bit-tech.net

Go Back   bit-tech.net Forums > Misc > General

Reply
 
Thread Tools View Mode
Old 21st Mar 2017, 02:11   #1
Zoon
Hunting Wabbits since the 80s
 
Zoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Somewhere near a dremel in Bristol
Posts: 3,624
Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.
BT Openreach is recruiting trainee engineers, paying 20k to start +London weighting

Some of you will remember that I've been canvassing for job opportunities before; well I've moved to BT now, and that brings an entirely different scale of recruitment!

Openreach are recruiting trainees. In fact, 1500 engineers over the next 12 months or so. There's going to be around 60 vacancies each week, and many of these will be in your local area.

There's great perks to working for BT, not least BT mobile is massively discounted, Infinity is free, BT TV and BT Sport are discounted to almost nothing too, and the pension is fantastic. Outside that, they're also paying 20k a year which for those of you college leavers over the next 6 months would present quite an opportunity. You'll also get industry standard qualifications.

To qualify you just need to be interested, and you need a driving license with less than six points. Oh and it won't hurt if you like the great outdoors, and don't mind climbing a couple telegraph poles

The full information is available here http://btplc.com/Careercentre/career...eers/index.htm

At the top right click to "Search all jobs" to see what's in your area and apply. If anyone does look to apply, when you go into the system there might be an opportunity to note who referred you. I'd appreciate if you mention me (PM me for human details) but don't feel you have to. I just want to spread the news about the opportunity!
__________________
Datacentre architect and engineer extraordinaire. On my good days.

Click me for a signup bonus on TopCashBack. Got any car or home insurance coming up soon? I got 65 cashback on the two last year

Last edited by Zoon; 21st Mar 2017 at 02:18.
Zoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 08:55   #2
mrlongbeard
Ultramodder
 
mrlongbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1,235
mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.
Hmmmm, interesting, I might have to have a sit down and see if I can afford a pay cut
mrlongbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 09:14   #3
Wakka
Yo, eat this, ya?
 
Wakka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Besaid
Posts: 223
Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.
If my experience of Openreach engineers is anything to go by recently, I hope they are ramping up their training program...

Also, will these be the first of the solely Openreach trainees? (as apposed to BT Openreach)
__________________
Intel i7 6700 - MSI Z170A Krait - 16GB Kingston HyperX 2666 - MSI GTX 1080 Aero OC - 500GB Samsung 850 EVO - Corsair AX750 - Phanteks P400
Acer Predator XB271H - Corsair K65 / M65 / Void Wireless / MM300
Wakka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 10:20   #4
Digi
The not-so-funny Cockney
 
Digi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SE London
Posts: 1,566
Digi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming SaiyanDigi is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Very tempting. My dads worked for BT for 38 years or so, I'm well tempted to get in the same field.

I'm 32 with 14 years experience in IT support and a bit of electrical. Would I be classed as over-qualified and skipped over?
__________________
i5 4690k / Asus Z97I-PLUS Mitx / EVGA GTX 670 2gb SC / 8gb Corsair Veng 1866 / 250gb Samsung Evo / EVGA 550W GS Modular / Corsair Obsidian 250D / 2TB Samsung HDD


A member of a mystical group of master-gamers. Find them hiding at www.tunedgaming.co.uk
Digi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 10:24   #5
Mister_Tad
Moderator
Modaretor
Moderator
 
Mister_Tad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 10,600
Mister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming SaiyanMister_Tad is a Super Spamming Saiyan
If I apply and I'm successful, can I get FTTC installed on my street, since BT apparently entirely forgot about it when they were doing the entire surrounding area - leaving me stuck with 3Mbit whilst everyone else on the next streets over enjoys fibre?
__________________
Dell XPS15 9560 | i7-7700HQ | 32GB DDR4 | GTX1050 | 1TB NVMe | 97WHr | 4K IGZO Touch | Philips 328P 32" 4K | W10 Pro
HP Microserver G8 | Xeon E3-1265Lv2 | 16GB DDR3 12800E | 120GB 840 EVO | HP P222 512MB FBWC | 4x 4TB WD Red | W2016 Std
Mister_Tad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 11:39   #6
edzieba
Virtual Realist
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,759
edzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi View Post
Very tempting. My dads worked for BT for 38 years or so, I'm well tempted to get in the same field.

I'm 32 with 14 years experience in IT support and a bit of electrical. Would I be classed as over-qualified and skipped over?
Similar situation here. I could take the pay cut to get out of the desk job, but it'd be a real pain to go through the whole process just to get a 'sorry, overqualified'.
Doesn't look like the roles are live yet, though.
edzieba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 11:58   #7
Wakka
Yo, eat this, ya?
 
