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Old 12th May 2017, 13:55   #7621
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That's good to know as every time i heard someone on TV saying she need a strong mandate to take to Brussels i kept thinking if i wasn't seeing the bigger picture or if the people saying it didn't realise it was only intended to quell Conservative party infighting.
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Old 12th May 2017, 19:32   #7622
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David Cameron stated that it was to allow Theresa May the manoeuvring room to negotiate a soft Brexit. Theresa May bristled in response and said it was to be in a stronger negotiating position. Didn't say how, of course.

But people be stupid; they are buying her BS.
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Old 12th May 2017, 20:25   #7623
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
But people be stupid; they are buying her BS.
Just thought I'd drop this in here

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Old 13th May 2017, 01:29   #7624
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Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
"The man who laughs has simply not yet had the terrible news" --Bertolt Brecht
Remeber to save the quote for the next election too.


Quote:
Better not, because there's a point to people understanding that they pay NI, and what for.

The Conservatives have floater the idea before that NI and taxes should be merged. This causes people to lose sight of the fact that part of what they pay is supposed to be health and social care insurance, and pension contributions. Next, NI contributions are stealthily subsumed into other governmental spends.
But they are long lost in the tax take. There is no hypothecation of NI and it's origins as an "insurance" payment are long lost. After all you do get the same heath care and benefits regardless of what NI you have paid.

What is left is just a way of confusing people about their taxes. If if comes out of the payroll and ends up in general government revenue it is an income tax. The question is can you justify the additional administration costs of this complexity just by the hope that the confusion makes it a bit easier to raise tax from the ill informed.

If you want a simple example of how dumb NI is look on the HMRC site for the thresholds table:
Code:
Class 1 National Insurance thresholds	2017 to 2018
Lower Earnings Limit (LEL)	113 per week
490 per month
5,876 per year
Primary Threshold (PT)	157 per week
680 per month
8,164 per year
Secondary Threshold (ST)	157 per week
680 per month
8,164 per year
Upper Secondary Threshold (under 21) (UST)	866 per week
3,750 per month
45,000 per year
Apprentice Upper Secondary Threshold (apprentice under 25) (AUST)	866 per week
3,750 per month
45,000 per year
Upper Earnings Limit (UEL)	866 per week
3,750 per month
45,000 per year
Clear?

Well would it help if you saw the rates:
Code:
National Insurance category letter	Earnings at or above LEL up to and including PT	Earnings above the PT up to and including UEL	Balance of earnings above UEL
A	0%	12%	2%
B	0%	5.85%	2%
C	NIL	NIL	NIL
H (Apprentice under 25)	0%	12%	2%
J	0%	2%	2%
M (under 21)	0%	12%	2%
Z (under 21 - deferment)	0%	2%	2%
Not forgetting employers contributions ( the tax to incentivise employers to spend less on staffing)/
Code:
National Insurance category letter	Earnings at or above LEL up to and including ST	Earnings above ST up to and including UEL/UST/AUST	Balance of earnings above UEL/UST/AUST
A	0%	13.80%	13.80%
B	0%	13.80%	13.80 %
C	0%	13.80%	13.80%
H (Apprentice under 25)	0%	0%	13.80%
J	0%	13.80%	13.80%
M (under 21)	0%	0%	13.80%
Z (under 21 - deferment)	0%	0%	13.80%
Better?

Well the comical thing is that if you are paid 150 a week by each of three employers neither you or your employer pays any NI, but if you are paid 450 by one you pay 12% on 293 and your employer pays another 13.8%.

It's a mess for no clear reason, makes more work for small employers and makes it harder for people to understand what they are paying in tax.




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Old 13th May 2017, 08:06   #7625
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Just thought I'd drop this in here
Is it safe to assume that you believe it's Nexxo and myself who are the stupid ones?

I'm willing to entertain that idea but i would love for someone to explain to me how Theresa May and a large majority of Conservatives in the UK parliament helps when it comes to negotiating Brexit, isn't the EU just going to point to the result of the referendum and say 3.8% isn't a strong mandate.
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Old 13th May 2017, 08:23   #7626
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Old 13th May 2017, 08:28   #7627
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But they are long lost in the tax take. There is no hypothecation of NI and it's origins as an "insurance" payment are long lost. After all you do get the same heath care and benefits regardless of what NI you have paid.

What is left is just a way of confusing people about their taxes. If if comes out of the payroll and ends up in general government revenue it is an income tax. The question is can you justify the additional administration costs of this complexity just by the hope that the confusion makes it a bit easier to raise tax from the ill informed.
That's not the point. The point is that people need to be reminded of the fact that their taxes are supposed to provide health and social security for them.

