Core 2 Duo: Effects Of Memory Timings - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 18th Jul 2006, 16:19

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...timings/1.html

vengeance · 18th Jul 2006, 16:29

Good article.
Lower memory timings had no noticable performance boost for my system. But there was an obvious difference between 1T and 2T timings.

Lazlow · 18th Jul 2006, 16:35

I'm glad you concluded that there isn't a huge difference between the C3 and C4 sticks. I purchased a pair of 6400 (800MHz) 2gb Corsair C4s the other week for just under £200 and wondered if there is a huge difference between them and the lower latency set.

The C5s were around £160, whereas the C4s were near £200, so I was happy stumping up the extra £40, but the difference in price between the C4s and C3s seemed ridiculous.

choupolo · 18th Jul 2006, 16:52

That's great news for me too. I was just looking into the Core 2 Duo E6600-Asus P5W DH Deluxe-Corsair XMS2 6400CS4 combination. Could be a popular one.

ch424 · 18th Jul 2006, 17:01

Thanks for that! Bit-Tech myth busters!

However, I don't get the final conclusion: do people knowingly pay 30% more for 1% performance increase?

ch424

Tim S · 18th Jul 2006, 17:19

The 6400C3 modules we have are good overclockers and that is similar to what I have seen elsewhere on the web. What I'm basically saying is that memory with tighter timings is going to overclock further than 'standard' CAS4 DDR2. So, if you're looking to overclock, the C3 modules might be attractive if you've got more money than sense.

ch424 · 18th Jul 2006, 17:27

Ah, I get it now, thanks.

Edit: Post #1111 \o/

rgkgraphix · 18th Jul 2006, 18:29

woo...I got a little worried when I saw this article. I purchased the Corsair Ballistix 4-4-4-12 yesterday, without reading any reviews. Then I saw the headlines and was thinking...aw crap I hope I did well? I feel better now.

olly_lewis · 18th Jul 2006, 18:30

Thats one large pile of memory... good roundup, I'm going to go intel in the near future and this is very useful, good roundup...

Kipman725 · 18th Jul 2006, 20:36

Very usefull, should save some freinds of mine some money

bahgger · 18th Jul 2006, 20:47

"Is tighter always better? Do you always get what you pay for? We investigate how much difference memory timings can make to a Core 2 Duo platform. "

Now was the author's thoughts in the first sentence purely on memory timings, or was he feeling a little aroused too? :P

Highland3r · 18th Jul 2006, 21:00

The corsair C3 modules also use D9 "fatbody" chips, so scale rather nicely with volts. The BH5 of DDR2 one might say.

Nice roundup

Cthippo · 18th Jul 2006, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch424

Edit: Post #1111 \o/

So is your next post #10000?

Sea Shadow · 18th Jul 2006, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthippo

So is your next post #10000?

Also known as #10 or #20

Anyways back on topic: Great article, though it makes me sad to see so much pretty ram to just sit there in a pile like that (even for a photo shoot). Care to send it to a good home?

scq · 18th Jul 2006, 22:32

Good article. I am personally debating on lower clocks and tighter timings, or higher clocks and more relaxed timings for 2GB kits.

What would you suggest, if I plan to do some light (but not extreme) air overclocking of a Core 2 Duo?

Of course, due to my budget, I couldn't get high clocks and tight timings. I would need to find a sweet spot.

BossBorot · 18th Jul 2006, 23:08

If timings dont matter, as much, then why look at low latency Corsair memory at all? You mentioned overclocking but for that you could just pick up a 2gb set of DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) with decent latency for a lower price. I dont know if this is the case in the uk but some newegg links show what i mean.

DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) 2x1gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146114
(might want to get new heatspreaders lol)

DDR2 800 (PC26400) low latency 2x1gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145035

If the Corsair can hold its timings at DDR2 1000 speeds it is prob worth the cash but can it do that?

btw I was surfing the net for a long time, well sence the 14th, looking for memory analysis on conroe way to go bit-tech! now all I need is good comprehensive overclocking analysis

!

DeX · 18th Jul 2006, 23:44

Great article (needless to say), but it seems people are drawing their own conclusions.

