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Education Defibrillator for the home

Discussion in 'General' started by Yadda, 3 Oct 2016.

  1. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    I had a scare yesterday involving an elderly relative with a long-standing heart condition (cardiac myopathy). Thankfully, after a trip to OOH and an overnight stay in the local hospital, her heart rhythm & pulse rate stabilised and she was discharged today.

    I want to be prepared if it, or something worse, happens again.

    Can anyone with experience of this kind of thing offer any advice on what kit (& training if necessary) is recommended for use in the home by a layperson?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: 3 Oct 2016
  2. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    IIRC you have to be certified to use a defib [as you can potentially kill someone if you do it wrong]...

    St Johns Ambulance provide such training/certification...

    As to if or how you could buy a defib unit for their house... that i couldn't say...
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I'd talk to her cardiac consultant for advice on the home management of this condition.
     
  4. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Thanks Red. I'll look into the StJA courses.
     
  5. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    I spoke to the cardiac Doctor who assessed her yesterday. He confidently blamed a magnesium deficiency, caused by one of the meds she has been prescribed for heartburn interacting with one of her other meds. He said all will be well once she stops taking it.

    However, she was later told by another cardiac Doctor (when I wasn't present) that magnesium deficiency probably was NOT the cause and it could happen again at any time.

    The advice was very generic, as you'd expect for a heart problem: avoid stress, avoid over-excercise, eat healthily etc.

    I'm sure there must be more I can do to prepare.
     
  6. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    A defib isn't a magic bullet for cardiac conditions. They can only be used in very specific rhythms (namely VF, pulseless VT) and as such, sticking on one somebody isn't a guaranteed winner. Hypomagnesia, for example, causes tachycardia and T-wave tenting or T-wave suppression. Which isn't a shockable rhythm.

    Basically, I'm saying that a defib isn't the fix here. The advice given, although generic, is what works. The other advice is to know how to recognise a problem and seek trained medical assistance. Fixing low magnesium, for example, requires an iv infusion of (you guessed it) magnesium which may need cardiac monitoring whilst being given.

    Also, defibs cost a fortune and the pads go out of date.

    PS: I am UK Resus Council ALS/NLS/ATLS trained. If you really want a course, attending one of the St John courses for basic life support is good.
     
    Last edited: 4 Oct 2016
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Possibly, but a defibrillator would only be appropriate in case of total cardiac arrest. If that is a risk, then an implantable cardioverter-defibrillator would be more useful as it does not require the presence of another person to operate it (it sits under the skin like a pacemaker and zaps the heart if it senses an arrest).

    If the risk is of an arrhythmia then perhaps a pacemaker may be more useful. But there are different causes of cardiomyopathy, all with different symptoms and treatments so it's best to get a second opinion from a cardiac specialist.

    EDIT: ninja'd by Cei! He's a medic, so listen to him. :)
     
  8. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Thanks Cei, much appreciated.

    She was given a 500ml magnesium solution over 8 hours while hooked up to a heart monitor, along with a hefty dose of something else to lower her heart rate - it was 150-160 resting and irregular (possibly a beta-blocker which she was already taking, I can't quite remember).

    Hmm. Maybe a defib isn't what's needed after all. I guess "hospital taxi" is the only thing I can be. :(
     
  9. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Could be Sotalol or Flecanaide. If the latter doesn't snap your heart back into sinus rhythm, nothing will. :)

    As a psychologist I would of course like to point out the considerable importance of the role of "hospital taxi". Feeling seriously unwell and scared can be a very lonely experience. Having someone trusted and familiar take you to hospital and be there to hold your hand and talk to medics on your behalf makes all the difference.
     
  10. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Thanks again Nexxo.
     
  11. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    I appreciate that, thanks. To be honest, having only basic first-aid training, I felt pretty ****ing useless when faced with a breathless, dizzy lady in her 70's, as white as a sheet and barely able to walk. It was especially difficult as it was my mother.

    I'll do whatever it takes to not be in that position again.
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Yeah, I can totally understand that. But remember that just because you felt useless and out of control doesn't mean you were. You got her into hospital where you got her fixed, and you kept her feeling safe and looked after. :thumb:
     
  13. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    To think, if I had tried a bit harder at school and actually applied myself I could have been all clever like Cei or Nexxo. But nooooo. Instead I've ended up all stupid and stunted, like me.

    Elderly relatives with chronic health problems can be very stressful and worrying to be around, but I wholeheartedly agree with the experts on this one - being there for them when something inevitably goes wrong is all we 'normals' can really do. Basic, lifesaving first aid is a massively useful and helpful thing to be able to provide - but sometimes it's just not enough when bits of the body just randomly stop working properly at an inopportune moment.

    Being a calm and familiar face at a time like this might not make them better, but it certainly doesn't make things any worse.

    Source: 86 year old mother-in-law whom my better half spends increasingly more of her time caring for, and has scared us quite a few times since her husband died a couple of years back.
     
  14. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Thanks guys.

    You're right, Shirty. BTW it's my go with the dunce's hat. I've eaten all the crayons, sorry. :blush:

    Edit: seriously though, thanks for the advice and what-not. :thumb:
     
    Last edited: 3 Oct 2016
  15. techhead

    techhead Minimodder

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    As Cei said the best thing to do is to take up a basic first aid course. I did a first-aid course once it saved my mum's life. I had to do CPR on my mother while I waited for the ambulance to come in 2008.
    I'm not talking about advanced brain surgery I had learned enough on how to do basic CPR and breathing for somebody from A simple 2 hour course
     
  16. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Well done, that couldn't have been easy.

    I have basic first-aid training (from army cadets and later the army) and have performed CPR in the past (on an elderly gentleman on my street who's wife called me after calling 999. The ambulance crew took over from me when they arrived but the gentleman sadly didn't make it).

    A refresher course wouldn't hurt though.
     
  17. techhead

    techhead Minimodder

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    Believe me you have no idea how painful that was......

    but she's had eight good years unfortunately her heart is now failing and she has chronic COPD and she's not really well now.
    But yes basic first aid course well worth thing to do especially if you have young children
     
  18. Yadda

    Yadda Minimodder

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    Yes, I'll look into it and get myself into a course. Things have probably changed a lot since I was taught.

    Anyway, I don't want to dwell on things too much. Thanks again all.
     
  19. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Unrepentant Savage

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    For Science's sake, LOOK FOR A MEDIC ALERT BRACELET BEFORE DOING CPR! We with Marfan Syndrome often go down from aortic aneurysm, which looks like a heart attack. Read the bracelet, tell the EMS the right thing, they stand a chance of living if it's treatable. Just pound on their chest and it's an aneurysm, and they die right there.

    It's happened a lot. A LOT. So much the National Marfan Foundation puts out a warning about it. So now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
     
  20. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    So they've automated defibrillators these days. They've supposedly made them safe for the public to use. Basically you apply the pads, it monitors the heart and then makes the call on whether a pulse is required. If it is required you zap them. Pew Pew.



    Naturally they're not cheap. The one in the video is over 1100 dollars. To be honest I'm surprised that it is as cheap as it is. The regulatory cost of developing something like that would be absolutely mind blowing.
     

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