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Other FBI not happy about new cellphones with data privacy

Discussion in 'General' started by Umbra, 28 Sep 2014.

  1. Umbra

    Umbra What's a Dremel?

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    Source: AP

    Jeez, what a slimeball James Comey sounds like,
    sounds like some pathetic, cringing crap from Highway to Heaven.

    What a surprise :rolleyes:


    But it's OK for the security services to ignore privacy laws (joke) and place themselves above the law.

    Personally, I think companies claiming smartphone encryption so secure that law enforcement officials cannot easily gain access to information are simply using that approach as a sales gimmick, a lot of people will like the idea of such privacy but these companies will quickly cave into the security services, that's assuming they ever really opposed them.


    'Scareorrists don't scare me!'
     
  2. oasked

    oasked Stuck in (better) mud

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    If the FBI doesn't have a backdoor already in the software (which they will do) then they'll get one soon enough. There is no way that Google / Apple / Microsoft will be allowed to not stick one in.
     
  3. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    Exactly.

    And not just because of the FBI, no backdoor would also mean they would be unable to comply with any court order to hand over data, which would have very severe consequences for them.
     
  4. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Surely you can hand over whatever data is required. Just because its inconveniently encrypted wouldn't prevent them from complying.
     
  5. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    They might get away with it on that technicality in some countries, but for example in the UK it would never work.
     
  6. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Without a law specifically saying that you can't store data that you cannot decrypt(which itself would be crazy eg. I store an encrypted container on dropbox) . I don't see what a law agency could do.
     
  7. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law
     
  8. TheBlackSwordsMan

    TheBlackSwordsMan Over the Hills and Far Away

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    I don't think the FBI care much about your the erotic pictures you sent to your wife while working :-/ If there is nothing illegal on your phone, why would you care if the authorities take a look? If they can catch pedophiles and other assholes, then why the fk not?
     
  9. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Yes, but that only applies if you have the key. If I encrypt something then put it on dropbox then some law enforcement want my data are dropbox going to get into trouble because they can't decrypt it? No. They don't have the key. They can't decrypt it. They are not braking the law. The same applies to anyone else who stores information and doesn't have the key.
     
  10. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    That's exactly the point. Apple are on record as saying that this new security method removes any backdoors because Apple don't have the key or any record of it any time. If a court comes to them they'll hand over the (encyrpted) data, but the responsibility for giving them the key switches to the owner of the data.

    It won't stop the NSA/GCHQ listening to your phone calls mind.

    http://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/25/rbi-concerned-with-apple-encryption/
     
  11. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Exactly, and that is the way it should be. The onus is on law enforcement to do their own dirty work.
     
  12. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    Which would mean the owner of the data would need to have access to the key though, or they would be systematically preventing people from complying with the law.
    And how are they going to do that? shove a popup in your face every time the phone rings?
     
  13. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    It places the onus on the law enforcement to prove a case to the judge, who then threatens the user with the full weight of the law if they don't give up their password. Ergo, if an individual really really doesn't want to reveal their data they can do so, but probably end up in jail.

    The key is your password, namely the four digit code you use to lock your phone if you're an idiot, or the alphanumeric password you should have set it to. Apple aren't preventing you from complying from the law in the slightest - the user is the one who decides whether to give law enforcement their password or not.
     
  14. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    The average iPhone user doesn't even know how to remove a U2 album from their phone, so I doubt any serious number of phones has a password more complex than 0000 or 1111 and thats the ones who even have a password in the first place.
    So I doubt they would rely on the phones user password for encryption, unless of course they are fine with that encryption being a total sham in most cases.
     
  15. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    The owner of the data does have access to the key (password). Apple don't. Cei's previous post outlines the whole process fairly well
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2014
  16. Umbra

    Umbra What's a Dremel?

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    Then you won't mind me coming round to to your house to search through your bedroom drawers, all your personal documents, photographs, letters, medicine cabinet, in fact anything I want to look at, after which I'll then install a CCTV camera in every room in your house." After all, you've said you have nothing to hide!

    It's obviously not just about phone privacy.

    What's the Fourth Amendment?

    It's the part of the Constitution that keeps the government from invading your privacy. If the police or the IRS wants to search your home or postal mail, they need a good reason, and a warrant from a judge.

    So what’s the problem?

    Under a law passed in 1986 known as the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, or ECPA, the government claims it doesn't need a warrant to search stuff you store online, including email and documents in the cloud. This violates our Fourth Amendment rights.

    Our Rights Weren't Meant To Vanish.

    The government needs a warrant to get our postal mail and files we store in our desks. But ECPA says a warrant isn't required for email or documents in the cloud. As our world becomes increasingly digital, our privacy rights shouldn't vanish. The law needs to evolve with technology.

    A Lot Has Changed Since ECPA Passed in 1986.

    In 1986, people didn't store much online. But now, more and more of our personal information and communications are going online. Almost everyone stores years' worth of email, along with private photos and documents. We have to act now to urge Congress to protect this information, or government agents will have access to our private communications without a warrant.

    There's some excellent articles written by some very knowledgeable people here if you want to understand why saying 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' is not a valid argument.
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2014
    Corky42 likes this.
  17. Xir

    Xir Modder

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    What Judge? A small customs guy with a big cap is all it needs.
    The americans don't let you enter the country without allowing acces to your notebook at the border.
    Our company laptops are encrypted as standart and we've got official order to simply give away the password to border patrol :grr:
     
  18. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Thats the reason I dont travel with a laptop abroad as you can stick what you need on usb sticks instead. Apple / Google / MS should take a stand agaist them, Apple forces you to set a password on newer iphones these days, Its harder to skip the process than it is to set one.

    Apple no longer have access to your data on your phone these days.

    Americas law is alot different to the rest of the world as last I checked they are still operating on the carte blance that Bill Clinton give them after September 11th.
     
  19. B1GBUD

    B1GBUD ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Accidentally Funny

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    Think that might have been George W. Bush.....
     
  20. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

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    TSA will want to clone your USB stick too.

    Encrypt your data onto an SD card, and carry it through Customs inside your camera.
    TSA won't look twice at that!
     

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