For me it's a no brainer, go with the slowest memory timings, save £100 and buy the faster processor instead. I don't think you mentioned the differences in price between the C3, C4 and PRO, but I'm sure that it's larger than the difference between the E6400 and E6600.

The only reason for buying the C4 or C3 I can see is if you already have the X6800 and want to overclock that as far as it will go. It would be a waste of money to couple the high speed memory with the slightly slower processor given that also have to shell out on expensive heat sinks or watercooler equipment to get any significant improvement in performance by overclocking

I don't know much about memory really but if you had a Core 2 Duo would you have to have DDR2-800 to get the most out of the processor? Is there a significant performance difference between DDR2-533 or 667 and 800?

Edit:
Just looked at the prices of these three modules (guessing from the pictures and slight hints in the article that you were using 2x1GB modules) at newegg. These are the prices of the non PRO versions. You used the PRO version of the C5 in the article although I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to be between them it is no doubt minimal. Here are the prices:

Corsair XMS2-6400C3: $469 (£256)
Corsair XMS2-6400C4: $250 (£147)
Corsair XMS2-6400C5: $198 (£108)

I would also like to go further and compare the above with the lower frequency modules which are even cheaper:
Corsair XMS2-5400C4: $168 (£91)
Corsair XMS2-4000C3: $159 (£87)

(Edit2: better make sure you add at least £50 over-the-pond poll tax onto those British prices).

Just trying to figure which option has the biggest bang for buck ratio...

Renoir · 19th Jul 2006, 00:49

My first post.

DeX that is my thinking exactly. At current prices there's no point in paying for fast ram when you could use that money for a faster CPU (unless of course you've bought the x6800 or intend to overclock).

As for the performance differences between different memory frequencies the following article covers 667/800/1066 at various timings and my reading of the results is that there's no significant benefit of even getting better than 667 c5 memory (other than for reasons mentioned above).

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ng/default.asp

Unfortunately the article doesn't cover 533 ram which is a shame as I'd reckon that could be close to the faster speeds as well. Truth is though that from a practical point of view there is currently very little price premium on 667 over 533 ram so there's not much reason to go lower than 667 and it most likely won't be that long till the same can be said for 800 over 667.

I guess you could look at these results as good (no need for most people to spend loads of money on fast ram) or bad (core 2 duo doesn't currently get much faster even if you throw money at ram). Matter of oppinion I guess.

Would be interesting to see though what affect the higher memory speeds have on integrated graphics especially with aero in vista using the gpu.

BossBorot · 19th Jul 2006, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeX

Just trying to figure which option has the biggest bang for buck ratio...

all you did is look at corsair. From what you are saying I can presume that you can accept "bad" timings but want high mhz rated speed. If you can buy from newegg these deals look good. I am myself debating what to pick up after reading this article..

(the following prices from USA websites i dont know if what I found relates to the UK as well, as I don't know where you buy you'r stuff)

about $155.50 No rebate 2x1gb DDR2 800 (PC 6400) 5-5-5-15

about $160 AR 2x1gb DDR2 800 (PC 6400) 5-5-5-10

this is a lot cheaper then the $400+ for low latency 2x1gb DDR2 800 (PC6400) kits

Edit: also these deals on DDR2 800 (PC 6400) dont cost much more then the cheapest DDR2 667 (PC 5300) at the same website for compairison you might be able to find even better deals then this is you look around

about $145 No Rebate 2x1gb DDR2 667 (PC 5300) 4-?-?-? w/o heatspreaders.

So basically it looks like DDR2 800 (PC 6400) is worth it, at least in the USA, because there is little price premium over lower speed ram.

