DVDs to get chips that 'prevent' copying - bit-tech.net Forums

Da Dego · 18th Sep 2006, 20:39

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/09...event_copying/

specofdust · 18th Sep 2006, 20:46

So they're going to sell millions of chips so that they know which one a copy came from, but what good does that do when pirates release a disk that some guys mums friend who lives in nevada bought and leant to them? This sounds like it might slow down piracy a little, but then, I even doubt that since a good, individual release group is considerably better at the entire piracy thing then all the anti-piracy groups are put together

neocleous · 18th Sep 2006, 21:00

Why bother what a wast of money. Instead of lowering the cost of DVD's to encourage more people to buy them they are wasting more money on RnD on a pathetic anti piracy technology that is going to reliy on all the manufactures that make DVD players adopting.

They tryed encrypting DVD's it didnt work why bother with this so late in the life of DVD's

LoneArchon · 18th Sep 2006, 21:05

Not a solution to Prevent or even slow down Video pirating of older formats due to it will increase cost of the media the movie is on, older players and drive will not support the rfid chip, Changing format of the movie so only new drives will not work because People will not buy a movie if they have to buy a new dvd player or drive to play it. This may work for new HD DVD and Blu Ray but not DVD. But with all technology it will be crack one way or aonther

Tulatin · 18th Sep 2006, 21:18

Remind me how the hell this is going to do anything if a disk is just dropped into an older reader and ripped?

riggs · 18th Sep 2006, 21:23

Too little too late imo.

I'm wondering who exactly is coming up with these ideas...

Sam0r · 18th Sep 2006, 21:28

Thats all well and good, but its not going to stop them plugging a good TV card into a DVD player.

EQC · 18th Sep 2006, 21:30

An article over on arstechnica about this is pretty detailed...and says it's even too late to implement this in HDDVD or BluRay since there are already players out. See the article here:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060917-7760.html

I just don't get how this could possibly work unless some format was produced that required every player and every disk (blank/writable or factory produced movies) to have an RFID tag. Otherwise people could just go out and buy a player that didn't have an RFID reader...and play whatever disk they wanted.

Further...if I have a blank disk (with or without an RFID tag), couldn't I just copy a movie to it and it'll look like a "home movies" disk I made? Even if there was something embedded in the disk data saying to look for an RFID tag, it seems like a decent copying program would know how to remove or alter that to say "home movies" instead of "Super great Sony Movie Studios Movie, requires RFID tag!!!!!"

Even big piracy outfits (the type producing thousands of copies of each pirated movie) would likely be able to produce/re-encode their own RFID tags to say whatever they wanted to say. Or just not copy the RFID data on the original disk that would make things tracable (or copy it perfectly if that was somehow necessary). Isn't the big thing about RFID tags that they're cheap to produce and work with?

And what on earth could this possibly do about the "cam" editions of movies -- burned disks that are just recordings from hidden camcorders in the theater??? Isn't that supposed to account for like 30% of piracy or something? There is no way for a player to distinguish such a disk from a home movie...it'll be a burned disk, and it'll be filmed by a hand-held camcorder.

Can anybody explain further how this RFID tag is supposed to stop anything?

r4tch3t · 18th Sep 2006, 21:38

Completly useless, if they want to stop piracy, do something that will actually be half difficult for crackers and any person with half a technical mind. All that will happen here is the average consumer who knows nothing about electronics, will buy a DVD and it wont work in his player, all his other DVDs work but the new ones dont.
Most of these "anti-piracy" things don't work, either they make it harder for the general public, or makes people turn to piracy as it doesn't have the annoying anti-piracy stuff on it (who wants their DVD collection trackable).

^or something along those lines anyway^

Strages · 18th Sep 2006, 21:42

My 2 cents? It's a publicity stunt. It's not meant to actually stop anything, it's meant to give the illusion of security. What most people "in the know" don't realize is that the people "in the know" is such a smal percentage of the total amount of people that the MPAA doesn't really care. They want the average joe's to think that this is super-secure and that they're not going to be able to pirate movies or whatever. Not that I agree with this - I think it's stupid on every possible level - but that's not the point. It looks like a great idea if you have no idea what "RFID" means or how the technology actually works. It certainly a better solution than DRM to the average consumer/stockholder/investor/idiot.

