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View Poll Results: Should we be EU members?
In 105 64.02%
Out 44 26.83%
Shake it all about 15 9.15%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 24th Jun 2016, 10:49   #121
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I'm really enjoying how Sunderland were the start of the avalance that really effed up the financial landscape. I feel decidedly less 'well off' today, and I too am looking for a job. Wonderful.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 12:19   #122
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Originally Posted by rainbowbridge View Post
I am just waking up to this news. WOW.

Did we get involved in all of this stay/ leave vote purely based on the massive in flux of refugees into Europe and obviously the various high level attacks? And people got scared it would come here because of the in flux,


Other than the migrants issue was there any other stuff going on? about this that we drew up this vote? Honest question sorry I am a little isolated about news,

We shouldn't have gone to other country's and bombed them to pieces leaving them in an absolute dreadful state and not solid up those places allowing people to actually live there,

I wonder what is going to happen now, Europe is losing one of its premium nations of the pack?



Does England lose a sht ton of employment jobs now?


We need to make the best of this people... if we are going to leave we really need to start looking out to protect England's better interests.


Will check back to the thread if any one has any thing insightful,
Bit late to the party here, but I think you may have meant to say "the UK" rather than "England".
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 14:10   #123
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There is absolutely no guarantee that we will actually leave the EU. I suspect that in the next two years of negotiations that the reforms that Cameron initially promised the British people he would achieve instead of the nonsense he tried to convince us were great reforms, might well be back on the table and some sort of associate membership might be offered.

Of course if as Cameron predicted we have instead have WW3 then in or out becomes academic.
Cameron is standing down. Probably because he doesn't want the responsibility for having to unravel this cluster****.

I think that the Leavers will start finding soon that their ideas do not survive contact with reality. Farage is already backtracking... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7099906.html
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 14:15   #124
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Cameron is standing down. Probably because he doesn't want the responsibility for having to unravel this cluster****.

I think that the Leavers will start finding soon that their ideas do not survive contact with reality. Farage is already backtracking... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7099906.html
Well he think the thougth about if for 5 secs and decided that he wasn't going to sit in tedious negotiations for the next three years while bloody Boris swanned having fun.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 14:39   #125
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I think nobody with any sense would want the job. Who would want to be responsible for actually invoking Article 50? Nope, there are going to be preliminary negotiations first. Lots and lots of them. And the EU will just sit back and do nothing and give nothing and wait for the UK to realise that if it pulls the trigger on Article 50 it is effectively shooting itself in the head.

Cameron doesn't want to take the blame for that. This is Vote Leave's mess now.

And what about them? Gove has already ruled himself out as PM.

Boris Johnson is quiet on the issue, except for saying that there is no need to rush into invoking Article 50 anytime soon.

Farage has said that promising to give the weekly 350m EU membership fees to the NHS "was a mistake"; the money could not be guaranteed and he would never have made the promise in the first place..

His comments came as Dan Hannan, a Brexit-supporting Conservative MEP, suggested that Leave campaigners did not promise to "pull up the drawbridge" and warned that migration to the UK will continue despite the vote.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 14:48   #126
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 15:46   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
I think nobody with any sense would want the job. Who would want to be responsible for actually invoking Article 50? Nope, there are going to be preliminary negotiations first. Lots and lots of them. And the EU will just sit back and do nothing and give nothing and wait for the UK to realise that if it pulls the trigger on Article 50 it is effectively shooting itself in the head.

Cameron doesn't want to take the blame for that. This is Vote Leave's mess now.

And what about them? Gove has already ruled himself out as PM.

Boris Johnson is quiet on the issue, except for saying that there is no need to rush into invoking Article 50 anytime soon.

Farage has said that promising to give the weekly 350m EU membership fees to the NHS "was a mistake"; the money could not be guaranteed and he would never have made the promise in the first place..

His comments came as Dan Hannan, a Brexit-supporting Conservative MEP, suggested that Leave campaigners did not promise to "pull up the drawbridge" and warned that migration to the UK will continue despite the vote.
I would feign surprise, but honestly I'm too angry to pull it off.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:40   #128
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It is exactly what I expected. I'm just surprised that it happened so soon. Cameron's fold forced a show of cards early.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:44   #129
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His rage quit is pretty much the only thing he's ever done or said that I've been able to understand. I'd probably have done the same if I was in his shoes. Probably less charmingly.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:50   #130
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His rage quit is pretty much the only thing he's ever done or said that I've been able to understand. I'd probably have done the same if I was in his shoes. Probably less charmingly.
I don't think it's a rage quit, it's self preservation. He has an idea about the magnitude of the sh!tstorm we're going to be weathering for the next however many years and wants no part of the political suicide awaiting the person leading the government through it.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:54   #131
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Exactly. Vote Leave made all sorts of promises without having to take accountability for them. Surprise! Now they have accountability. Let's see how it feels when you have to walk the walk,not just talk the talk.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 16:57   #132
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Originally Posted by liratheal View Post
His rage quit is pretty much the only thing he's ever done or said that I've been able to understand. I'd probably have done the same if I was in his shoes. Probably less charmingly.
I'd love to think that Cameron left BoJo and Gove a note that simply said - 'This is your mess now guys... P.S. go **** yourself', knowing full well they don't have any kind of plan.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 17:05   #133
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Exactly. Vote Leave made all sorts of promises without having to take accountability for them. Surprise! Now they have accountability. Let's see how it feels when you have to walk the walk,not just talk the talk.
I notice that Boris isn't his usual jovial self today.