Wakka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Besaid
Posts: 223
Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.Wakka is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edzieba View Post
Similar situation here. I could take the pay cut to get out of the desk job, but it'd be a real pain to go through the whole process just to get a 'sorry, overqualified'.
Doesn't look like the roles are live yet, though.
Don't knock the desk job. Trust me, I spent the best part of 10 years working in the great outdoors - a couple of winters of not feeling your fingers or toes, getting saturated on a daily basis and ending the working day covered in dirt and grime that only seems to fully come off on your pillow cases and the novelty wares off.

Might just be me, but i'm much happier being indoors, with permanent access to a proper toilet, food and drink facilities and air conditioning.
__________________
Intel i7 6700 - MSI Z170A Krait - 16GB Kingston HyperX 2666 - MSI GTX 1080 Aero OC - 500GB Samsung 850 EVO - Corsair AX750 - Phanteks P400
Acer Predator XB271H - Corsair K65 / M65 / Void Wireless / MM300
Wakka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 12:34   #8
Kronos
Another grumpy old git.
 
Kronos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 11,919
Kronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming SaiyanKronos is a Super Spamming Saiyan
From a man who worked most of his life in the great outdoors I would say it is not all it is cracked up to be especially in the winter.
At 63 I have so many aches and pains which are a direct legacy of working outdoors I would not recommend it. If it is only a part of your job then fine but if it is the bulk then avoid.
when I was young and working in the sun, wind rain and snow I laughed at those who said that that I woul;d reap the painful rewards of an outdoor and very physical working environment, who's laughing now, not me? And I did not earn 20K.
__________________
Carbide 240/Asus Z170M plus/I5 6600K @ 4.6Ghz/Avexir Core Blue Series 16GB /AXP 200 Muscle /Gigabyte FE 1080/500Gb OCZ TR150 SSD/2 x 25Gb SSD/ 2TB HDD/ SST-ST60F-P PSU/Dell U3415/CM TK White (browns)/Logitech G400s/.
Silverstone GD05B/ MSI B751A-E33/G840/2x2GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3 Red LED/GTX 260/Kingston 60GB/500GB WD/Corsair CX500/Dell U2711/ E Element Chroma KB /Logitech M518.
Kronos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 12:48   #9
goldstar0011
Mod Master
 
goldstar0011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rochdale
Posts: 2,728
goldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyan
hummmm..... I have a desk job working with food, it's not helping my health!
I love tech and that stuff, some ISP experience.

Time for some pondering
goldstar0011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 19:31   #10
Zoon
Hunting Wabbits since the 80s
 
Zoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Somewhere near a dremel in Bristol
Posts: 3,624
Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlongbeard View Post
Hmmmm, interesting, I might have to have a sit down and see if I can afford a pay cut
Goes up to 25k in year 2 which can't be too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakka View Post
If my experience of Openreach engineers is anything to go by recently, I hope they are ramping up their training program...

Also, will these be the first of the solely Openreach trainees? (as apposed to BT Openreach)
Some engineers will later in the year I'm sure, but it's going to be a few months before Openreach becomes a wholly owned subisidiary opposed to a Line Of Business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digi View Post
Very tempting. My dads worked for BT for 38 years or so, I'm well tempted to get in the same field.

I'm 32 with 14 years experience in IT support and a bit of electrical. Would I be classed as over-qualified and skipped over?
I doubt it, in fact it might even help you. There's internal people of all ages in call centres and admin positions all asking about how to apply on the intranet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Tad View Post
If I apply and I'm successful, can I get FTTC installed on my street, since BT apparently entirely forgot about it when they were doing the entire surrounding area - leaving me stuck with 3Mbit whilst everyone else on the next streets over enjoys fibre?
Now there's an
Quote:
Originally Posted by edzieba View Post
Similar situation here. I could take the pay cut to get out of the desk job, but it'd be a real pain to go through the whole process just to get a 'sorry, overqualified'.
Doesn't look like the roles are live yet, though.
They are live? On http://btplc.com/Careercentre/career...eers/index.htm scroll down to section "5 Decision" drop in the first part of a post code and you'll get it come up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldstar0011 View Post
hummmm..... I have a desk job working with food, it's not helping my health!
I love tech and that stuff, some ISP experience.

Time for some pondering
You'll be the traditional Openreach engineer who will be climbing up poles, installing phone lines, fixing line faults. You'll be able to learn fibre splicing and do pit work as well, all sorts.

Importantly for everyone to note: this isn't an apprentice role, it's a trainee role. At the end of the first year you get a certification which is portable and you're now a (admittedly junior) certified telecoms engineer. No apprentice joke wages, this is a step into a real career with a company which is basically secure: no matter what happens to BT as a whole, Openreach owning such a huge majority of the last mile means it'll never be allowed to fail, and there'll always need to be engineers to fix it.
__________________
Datacentre architect and engineer extraordinaire. On my good days.

