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Old 19th Jun 2016, 18:01   #1
Elledan
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Living with the shame of PTSD

Long story short, in 2009 I was first diagnosed with PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) as a result of my experiences with the (Dutch) medical system, as well as a series of other most unpleasant events. Unfortunately my situation did not improve after this and after the Nth rejection and denial by a doctor something broke inside of me, causing me to black out.

I am not proud of the things my body/mind did during this blackout, nor do I agree with any of it. I really wish I could turn back time and move my silly behind to Germany or another sane country before any of those events could take place. Unfortunately that's not within my power.

After over five years of legal battles and appeals the Dutch court has uphold that I have to receive punishment for something I do not recall doing, let alone something I consciously participated in or approve of in any fashion. The main sticking point is that nobody wished to believe my psychotherapist, insisting on holding me responsible.


To me this is the horrible, shameful thing about having PTSD: from the outside nobody can tell that you are suffering from it. When you suffer a PTSD event/flashback people just think you're crazy or mentally handicapped, because no sane, normal person would respond that way.

In the end you just avoid any situation which may trigger the PTSD. Better to be seen as a loner or weird person than to have to explain PTSD and having to face the humiliation of misunderstanding and ignorance. That's what I often think, at least.

I guess people just want to think of others as perfect little people, preferring to ignore that everyone is different and broken in their own way. People with mental disorders are just too scary. Can't really change people, I guess.


Anyway, I wrote a few recent blog posts for anyone who wants to read more/cares about my story
http://mayaposch.blogspot.com/2016/0...x-time-to.html
http://mayaposch.blogspot.com/2016/0...-disorder.html


Thanks for reading and sorry for my rambling
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 16:53   #2
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So what exactly did you do and are you denying responsibility for your actions? I'm confused.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 17:00   #3
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So what exactly did you do and are you denying responsibility for your actions? I'm confused.
She states in some detail what happened in her Blog in the links
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 17:18   #4
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Sorry I did visit the blog posts but skim read it. Teach me to take my time

So you are not happy having to pay for the damage you caused because you suffer from PTSD and you caused the damage in a mental state in which you lost control? That's the impression I get. Seems like a bit of a cop out to me, if I'd damaged someone's property, in a fit state or not, I'd at least try to offer some recompense to the owner. I'd feel guilty as hell otherwise.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 18:14   #5
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Sorry I did visit the blog posts but skim read it. Teach me to take my time

So you are not happy having to pay for the damage you caused because you suffer from PTSD and you caused the damage in a mental state in which you lost control? That's the impression I get. Seems like a bit of a cop out to me, if I'd damaged someone's property, in a fit state or not, I'd at least try to offer some recompense to the owner. I'd feel guilty as hell otherwise.
You really did just skim it, no?

I lost control with a full-on blackout because of the horrendous treatment by this doctor. A previous GP in the same building had rejected me as a patient a few weeks earlier due to me being intersex. This second GP initially seemed cooperative, but then kept dragging things out. In this particular case a referral to a new specialist.

Also relevant hereby is that a few months before this happened, I had attempted suicide, which I barely survived. Emotionally I was on the edge already, and this last GP knew this, but they ignored my advice and clear warnings.

Thus the damage caused was a direct result of their actions, because they chose to treat me not as a patient, but as an annoyance, thereby further aggravating my already not quite stable emotional state.

If it helps, all other acts of violence I have shown outside of that one event were all aimed at myself. Self-mutilation and the like. For me to turn violence on other people or the possessions of others is something that's alien to me.

But as I wrote in one of those blog posts, feel free to ignore this and condemn me. I'm sure that being punished will teach me to stop suffering blackouts when I'm being pushed to the edge again.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 18:28   #6
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I did read both the posts in full after I had skimmed them. I'm not trying to condemn you at all but I am saying that if it was me I would feel obliged to offer recompense for any damage I had caused whilst in a state such as that which you have described. As I said, I would feel guilty as hell otherwise.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 20:15   #7
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I don't feel guilty at all. I just feel angry at this GP for not compensating this artist since they were at fault.

Considering the police beating and lock-up I received after the incident, I could never feel guilty about anything. I only feel stupid for not sooner realising that I would not find help in the Netherlands since it's such a closed-minded, conservative society.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 10:12   #8
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I can't imagine the stress and mental strain you were under at the time of the incident but you say you received a beating from the police. It sounds to me like they were restraining a person who was out of control. If you were resisting arrest then they are allowed and will use force to restrain you. I'm just going on what you've said about the incident in your blog. It sounds like you feel that you should not be held accountable for your actions as you were suffering from some form of blackout or something. I get that and do agree up to a point if your mental state at that time meant you genuinely lost control. From a moral perspective though, as I said if it was me I'd have offered to repay any costs of the damages I'd caused. I also get that you felt that the doctor brought it on himself by the shoddy treatment you had received, but that is not a defense for causing criminal damage (as it would be classed as here).

Regards the Netherlands and their society I genuinely thought they were quite liberal, but maybe Amsterdam made me think that. I've visited the Netherlands a lot, we used to live in Germany so making the trip was easy enough for us, but I've only ever seen it through the eyes of a tourist.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 16:45   #9
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I did not resist arrest. My mother watched the whole spectacle, but was powerless to interfere. She could only watch on as her daughter was thrown to the ground, sat on and dragged off. At no point during this did I resist, except when they put on the handcuffs so tight that it actually damaged the nerves in my wrists. The pain was incredible.

