Ghosts, Goblins and difficulty levels - bit-tech.net Forums

WilHarris · 24th Oct 2006, 09:34

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/...ficulty/1.html

dire_wolf · 24th Oct 2006, 09:44

Nooooo, is it true you can only get the game on PSP? This is probably my favourite series of all time, it almost brings a tear to my eye remembering playing through it as a child. Anyway, i'm off to ebay to pick up a PSP . . .

This is GnG, it's meant to be hard, it was an arcade game therefore it was designed to rip you off for all you were worth

Fans of the series will more than likely be put off if it is too easy

BioSniper · 24th Oct 2006, 09:58

When I played it I found it FAR too hard as the control system is plain pap. You cannot jump and then move a direction after you have jumped unlike most platformers. If you stand still and jump you only jump upwards. WTF is with that?!

kenco_uk · 24th Oct 2006, 10:26

I can certainly relate to the comments regarding the original Ghosts n Goblins. It was ruddy hard and I think, at the time, I only managed once to get to level three.

I think a fair amount of blame is laid at the doorstep of the american market; from reading Edge magazine since issue 1, there certainly seems to be some stigma with the fact that 'if a game's too easy, it's made for the american market' as apparently they get quite upset if they've paid for a game and can't get past the first couple of levels. Tbh, I would tend to agree for the most part. It's not that the games are bad, they're just easier to complete. Take Prey, for example. Easy to complete (nigh on impossible to actually die) but nonetheless a very enjoyable game because of its scalectrix-storyline. Obviously, it's a careful balance of either storyline or variety to keep a player going in this intance.

Hovis · 24th Oct 2006, 10:35

I'd just like to point out at this juncture that although Alex slates the easiness of Oblivion I can confirm, having seen it with my own eyes, that he did have to restart the game from the beginning on the first time of playing because his original character was too much of a wuss to take the job on.

For those who like their Oblivion with the added panic factor by the way, there's a little thing out there in the Internets somewhere called the Adrenalin mod. It does several things but the most noticeable is that it increases the number of enemies that spawn by about four times. No more buffed baddies when you get to high levels, just dozens of the bleeders. It turns an what in the vanilla game would be an ordinary scrap with a handful of skeletons into an exercise in crowd control.

Cthippo · 24th Oct 2006, 10:48

This is what God Mode is for. Sometimes I like a challenge, survivng the boss, figuring out the puzzles, etc. Other time I just want to kill stuff, and lots of it.

The only game I remember off hand that had this built in was Mechwarrior 2 which had a mode where you chose an enviroment and it just kept sending enimies at you until you died or it ran out of enemies (about 15). I sometimes wish that developers would add a "frag fest" mode where you were invinciable and could just kill things until you got bored. Wouldn't take much to do and would be a nice extra.

Sifter3000 · 24th Oct 2006, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthippo

The only game I remember off hand that had this built in was Mechwarrior 2 which had a mode where you chose an enviroment and it just kept sending enimies at you until you died or it ran out of enemies (about 15). I sometimes wish that developers would add a "frag fest" mode where you were invinciable and could just kill things until you got bored. Wouldn't take much to do and would be a nice extra.

Man, I loved MW2. That final mission, in the icy valley, was insane. So many robots to kill!

Hovis · 24th Oct 2006, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthippo

This is what God Mode is for. Sometimes I like a challenge, survivng the boss, figuring out the puzzles, etc. Other time I just want to kill stuff, and lots of it.

The only game I remember off hand that had this built in was Mechwarrior 2 which had a mode where you chose an enviroment and it just kept sending enimies at you until you died or it ran out of enemies (about 15). I sometimes wish that developers would add a "frag fest" mode where you were invinciable and could just kill things until you got bored. Wouldn't take much to do and would be a nice extra.

The recently added an arena shoot the hell out of infinite spawning baddies mode to Sin Episodes, it's almost better than the ordinary game.

yakyb · 24th Oct 2006, 11:55

i completly agree with this topics take on oblivion what is the point in getting higher levels when all it does is make the people you fight harder the obvious flaw to this was with the arena which was so easy to complete it was laughable surely this should have had to be a challenge like the battle square in FF7 which could only be completed after lvl 50 due to the diffculty of the bosses i played oblivion for a while (long enough to get the nice house and all the furnishings) but just grew bored of the constant same fight occuring over and over if i knew that by getting stronger things would start to fall in my prescence i would have continued playing but when things like wolves continue to get harder and harder it just isnt fun you should be able to swat these things aside as mentioned and have to worry whilst in dungeons not spend equal amount of time worrying bout beasts wherever your are.
now in referance to ghosts & goblins awesome game i remember playing this in its yellow and green glory. the arguement about it being too hard, now when was the last time anyof us was challenged by a FPS or platform game. the only game that i have had difficulty with recently is with Gran Turismo 3 trying to get the last License now that was fun! (and of course WOW but that was only due to the amount of time required before you could get anywhere)
i have crysis, dark messiah and C&C3 all on preorder i hope these live up to some of the hype they are receiving i reckon 2 of them will

Veles · 24th Oct 2006, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakyb

now when was the last time anyof us was challenged by a FPS or platform game.