Quote:
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Yeah, I took one day off work, and the NHS manages to get itself hacked...
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Old 13th May 2017, 08:33   #7628
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Is it safe to assume that you believe it's Nexxo and myself who are the stupid ones?

I'm willing to entertain that idea but i would love for someone to explain to me how Theresa May and a large majority of Conservatives in the UK parliament helps when it comes to negotiating Brexit, isn't the EU just going to point to the result of the referendum and say 3.8% isn't a strong mandate.
Stuartpb doesn't have any explanations. He has so admitted. That is why he throws insults instead. It's a standard Brexiteer tactic.

I think that the EU doesn't even care about the size of the mandate. It has accepted since last September that UK is leaving, and has already determined how that process will work and what the outcome will be (and that it will be lose-lose for everybody). The only country that is not with the programme yet is the UK.
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Old 13th May 2017, 09:39   #7629
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The EU has determined how the EU wants the process to be,as the entire process is not defined anywhere. That is the issue with May , as she wants the process to be different. Both sides already have an agenda and the outcome they want, and the rhetoric is doing no one any good.
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Old 13th May 2017, 09:46   #7630
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Read an interview with an English student in Paris studying for a double masters with the hope of working for the EU; at a recent jobs faire she was point blank told she had to move to France and become a citizen as the EU would not employ her as a British citizen.
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Old 13th May 2017, 09:47   #7631
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The EU has determined how the EU wants the process to be,as the entire process is not defined anywhere. That is the issue with May , as she wants the process to be different. Both sides already have an agenda and the outcome they want, and the rhetoric is doing no one any good.
The rhetoric is irrelevant. It's just playing to the home crowd. Both sides already know what the outcome is going to be, because it can't be anything else. The only difference is that the EU has already accepted the consequences while the UK is still trying to work out how to limit the damage and make it look like a victory at home.

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Read an interview with an English student in Paris studying for a double masters with the hope of working for the EU; at a recent jobs faire she was point blank told she had to move to France and become a citizen as the EU would not employ her as a British citizen.
I find that I can't get a job at the Department for exiting the EU either. Neither can I get a job as an FBI agent unless I am American.

Especially considering that the future reciprocal status of EU citizens living and working in the UK and of UK citizens living and working in the EU is totally up in the air, how is this even a surprise? As Leavers are so fond of saying: Out means OUT. What did you think OUT means?

As I said: the only country that still doesn't seem to be with the programme is the UK, which considering it was the one that decided to leave, is bloody ridiculous.
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Old 13th May 2017, 11:54   #7632
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Without the proper patch installed all newer versions of Windows are vulnerable as well.

The far bigger issue in my opinion is that the malware allegedly used a vulnerability the NSA had found long ago, but only alerted Microsoft about it after it had inevitably leaked and despite all that our lovely government will demand even more security holes to be poked in software.
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Old 13th May 2017, 12:18   #7633
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No, the far bigger issue was that NHS is running Windows XP, without extra support contract (mentioned above), without patches etc.
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Old 13th May 2017, 13:03   #7634
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No, the far bigger issue was that NHS is running Windows XP, without extra support contract (mentioned above), without patches etc.
I'm not disputing that it is bad for anyone to still be using an antique software like XP.

But keep in mind that the patch for newer windows versions was only released in march 2017 and given the importance of the NHS they most likely wouldn't have had the patch installed yet if they had been on a newer version of Windows as with systems that critical it takes weeks of validation before rolling out an update to avoid any unintended consequences of updating.

But the real problem is that those who oppose all the government backdoors and government hacking where 100% spot on with their warnings that it was inevitable that those tools would inevitably fall into the wrong hands and get abused.

And to push it into humanity is doomed territory we have the UK government as one of the worst offenders when it comes to government backdoors and government hacking and will beyond any doubt push for even more of it, which will enable even worse attacks.
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Old 13th May 2017, 13:42   #7635
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Once we're rid of those meddling EU bureaucrats we can ban encryption, no encryption, no ransomware.
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Old 13th May 2017, 14:19   #7636
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Old 13th May 2017, 14:41   #7637
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Once we're rid of those meddling EU bureaucrats we can ban encryption, no encryption, no ransomware.
We could also ban poverty, disease and death
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Old 13th May 2017, 14:45   #7638
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Yeah, 'cause it's immigrants causing all that stuff, right? So once the UK gets rid of immigrants, it'll get rid of poverty, disease and death. And crime. And queues. And bad weather.
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Old 13th May 2017, 14:56   #7639
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Yeah, 'cause it's immigrants causing all that stuff, right? So once the UK gets rid of immigrants, it'll get rid of poverty, disease and death. And crime. And queues. And bad weather.
and obesity and bad teeth....
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Old 13th May 2017, 15:00   #7640
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