DriftCarl · 18th Sep 2006, 22:03

well if they can track my DVD's anywhere I go (if i had a DVD player in the car) then there is an even bigger reason to get a copied product than before.
I mayaswell try to nick a bunch of money from a bank because having an RF tag on my feet for a few months is pritty much the exact same thing.

Tyinsar · 18th Sep 2006, 22:05

I think "Strages" nailed it (post #10). but what a pointless exercise implementing this would really be - I suspect it will never happen.

Actually I think the industry is hoping to move to a model where you just rent the content.

Cobalt · 18th Sep 2006, 22:47

The problem with Starges point is that most of the people getting decent copies of dvds (i.e. not cam recordings) are the ones "in the know". And "the know" is anybody who has used any kind of P2P program.

EQC · 18th Sep 2006, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyinsar

Actually I think the industry is hoping to move to a model where you just rent the content.

...first they convince you to "rent" an "e-DVD" (or other form of electronic movie) everytime you want to watch it...then they'll get rid of ownership altogether and start nickel-and-diming you for everything...

on that note:

Bit-Tech Article "In the Not So Distant Future"

Ben · 18th Sep 2006, 22:49

how the hec is this going to work.

How do the dvd players work out a rip'ed copy from a home made movie? as a home made dvd & rip'ed dvd wont have this tag or will it...

Spaced_invader · 18th Sep 2006, 23:09

how is this going to work without your DVD player being hooked up to the net? I mean it's all fine having a serial number attached to the media, but how is your player supposed to recognise the difference between a DVD with a serial number flagged as pirated and a normal one...

and if the system is hooked up the the internet then surely it's aimed at PC's only as your not gonna be able to convince average joe that he now needs to plug his dvd player into the phone line to be able to watch films. So if it is aimed solely at PC's then all you have to do is unplug the net so it can't connect to their massive marketing i mean anti-copyright enfringement database.

Devil_909 · 18th Sep 2006, 23:31

So they know what i purchased.....where from...what I watch... and when i watch it. I am pretty sure that violates some laws. I mean hell they might as well cook some popcorn and come watch it with me. It is just a half assed idea that will cost more money, raise prices of dvds so that we rip even more of them.

Sam0r · 18th Sep 2006, 23:58

Another thing i just thought of.. won't putting an rfid chip in there cause the dvd to lose it balance on the spindle inside the player?

I remember when they couldn't get cd's to spin faster than 52x with a label on them because they vibrated too much.*

*Could be bull****, read it in PC Format.

Tibby · 19th Sep 2006, 00:24

This is just another reason for me to download a film instead of buying it.

If I buy a DVD and they make it so I can't simply rip it to my PC (which I am in my legal rights to go) so I can watch my whole movie collection on any PC across my network, I am better of downloading a copy.

Sam0r · 19th Sep 2006, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tibby

This is just another reason for me to download a film instead of buying it.

If I buy a DVD and they make it so I can't simply rip it to my PC (which I am in my legal rights to go) so I can watch my whole movie collection on any PC across my network, I am better of downloading a copy.

Legally, you should do both.

18th Sep 2006, 20:46	#2
specofdust Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Aberdeen, UK, EU Posts: 7,622	So they're going to sell millions of chips so that they know which one a copy came from, but what good does that do when pirates release a disk that some guys mums friend who lives in nevada bought and leant to them? This sounds like it might slow down piracy a little, but then, I even doubt that since a good, individual release group is considerably better at the entire piracy thing then all the anti-piracy groups are put together __________________ Like marmite, only no-one hates it Mmm bop!