I'd probably say Sin episode 1, those damn minigun troopers were a bitch.

I'm all for being challenged in a game, but sometimes a game is just too rediculously hard with no option to tone it down a bit (Ninja Gaiden anyone?).

I also despised the leveling monsters sytem in Oblivion, it completely defied the point of an RPG. Just because some guy reaches level 20 doesn't mean minotoars suddenly appear everywhere. They'd be there from the start, and if you accidentally met one at level one garding some badass treasure you'd run like hell and come back to kill him when you're better.

gm_crop · 24th Oct 2006, 13:16

Commandos, Hidden & Dangerous... Anyone stop playing them because they were rock solid? Not me.

Cthippo · 24th Oct 2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakyb

the arguement about it being too hard, now when was the last time anyof us was challenged by a FPS or platform game.

Well, the wait for the elevator in HL2E1 comes to mind...

Fundamentally, game creators have to write what they think people will buy. There is a fine line between "challenging" and "Too hard to be fun" that they have to tread. I know some people on here like their games to be very very difficult, they enjoy the thrill of finally beating a stage after 6 hours of trying to get through it. Personally, and I think I'm more in the mainstream on this, I prefer to play through without getting killed too often so that it's more of an interactive story than anything else. If a games gets to a certin level of frustration where I feel I'm just not advancing, I will either pull out the cheat code or else go play somthing else.

Neogumbercules · 24th Oct 2006, 15:20

How dare you make an article about game difficulty and not at least mention Contra 3: The Alien Wars? It didn't even let you see the real ending unless you beat it on hard.

The Alien Wars was released in Europe and Australia under the Probotector label, as Super Probotector: Alien Rebels.

Blademrk · 24th Oct 2006, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dire_wolf

Nooooo, is it true you can only get the game on PSP? This is probably my favourite series of all time, it almost brings a tear to my eye remembering playing through it as a child. Anyway, i'm off to ebay to pick up a PSP . . .

This is GnG, it's meant to be hard, it was an arcade game therefore it was designed to rip you off for all you were worth

Fans of the series will more than likely be put off if it is too easy

You can get the original Ghosts 'n' Goblins as well as Ghouls 'n' Ghosts and Super Ghouls 'n' Ghosts on the Capcom collection for both the Xbox and PS2. Ultimate Ghouls 'n' Ghosts is only on PSP though...

There's also the Maximo series on the PS2 which is considered to be the 3D version of GNG, and is pretty good actually.

xPaladin · 24th Oct 2006, 16:35

Great article!

I think the idea of "cinematic gaming" is lame and that more games need to be made that provide challenge instead of dazzling with effects. Both Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 had the same problem: each "scene" was more or less choreographed to play out a certain way, so the game play got very predictable -- and boring -- after a short time.

The original System Shock excelled in all aspects here. It had a compelling plot and lots of "first person" cinematic game play (namely listening to log files or being taunted by SHODAN), but on top of that, the difficulty was customizable to the extreme. In fact, each aspect of the game was customizable. Puzzle masters could crank up the puzzle difficulty significantly (they were actual mini-games too -- SS2 puzzles were severely watered down in comparison). Good gunners could increase critter damage and spawning. And then, TRUE hotshots could find out if they could indeed beat the game in under 7 hours with some or all of the above pretenses -- not easy at all!

Honestly, System Shock was decades before it's time. If you missed this game, go out and buy it or download it, and use dosbox to get it playing 386 style. Right now.

[USRF]Obiwan · 24th Oct 2006, 16:47

i always have my rule of wishdom: "if I die 25 times in a level and there is no progession and only more frustration with each dead. Get cheat and try again."

oooohh the relief... the relief...

Oh and most of the time (especaly in RPG games) i get bored after 5 days of nonstop playing. I get a cheat to progess "quicker" through a game. Just to get done with it. See in my world i have limited time to spend. And too much gametime is wasting my lifeforce called aging..

Sifter3000 · 24th Oct 2006, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm_crop

Commandos, Hidden & Dangerous... Anyone stop playing them because they were rock solid? Not me.

Ah, now Commandos was hard

But Hidden & Dangerous was tough because it was buggy as hell - being shot through walls, or just randomly dying as I recall...

Tulatin · 24th Oct 2006, 21:19

*sigh* Whyfor did you start with an oblivion reference?

