more poor, AND with the possibility of letting Turkey into the EU... you can forget about this place being 'great' in the future.
Greece's mess is entirely their own making. Turkey has 34 conditions to meet before eligibility for EU membership. It has started working on only 14 and successfully completed one. Since 1986. And the new president is rapidly turning off the EU. Moreover all 28 member states have to unanimously agree to its accession; even one veto and the show is off. And many states besides the EU don't want Turkey in.

But please, keep swallowing the lies and not thinking for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
Look at the Netherlands. I lived there, and within the four years that I was there, I could see (at the age of 8 to 12) that the overall quality of the town I lived in was going downhill rapidly. Crime went through the roof, most Dutchmen left the area and it filled up with more foreigners, and it just got worse, and worse, and worse. That's not racist, it's a fact.
So... foreigners caused the decline of the neighbourhood before they moved in? Neat trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadDutchDude View Post
I'm all for immigration and foreign people entering and remaining within our country, I mean ... I am a foreigner myself, but don't let it get so bad that your own people want to leave and actually want to emigrate themselves. I know there will be a few of you who just think it is racist, like those plonkers on TV who just shout the word out because they know NOTHING, but I can assure you, it is not a racial thing. It is FACT. If my grandpa were alive today, he would tell you how much he saw Holland change over the 20 something years he was around for. (He was a Dutchman, returning home.)
About 200 years ago black slaves were an inferior race. It was not considered racism, just obvious scientific FACT. In Hitler Germany the Jews were considered responsible for all of Germany's economic woes. Not antisemitism, just an economic and cultural FACT. Muslims are jihadi terrorists. I mean, look at the news: FACT, right?

Pro tip: racists never think that they are racist.

Sorry, but four decades of deregulated capitalism and shrinking of public housing, education and health and social services by successive UK governments leads to an increasing rich-poor divide, unaffordable housing, cramped schools and queues in the NHS, and somehow immigrants are to blame? That is racism: the irrational scapegoating of an ethnic group for all your woes.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 22:21   #28
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Remain.

Brexit is a power grab by a bunch of self-interested career politicians out to make the best for themselves and **** the country. Brexit is white privilege racism that has somehow shambled back from the 80s. Brexit is a bunch of bullshit economics on the back of an envelope that make no sense - and when the actual experts point this out, fingers go in ears and we're told to ignore the experts and listen to a bunch of self-interested politicians who have zero qualifications in these topics.

Yeah, it's a lot more complicated than that, but that's broad brush.
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Old 11th Jun 2016, 14:40   #29
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Old 11th Jun 2016, 14:52   #30
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I'll be the 1st in the queue on the day for out the E.U.
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Old 13th Jun 2016, 22:30   #31
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Good luck with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guardian
This is the sound of Britain breaking.Here ends our “moderate, tolerant” self-image. Imagine Brexit wins and two years later prime minister Boris Johnson is still embroiled in quarrelsome EU exit talks. These Barking and Nottingham people will see no change, same migrants, same sense of powerlessness. Recession-hit, facing worse cuts, voters won’t blame themselves for their own folly. Old problems are unresolved – an economy reliant on City and property bubbles, low skills, low productivity, atrophied public services, hopes raised and dashed. Gove and Johnson risk losing control of the furies they have unleashed.

That moment is fertile for some yet-worse demagogue who calls for throwing out migrants already here. Expect the volume to be raised against “elites” – anti-parliament, anti-politics, bored of democracy itself. Ignite hatred against Europe, blame Brussels for deliberately impoverishing us in revenge, stirring centuries-old enmities.

Blend all that with a little nationalistic leftish populism, not all of it bad: nationalise our utilities and rail, eject foreign owners from key industries and property, pump up armed forces and national pride. These are potent ingredients for militant majoritarianism, blaming minorities and minority opinions. The Human Rights Act is abolished and the BBC absorbed into government. National socialism will no doubt carry a new name – but it’s there in the making.
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Old 13th Jun 2016, 22:45   #32
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Remain:

We shouldn't take our ball home just because we don't like how some of our neighbourhood kids play the game. If we do, we will be the ones sitting up in our bedroom window sulking and watching while all our friends are outside playing in the sunshine.

Or even worse, we will get sent back outside by our parents and have no-one left to play with except the kids down the road from the rough estate who play in the broken glass and know all the swear words.
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Old 13th Jun 2016, 22:49   #33
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Undecided. Lack of hard facts from either side, Alot of scare morgering has me further away from voting than ever in truth.

If I was to vote id close my eyes and mark a random box that the pen landed on at this current time.
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Old 13th Jun 2016, 23:21   #34
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Hoped the options would be in/out/shake it all about.

Voted to remain anyway purely from a humanistic "people are better working together than working apart" perspective.
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Old 13th Jun 2016, 23:57   #35
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firmly leave.
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Old 14th Jun 2016, 05:12   #36
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Old 14th Jun 2016, 07:36   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatee View Post
Remain:

We shouldn't take our ball home just because we don't like how some of our neighbourhood kids play the game. If we do, we will be the ones sitting up in our bedroom window sulking and watching while all our friends are outside playing in the sunshine.

Or even worse, we will get sent back outside by our parents and have no-one left to play with except the kids down the road from the rough estate who play in the broken glass and know all the swear words.
A good analogy.

I'm for remain.

The EU is a mess in some ways, and some of the arguments the leavers put in about them are absolutely true. Should we just up sticks and leave? No. As my father says, "It's better to be inside the train pissing out than running down the platform trying to piss in."

The Leave campaign would have much better luck if they had concrete plans for what happens when we've left, but the truth is they're bent on hope rather than actual fact. Renegotiate our trade deals with the EU? That will take years of course, and anyone still in the EU will want to make an example of us - they won't want to initiate the breakup of the EU by allowing us a decent deal, oh my no, they'll smash us with taxes that make our eyes water.

I'm not even starting on the scapegoating of immigration, such a ridiculous argument it doesn't even deserve mention.
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Old 14th Jun 2016, 08:15   #38
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Already voted to leave. Yay postal votes.

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Old 14th Jun 2016, 08:33   #39
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Ok so which mod has messed with my poll
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Old 14th Jun 2016, 09:31   #40
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