Note: all of the ram shown here is the cheapest ram at newegg at each speed, measured in mhz not timings, for 2x1gb pairs at the time of posting. hope this helped

Tim S · 19th Jul 2006, 01:05

whoops, yes I used 2x1GB dual channel kits. The reason I listed the Pro modules is because they're the CAS5-rated modules we've got in the office. I'd be very surprised if you see any performance differences between them and the current 6400C5 modules

18th Jul 2006, 16:35	#3
Lazlow I have a dremel. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Lincoln, UK Posts: 1,464	I'm glad you concluded that there isn't a huge difference between the C3 and C4 sticks. I purchased a pair of 6400 (800MHz) 2gb Corsair C4s the other week for just under £200 and wondered if there is a huge difference between them and the lower latency set. The C5s were around £160, whereas the C4s were near £200, so I was happy stumping up the extra £40, but the difference in price between the C4s and C3s seemed ridiculous. __________________ Logs: Red Nineteen\|Pink PC Links: slickhouse.com\|Free file upload

18th Jul 2006, 17:01	#5
ch424 Design Warrior Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 2,513	Thanks for that! Bit-Tech myth busters! However, I don't get the final conclusion: do people knowingly pay 30% more for 1% performance increase? ch424 __________________ The Alligator Intel Q6600 @ 3GHz \| Asus P5QL-E \| 4GB x OCZ Platinum \| ASUS HD4850 \| Yuraku YV24WBH1 \| 2x 1TB Samsung F1 \| Vista Ultimate Dell Latitude D430 \| 1.2GHz 2MB Core 2 Duo U7600 \| 2GB x DDR2-533 \| 12.1" WXGA \| 80GB 4200rpm \| Intel 945GMS \| DVD/CDRW \| 64-bit Xubuntu \| Samsung Galaxy

18th Jul 2006, 17:19	#6
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	The 6400C3 modules we have are good overclockers and that is similar to what I have seen elsewhere on the web. What I'm basically saying is that memory with tighter timings is going to overclock further than 'standard' CAS4 DDR2. So, if you're looking to overclock, the C3 modules might be attractive if you've got more money than sense. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

18th Jul 2006, 18:29	#8
rgkgraphix Minimodder Join Date: May 2006 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 45	woo...I got a little worried when I saw this article. I purchased the Corsair Ballistix 4-4-4-12 yesterday, without reading any reviews. Then I saw the headlines and was thinking...aw crap I hope I did well? I feel better now. __________________ Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of floppies. Mac Pro (2) 2.6 GHz Woodcrests. OSX and XP installed. Intel DP965LT \| Intel E6400 \| 1GB A-Data DDR2-667 \| CoolMax 500w PSU \| XFX 7600GT \| (1) Seagate 7200.9 160GB os \| (1)WD 250GB \| (2) Hitachi 160GB Last edited by rgkgraphix; 18th Jul 2006 at 20:23.

18th Jul 2006, 18:30	#9
olly_lewis Hypermodder Join Date: May 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 756	Thats one large pile of memory... good roundup, I'm going to go intel in the near future and this is very useful, good roundup... __________________ My signature dumped me... ___________

18th Jul 2006, 16:19	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	Core 2 Duo: Effects Of Memory Timings http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...timings/1.html __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

18th Jul 2006, 16:29	#2
vengeance What's a Dremel? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2	Good article. Lower memory timings had no noticable performance boost for my system. But there was an obvious difference between 1T and 2T timings.

18th Jul 2006, 16:52	#4
choupolo Minimodder Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leeds,UK Posts: 39	That's great news for me too. I was just looking into the Core 2 Duo E6600-Asus P5W DH Deluxe-Corsair XMS2 6400CS4 combination. Could be a popular one.

18th Jul 2006, 17:27	#7
ch424 Design Warrior Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 2,513	Ah, I get it now, thanks. Edit: Post #1111 \o/

18th Jul 2006, 20:36	#10
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	Very usefull, should save some freinds of mine some money __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

18th Jul 2006, 20:47	#11
bahgger Supermodder Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 585	"Is tighter always better? Do you always get what you pay for? We investigate how much difference memory timings can make to a Core 2 Duo platform. " Now was the author's thoughts in the first sentence purely on memory timings, or was he feeling a little aroused too? :P

18th Jul 2006, 21:00	#12
Highland3r I Mod, Therefore I Own Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 7,159	The corsair C3 modules also use D9 "fatbody" chips, so scale rather nicely with volts. The BH5 of DDR2 one might say. Nice roundup __________________ Prawn or not...?