From a moral perspective the medical establishment in the Netherlands owe me more than they could ever hope to pay me back. They practically destroyed my life.

But it seems you are in the majority anyway, with how you feel that me being punished and having to feel guilty about it is the right way. It just shows how fundamental the gap is between reality and the way most people think.

It's no wonder that mental health is always ignored in public discussions. We freaks are just trying to game the system with our sob stories.

http://mayaposch.blogspot.de/2011/05...h-further.html
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 17:22   #10
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Firstly, I am not trying to play down or ignore mental health or the issues it presents to those who suffer from mental health issues. I am fully aware of the seriousness of the topic. In terms of PTSD, I come from a military family so I have personal experience of family members who have suffered and do suffer as a result of PTSD and these are close relatives so I've felt the suffering to some degree too at certain points. I do want to clear that up.

Secondly, I'm not saying nor have I said that you should be punished for your actions. I have said and will say again that if I had caused criminal damage I would feel obliged to pay for any damage, whether or not I was in a fit state or not at the time I caused the damage. That would be irrespective of how I felt about the owner of said property or whatever problems lead to me causing the damage. I guess that's a personal choice though. You say you don't feel you should have to pay for the damage, that's your choice. I'm not saying you are wrong for that, I am saying how I'd feel if it was me.

Thirdly, I'm not trying to excuse the police if they used excessive force when arresting you if that is what happened. I'm not trying to say it wasn't the case I just suggested that it if you did resist then the injuries you sustained could be attributed to that.

As for the freak comment, that was your choice of word not mine and it's not a word I would use to describe anyone either.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 17:33   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StingLikeABee View Post
Firstly, I am not trying to play down or ignore mental health or the issues it presents to those who suffer from mental health issues. I am fully aware of the seriousness of the topic. In terms of PTSD, I come from a military family so I have personal experience of family members who have suffered and do suffer as a result of PTSD and these are close relatives so I've felt the suffering to some degree too at certain points. I do want to clear that up.

Secondly, I'm not saying nor have I said that you should be punished for your actions. I have said and will say again that if I had caused criminal damage I would feel obliged to pay for any damage, whether or not I was in a fit state or not at the time I caused the damage. That would be irrespective of how I felt about the owner of said property or whatever problems lead to me causing the damage. I guess that's a personal choice though. You say you don't feel you should have to pay for the damage, that's your choice. I'm not saying you are wrong for that, I am saying how I'd feel if it was me.

Thirdly, I'm not trying to excuse the police if they used excessive force when arresting you if that is what happened. I'm not trying to say it wasn't the case I just suggested that it if you did resist then the injuries you sustained could be attributed to that.

As for the freak comment, that was your choice of word not mine and it's not a word I would use to describe anyone either.
StingsLikeABee - just as a friendly comment, I think your general style of post comes across as quite confrontational, and I generally got the same from your post as the OP. It's also been noted in the EU thread - I'm just suggesting you perhaps be a little more measured in your posting. Thanks.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 17:35   #12
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Are you joking or what? Seriously, I was genuinely interested and trying to have a conversation. This post now is definitely confrontational because I feel I've been confronted over a non issue here. Geez!!

As for the EU thread, I would gladly admit I was confrontational, but I certainly wasn't on my own there either. Have you given a friendly comment to your buddies over that?
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 17:53   #13
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Without having all the facts, I can't comment on the whys and wherefores of what happened in the Doctor's surgery. However, I do hope that you are now receiving medical care that you're happier with, and can move on from what must have been a very traumatic experience.

PS I've been sat on by the Police too. It wasn't very nice then (25 years ago) and they're a lot fatter these days!
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Old 26th Jun 2016, 18:10   #14
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Without having all the facts, I can't comment on the whys and wherefores of what happened in the Doctor's surgery. However, I do hope that you are now receiving medical care that you're happier with, and can move on from what must have been a very traumatic experience.

PS I've been sat on by the Police too. It wasn't very nice then (25 years ago) and they're a lot fatter these days!
Yeah, the best decision I made (in 2013) was to move to Germany. Unlike in the Netherlands here they do not deny my intersex condition and I'm getting both psychological as well as medical help. Later this year I hope to have final reconstructive surgery after which I can hopefully begin to put this all behind me.

At this point it's just rather unpleasant to relive those experiences, so many years ago, and also have to pay thousands of Euros as punishment, for something which I cannot remember doing, as a result of the Dutch court system not accepting the testimony of my psychotherapist (who had been treating me for over three years at that point already...).

Next month I'll be forced to transfer said punishment money and that will hopefully be the end of that nightmare. Thanks to the crowdfunding campaign I set up I have had quite a few people pitch in so that about half of the amount is covered already. That's a big psychological support.


And yes, police officers are heavy =/ Also heavy-handed. If you read through that last blog post I linked in this thread you can see the bruising. On top of that I had severe bruising of my head (getting bashed into car doors or something), bruised bone in my right knee, peripheral neuropathy (damaged nerves) and swollen limbs and joints for weeks.

The thought that if I'm pushed too far again by others this could happen again without me having any control over it is frightening. Hopefully it won't ever come to that again
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