I wonder why?
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 17:11   #134
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He certainly is quiet. Even passed up an opportunity to make a statement this morning to the press as he left his home.

Most unlike him.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 17:15   #135
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Stolen from twitter -

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Do you know the moment in The Producers, when they realise that "Springtime for Hitler" is actually a hit? That.

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Old 24th Jun 2016, 17:40   #136
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Dear Brexiteers,

Welcome to Christmas, turkeys! Guess what's cooking?

Years from now you will recognise Leave voters in the streets by the aura of shame that hangs over them.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 18:06   #137
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I know you wanted to stay nexxo but you post some utter nonesence in these 2 topics.

Niether side provided a convincing argument 28% of people said thanks but no thanks to both sides. The people that said the markets would crash and burn and be below 5500 are now laughing there way to the bank as it stabilised above 6100 3% drop is not even the lowest drop of the year.

I voted to stay in the end but not surprised it was the other way. Take away Scotland's votes and it's a utter landslide in Leaves Favour.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 18:11   #138
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Every single person at this investment environment is in shock today. I spoke with two of the most importants, leading in fields of monetary and law. By 10am the monetary guy had already had enough, he was just laughing in disbelief, legal expert (proper 1000 an hour guy) he said by leaving, the areas the people voted to address that's not really even it, he said we already had a really great deal, basically had our cake and was eating it,

The general feedback about this by seriously intelligent people is this is a bad thing and doesn't help actually.

That's completely across the board, every serious person across several areas all said this is not correct result.


Personally there is about 25% of me that wants to see how this plays out,

We are a great nation, Westminster is going to have a lot of work ahead of it?

Interesting to see were we are by 2026,

The result is the result, we need to make this change and ideally be an even more powerful and important nation to the world.

We are going to need to bring in a whole new fresh blood to push through this, have to imagine there are people that are going to get their gravy trains cut off?

We could turn Britain into a country that every one wants to come here...suitable tax laws, benefits.

Britain has been the leading go it alone nation on earth,

@nexxo
Do you see that further country's could pull out and the EU collapses, breakup?
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 18:30   #139
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You know when a relationship comes to an end. But it was ok at times. Fun even. They really liked you, but it wasn't going to work out. It saddens you when you see them upset. That moment when you break the news to them it's over, you feel it the pit of your stomach as a horrible achey emptiness. Maybe even feel physically sick and numb. You question whether you have done the right thing.

Ideally they come running back to you saying "I'm sorry! I didn't think you were serious. I see it now. I will change. I will be better. I will give you more control over our relationship."

Best case scenario.

Worst case scenario is Farage and trader chums take over and destroy us.
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Old 24th Jun 2016, 18:54   #140
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I know you wanted to stay nexxo but you post some utter nonesence in these 2 topics.
Feel free to point out my nonsense below.

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@nexxo
Do you see that further country's could pull out and the EU collapses, breakup?
Depends on how the EU is going to play this.

It is quite obvious (if it wasn't before) that Vote Leave does not have a plan. It has already said that it will not invoke Article 50 just yet. I know people are thinking in terms of months, but I think that it will still not have happened in 2020. I think that whoever becomes PM will find that it is more complicated than they thought it was. That does not give them any negotiation advantage however, because while it does not do so the UK is still a full member of the EU with all the impositions that come with it --although its decision making powers will now be significantly reduced, and it has lost the deal Cameron managed to get (which was actually pretty good). So all the EU has to do is sit there and concede nothing in preliminary negotiations --while Article 50 is not invoked, it is holding all the cards anyway.

UKIP may wish to push the process, but I think it is finally dawning on the Brexit electorate that:
1. Farage is a lying toad
2. Brexit comes with an economic penalty.

Moreover the majority of the electorate (including Remainers and Leavers) in a poll indicated that they'd favour staying in the EEA. I think that they are suddenly not in a hurry either.

If the UK does pull the trigger on Article 50, it has a 2-year limit within which to negotiate a deal that most experts agree would probably take a decade. This is not only mission impossible but the time limit also means that it is a "wasting asset": as the clock ticks down Britain's bargaining position gets progressively weaker as it has to clinch some deal before the deadline lest it gets kicked into the WTO with no agreements at all. And don't underestimate what this means: not only tariffs on exports of goods, but also no export of services, and especially, no export or EU passporting of services --which is a major chunk of the UK economy.

So Britain's best alternative bet is to set up a lot of bilateral deals with other countries outside the EU to bolster its economic position before it invokes Article 50. But unfortunately, with a Brexit it also loses its main bargaining chip in trade deals with other nations, which was access to the entire EEA through the UK, as it is about to lose that eventually. And China has already demonstrated how it treats smaller economy nations.

All this guff about "being like Singapore" conveniently forgot that --apart from Singapore being an entrepot city state with a 50% immigrant population-- it also is a founder member of ASEAN, the East Asian version of the EU.

Now if the EU is wise, it will allow the UK a politically face-saving option that keeps it in at least the EEA. It would be a powerful message to other member states to see the UK, after all the noise and heat, compromising and possibly reconsidering on a Brexit, even if some concessions are made by the EU. This may mean some controls/limits on free movement which may be necessary anyway to stop the rot in the EU, but it would make quite a statement.

If the EU is dumb it will dig its heels in. This is bad for the UK, and ultimately also bad for the EU. I am inclined to think that politically this is what would happen because people basically are not wise, but I also suspect that ultimately, global business won't let it. So we'll probably get a combination of heat and noise covering up a pragmatic re-interpretation of EEA membership underneath.
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