18th Sep 2006, 21:00	#3
neocleous Supermodder Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 261	Why bother what a wast of money. Instead of lowering the cost of DVD's to encourage more people to buy them they are wasting more money on RnD on a pathetic anti piracy technology that is going to reliy on all the manufactures that make DVD players adopting. They tryed encrypting DVD's it didnt work why bother with this so late in the life of DVD's __________________ Don Dan

18th Sep 2006, 21:05	#4
LoneArchon Supermodder Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Waldorf,MD Posts: 422	Not a solution to Prevent or even slow down Video pirating of older formats due to it will increase cost of the media the movie is on, older players and drive will not support the rfid chip, Changing format of the movie so only new drives will not work because People will not buy a movie if they have to buy a new dvd player or drive to play it. This may work for new HD DVD and Blu Ray but not DVD. But with all technology it will be crack one way or aonther __________________ .:NEED MORE ENERGY:. A64 x2 4800+/eVGA Geforce 8800gtx with dangerden Water Block/2GB Corsair 3200/250gb Western Digital/Asus A8N32-Sli Deluxe/24" Acer LCD

18th Sep 2006, 21:18	#5
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,942	Remind me how the hell this is going to do anything if a disk is just dropped into an older reader and ripped? __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690

18th Sep 2006, 21:23	#6
riggs ^_^ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Lincs. Posts: 1,645	Too little too late imo. I'm wondering who exactly is coming up with these ideas... __________________ Hell hath no fury like a hippo with a machine gun PSN ID: buster2006

18th Sep 2006, 20:39	#1
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	DVDs to get chips that 'prevent' copying http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/09...event_copying/ __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

18th Sep 2006, 21:28	#7
Sam0r Hater of Seagate Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 1,894	Thats all well and good, but its not going to stop them plugging a good TV card into a DVD player. __________________ Lenovo 3000 N200 - C2D 1.6 - 2gb DDR533 - 120gb HD Xbox Live Gamertag: Sam00r \| My Blog Type Thing

18th Sep 2006, 21:30	#8
EQC Multimodder Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CA Posts: 220	An article over on arstechnica about this is pretty detailed...and says it's even too late to implement this in HDDVD or BluRay since there are already players out. See the article here: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060917-7760.html I just don't get how this could possibly work unless some format was produced that required every player and every disk (blank/writable or factory produced movies) to have an RFID tag. Otherwise people could just go out and buy a player that didn't have an RFID reader...and play whatever disk they wanted. Further...if I have a blank disk (with or without an RFID tag), couldn't I just copy a movie to it and it'll look like a "home movies" disk I made? Even if there was something embedded in the disk data saying to look for an RFID tag, it seems like a decent copying program would know how to remove or alter that to say "home movies" instead of "Super great Sony Movie Studios Movie, requires RFID tag!!!!!" Even big piracy outfits (the type producing thousands of copies of each pirated movie) would likely be able to produce/re-encode their own RFID tags to say whatever they wanted to say. Or just not copy the RFID data on the original disk that would make things tracable (or copy it perfectly if that was somehow necessary). Isn't the big thing about RFID tags that they're cheap to produce and work with? And what on earth could this possibly do about the "cam" editions of movies -- burned disks that are just recordings from hidden camcorders in the theater??? Isn't that supposed to account for like 30% of piracy or something? There is no way for a player to distinguish such a disk from a home movie...it'll be a burned disk, and it'll be filmed by a hand-held camcorder. Can anybody explain further how this RFID tag is supposed to stop anything?

18th Sep 2006, 21:38	#9
r4tch3t hmmmm.... Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,887	Completly useless, if they want to stop piracy, do something that will actually be half difficult for crackers and any person with half a technical mind. All that will happen here is the average consumer who knows nothing about electronics, will buy a DVD and it wont work in his player, all his other DVDs work but the new ones dont. Most of these "anti-piracy" things don't work, either they make it harder for the general public, or makes people turn to piracy as it doesn't have the annoying anti-piracy stuff on it (who wants their DVD collection trackable). ^or something along those lines anyway^ __________________ Fight my Brute The quantum limit of reality might be scaled up because we're all holograms. Obviously. Once more we see that sufficiently advanced physics is indistinguishable from getting really stoned. From here