Click me for a signup bonus on TopCashBack. Got any car or home insurance coming up soon? I got 65 cashback on the two last year

Last edited by Zoon; 21st Mar 2017 at 19:37.
Zoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 21:23   #11
mrlongbeard
Ultramodder
 
mrlongbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1,235
mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoon View Post
Goes up to 25k in year 2 which can't be too bad.
OTE is 25k, not the basic wage.....
mrlongbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 21:26   #12
mrlongbeard
Ultramodder
 
mrlongbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1,235
mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.mrlongbeard is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldstar0011 View Post
hummmm..... I have a desk job working with food, it's not helping my health!
I love tech and that stuff, some ISP experience.

Time for some pondering
Review on glassdoor mentions a weight limit for the safety harnesses, I don't know you or your size ( and I don't really wanna either ) but you might want to check it.
mrlongbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 21:45   #13
RedFlames
...is a figment of your imagination
 
RedFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The northern wastes of Geordieland
Posts: 6,982
RedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming SaiyanRedFlames is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Heights... potential weight limit... requires driving license...

...bugger.
__________________
Why are you still reading this? The post is over. Go Home.

RedFlames is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 21:55   #14
goldstar0011
Mod Master
 
goldstar0011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rochdale
Posts: 2,728
goldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyangoldstar0011 is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlongbeard View Post
Review on glassdoor mentions a weight limit for the safety harnesses, I don't know you or your size ( and I don't really wanna either ) but you might want to check it.
ha, I've not been there long enough to be as weighty as the lifers!!
goldstar0011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Mar 2017, 22:22   #15
Zoon
Hunting Wabbits since the 80s
 
Zoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Somewhere near a dremel in Bristol
Posts: 3,624
Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlongbeard View Post
OTE is 25k, not the basic wage.....
Yes very true, 22933 is the basic wage with 10% OTE.

Quote:
On completion of a successful first year this will increase to 22,933 plus a 10% on-target bonus leading to on target earnings (OTE) of 25,226
__________________
Datacentre architect and engineer extraordinaire. On my good days.

Click me for a signup bonus on TopCashBack. Got any car or home insurance coming up soon? I got 65 cashback on the two last year
Zoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Mar 2017, 11:58   #16
edzieba
Virtual Realist
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,759
edzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyanedzieba is a Super Spamming Saiyan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoon View Post
You'll be the traditional Openreach engineer who will be climbing up poles, installing phone lines, fixing line faults. You'll be able to learn fibre splicing and do pit work as well, all sorts.
Don't suppose an existing CNCI (copper + fibre) & Fluke cert would be a leg-up? Or do they want to do their own "the BT/Openreach Way" training?
edzieba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Mar 2017, 17:09   #17
Zoon
Hunting Wabbits since the 80s
 
Zoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Somewhere near a dremel in Bristol
Posts: 3,624
Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edzieba View Post
Don't suppose an existing CNCI (copper + fibre) & Fluke cert would be a leg-up? Or do they want to do their own "the BT/Openreach Way" training?
I honestly don't know what the certification path will eventually get you but I'm sure things like that will apply to some of the roles.

Openreach also has a Cisco/Network field engineering group so stuff like that would apply there definitely.
__________________
Datacentre architect and engineer extraordinaire. On my good days.

Click me for a signup bonus on TopCashBack. Got any car or home insurance coming up soon? I got 65 cashback on the two last year
Zoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Mar 2017, 02:35   #18
Evolutionsic
Gives credit where its due
 
Evolutionsic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Devon, Plymouth
Posts: 2,880
Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.Evolutionsic is definitely a rep cheat.
My long term goal is to become a broadband engineer doing installs etc, Any ideas on how i can increase my changes rather than just applying? And making my CV look clean? Anybody? Anyone?!

Would searching for current employees on linked in and asking for advice or would that be too intrusive?

I honestly probably don’t even get past the “Online Questionnaire part” /facepalm.
__________________
Loose lips sink ships
Evolutionsic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Mar 2017, 08:47   #19
Zoon
Hunting Wabbits since the 80s
 
Zoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Somewhere near a dremel in Bristol
Posts: 3,624
Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.Zoon is definitely a rep cheat.
Well if that's what you want that will be one of your responsibilities with this role. You'd be installing phone and broadband when it's on simultaneous provide. You might not be doing broadband only installs, I'm not sure about that.

Read the website carefully as it tells you what the application process is like. And as they are recruiting for a full year don't worry if it takes a few cycles. You just need to be well presented and customer focused with a great customer manner, and keen to learn. You ought to be fine in other words.
__________________
Datacentre architect and engineer extraordinaire. On my good days.

Click me for a signup bonus on TopCashBack. Got any car or home insurance coming up soon? I got 65 cashback on the two last year
Zoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
View Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:50.
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.