18th Jul 2006, 22:32	#15
scq Hypermodder Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 783	Good article. I am personally debating on lower clocks and tighter timings, or higher clocks and more relaxed timings for 2GB kits. What would you suggest, if I plan to do some light (but not extreme) air overclocking of a Core 2 Duo? Of course, due to my budget, I couldn't get high clocks and tight timings. I would need to find a sweet spot. Last edited by scq; 18th Jul 2006 at 22:38.

18th Jul 2006, 23:08	#16
BossBorot What's a Dremel? Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 7	If timings dont matter, as much, then why look at low latency Corsair memory at all? You mentioned overclocking but for that you could just pick up a 2gb set of DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) with decent latency for a lower price. I dont know if this is the case in the uk but some newegg links show what i mean. DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) 2x1gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146114 (might want to get new heatspreaders lol) DDR2 800 (PC26400) low latency 2x1gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145035 If the Corsair can hold its timings at DDR2 1000 speeds it is prob worth the cash but can it do that? btw I was surfing the net for a long time, well sence the 14th, looking for memory analysis on conroe way to go bit-tech! now all I need is good comprehensive overclocking analysis ! Last edited by BossBorot; 18th Jul 2006 at 23:37.

18th Jul 2006, 23:44	#17
DeX Mube Codder Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,103	Great article (needless to say), but it seems people are drawing their own conclusions. For me it's a no brainer, go with the slowest memory timings, save £100 and buy the faster processor instead. I don't think you mentioned the differences in price between the C3, C4 and PRO, but I'm sure that it's larger than the difference between the E6400 and E6600. The only reason for buying the C4 or C3 I can see is if you already have the X6800 and want to overclock that as far as it will go. It would be a waste of money to couple the high speed memory with the slightly slower processor given that also have to shell out on expensive heat sinks or watercooler equipment to get any significant improvement in performance by overclocking I don't know much about memory really but if you had a Core 2 Duo would you have to have DDR2-800 to get the most out of the processor? Is there a significant performance difference between DDR2-533 or 667 and 800? Edit: Just looked at the prices of these three modules (guessing from the pictures and slight hints in the article that you were using 2x1GB modules) at newegg. These are the prices of the non PRO versions. You used the PRO version of the C5 in the article although I'm not sure what the difference is supposed to be between them it is no doubt minimal. Here are the prices: Corsair XMS2-6400C3: $469 (£256) Corsair XMS2-6400C4: $250 (£147) Corsair XMS2-6400C5: $198 (£108) I would also like to go further and compare the above with the lower frequency modules which are even cheaper: Corsair XMS2-5400C4: $168 (£91) Corsair XMS2-4000C3: $159 (£87) (Edit2: better make sure you add at least £50 over-the-pond poll tax onto those British prices). Just trying to figure which option has the biggest bang for buck ratio... __________________ Play my game: Shyguy's Cave of Death! If you dont have the time to check your spelling and grammar, you dont have the time to post! -Liquid K9 Last edited by DeX; 19th Jul 2006 at 00:49.

19th Jul 2006, 00:49	#18
Renoir Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 190	My first post. DeX that is my thinking exactly. At current prices there's no point in paying for fast ram when you could use that money for a faster CPU (unless of course you've bought the x6800 or intend to overclock). As for the performance differences between different memory frequencies the following article covers 667/800/1066 at various timings and my reading of the results is that there's no significant benefit of even getting better than 667 c5 memory (other than for reasons mentioned above). http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ng/default.asp Unfortunately the article doesn't cover 533 ram which is a shame as I'd reckon that could be close to the faster speeds as well. Truth is though that from a practical point of view there is currently very little price premium on 667 over 533 ram so there's not much reason to go lower than 667 and it most likely won't be that long till the same can be said for 800 over 667. I guess you could look at these results as good (no need for most people to spend loads of money on fast ram) or bad (core 2 duo doesn't currently get much faster even if you throw money at ram). Matter of oppinion I guess. Would be interesting to see though what affect the higher memory speeds have on integrated graphics especially with aero in vista using the gpu.

19th Jul 2006, 01:05	#20
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	whoops, yes I used 2x1GB dual channel kits. The reason I listed the Pro modules is because they're the CAS5-rated modules we've got in the office. I'd be very surprised if you see any performance differences between them and the current 6400C5 modules __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)