18th Sep 2006, 21:42	#10
Strages What's a Dremel? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: California, USA Posts: 12	My 2 cents? It's a publicity stunt. It's not meant to actually stop anything, it's meant to give the illusion of security. What most people "in the know" don't realize is that the people "in the know" is such a smal percentage of the total amount of people that the MPAA doesn't really care. They want the average joe's to think that this is super-secure and that they're not going to be able to pirate movies or whatever. Not that I agree with this - I think it's stupid on every possible level - but that's not the point. It looks like a great idea if you have no idea what "RFID" means or how the technology actually works. It certainly a better solution than DRM to the average consumer/stockholder/investor/idiot. __________________ Conspicuous Consumer.

18th Sep 2006, 22:03	#11
DriftCarl Multimodder Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	well if they can track my DVD's anywhere I go (if i had a DVD player in the car) then there is an even bigger reason to get a copied product than before. I mayaswell try to nick a bunch of money from a bank because having an RF tag on my feet for a few months is pritty much the exact same thing.

18th Sep 2006, 22:05	#12
Tyinsar 6 screens / 1 card Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: AB.CA Posts: 2,005	I think "Strages" nailed it (post #10). but what a pointless exercise implementing this would really be - I suspect it will never happen. Actually I think the industry is hoping to move to a model where you just rent the content. __________________ It's not about how life treats you, it's about how you treat life.

18th Sep 2006, 22:47	#13
Cobalt Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 248	The problem with Starges point is that most of the people getting decent copies of dvds (i.e. not cam recordings) are the ones "in the know". And "the know" is anybody who has used any kind of P2P program.

18th Sep 2006, 22:49	#15
Ben Ultramodder Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: East Sussex Posts: 1,001	how the hec is this going to work. How do the dvd players work out a rip'ed copy from a home made movie? as a home made dvd & rip'ed dvd wont have this tag or will it... __________________ flickr

18th Sep 2006, 23:09	#16
Spaced_invader Supermodder Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: UK Posts: 493	how is this going to work without your DVD player being hooked up to the net? I mean it's all fine having a serial number attached to the media, but how is your player supposed to recognise the difference between a DVD with a serial number flagged as pirated and a normal one... and if the system is hooked up the the internet then surely it's aimed at PC's only as your not gonna be able to convince average joe that he now needs to plug his dvd player into the phone line to be able to watch films. So if it is aimed solely at PC's then all you have to do is unplug the net so it can't connect to their massive marketing i mean anti-copyright enfringement database. __________________ email me: echo "'1+&9#1)+/6@)0#+/.%20" \| tr "#--/-=" a-z those that should know, know...

18th Sep 2006, 23:31	#17
Devil_909 Modder Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NC Posts: 54	So they know what i purchased.....where from...what I watch... and when i watch it. I am pretty sure that violates some laws. I mean hell they might as well cook some popcorn and come watch it with me. It is just a half assed idea that will cost more money, raise prices of dvds so that we rip even more of them.

18th Sep 2006, 23:58	#18
Sam0r Hater of Seagate Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 1,894	Another thing i just thought of.. won't putting an rfid chip in there cause the dvd to lose it balance on the spindle inside the player? I remember when they couldn't get cd's to spin faster than 52x with a label on them because they vibrated too much.* Could be bull***, read it in PC Format. __________________ Lenovo 3000 N200 - C2D 1.6 - 2gb DDR533 - 120gb HD Xbox Live Gamertag: Sam00r \| My Blog Type Thing

19th Sep 2006, 00:24	#19
Tibby Technologic Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London / Sheffield Posts: 2,003	This is just another reason for me to download a film instead of buying it. If I buy a DVD and they make it so I can't simply rip it to my PC (which I am in my legal rights to go) so I can watch my whole movie collection on any PC across my network, I am better of downloading a copy. __________________ Tiberius - Master Of Pie My Xbox360 Can Talk!