For those people who sit there and bitch that the scaling difficulty breaks the game, i have this to say - it just means that you weak people couldn't do it. If you want the ability to flyswat, just enchant your weapons, and armour to max out your strength, and light things up while you zap em. That should do it.

dire_wolf · 24th Oct 2006, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademrk

Ultimate Ghouls 'n' Ghosts is only on PSP though...

I'm glad I went and read that note on lik sang before I bought a psp, I'll bide my time and see if it gets made for the wii or ds lite

metarinka · 25th Oct 2006, 03:42

What about varying Difficulties, most games give you an option to change them, save for the older games where the replayability was in trying to learn and master the levels (no small feat in metal slug, contra etc) However in modern titles the content is usually more-so than you can beat in one sitting and plays out more cinematically due to graphics (not that the excuses the gameplay, but it doesn't hinder it). So difficulty and core gameplay elements are over what you have in say old school ghosts and goblins. Not to mention most of the legacy games weren't multiplayer.

I think what we are all forgetting is that good gameplay is good gameplay. and what always used to frustrate me was the "Cheating AI" that was in many games, be it cars that simply are faster than yours, bugs, or the super micro RTS ai's who can place a whole base faster than you can hit the hotkey to place one. Generally the best Games weren't the hardest but just had the best gameplay for what ever reason.

now adays the ultimate in difficulty to me is multiplayer playing your friends or random people as there no limit to the difficulty and it adds the greatest element to the depth a good example would be smash brothers melee where I haven't touched the single player in a good 2 years but still play it a few times a week and I'm still getting better

24th Oct 2006, 09:34	#1
WilHarris Just another nobody Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Oxford Posts: 2,671	Ghosts, Goblins and difficulty levels http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/...ficulty/1.html

24th Oct 2006, 09:44	#2
dire_wolf Revelation Machine Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK Posts: 2,112	Nooooo, is it true you can only get the game on PSP? This is probably my favourite series of all time, it almost brings a tear to my eye remembering playing through it as a child. Anyway, i'm off to ebay to pick up a PSP . . . This is GnG, it's meant to be hard, it was an arcade game therefore it was designed to rip you off for all you were worth Fans of the series will more than likely be put off if it is too easy __________________ Marching Into History, Marching Into War, Marching Into History To Function As A Whore "Don't Fear Citizens! TAD KNOWS HIS RAID!"

24th Oct 2006, 09:58	#3
BioSniper I Mod, Therefore I Own Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the south Posts: 3,454	When I played it I found it FAR too hard as the control system is plain pap. You cannot jump and then move a direction after you have jumped unlike most platformers. If you stand still and jump you only jump upwards. WTF is with that?! __________________ My Flickr :: Bit-tech Flickr Wii: 1792 1527 2926 7945 :: Xbox Live: BioSnipr :: PSN: Biosnipr

24th Oct 2006, 10:26	#4
kenco_uk I feel your presents. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bourne, Lincolnshire, UK Posts: 6,302	I can certainly relate to the comments regarding the original Ghosts n Goblins. It was ruddy hard and I think, at the time, I only managed once to get to level three. I think a fair amount of blame is laid at the doorstep of the american market; from reading Edge magazine since issue 1, there certainly seems to be some stigma with the fact that 'if a game's too easy, it's made for the american market' as apparently they get quite upset if they've paid for a game and can't get past the first couple of levels. Tbh, I would tend to agree for the most part. It's not that the games are bad, they're just easier to complete. Take Prey, for example. Easy to complete (nigh on impossible to actually die) but nonetheless a very enjoyable game because of its scalectrix-storyline. Obviously, it's a careful balance of either storyline or variety to keep a player going in this intance. __________________ MSI X58M - i7 920 4Ghz - 6GB Corsair - GTX260 648/2520 ::: Vote for bit-tech T - theevilelephant - "it sounded like bouncing around on a pogo stick, screaming in chinese while occasionally throwing a cat at a door."

24th Oct 2006, 10:48	#6
Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,461	This is what God Mode is for. Sometimes I like a challenge, survivng the boss, figuring out the puzzles, etc. Other time I just want to kill stuff, and lots of it. The only game I remember off hand that had this built in was Mechwarrior 2 which had a mode where you chose an enviroment and it just kept sending enimies at you until you died or it ran out of enemies (about 15). I sometimes wish that developers would add a "frag fest" mode where you were invinciable and could just kill things until you got bored. Wouldn't take much to do and would be a nice extra. __________________ Notice: If we see you flaming we will assume you are on fire and take appropriate measures - The Bit-Tech Fire Brigade.

24th Oct 2006, 10:35	#5
Hovis Multimodder Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 120	I'd just like to point out at this juncture that although Alex slates the easiness of Oblivion I can confirm, having seen it with my own eyes, that he did have to restart the game from the beginning on the first time of playing because his original character was too much of a wuss to take the job on. For those who like their Oblivion with the added panic factor by the way, there's a little thing out there in the Internets somewhere called the Adrenalin mod. It does several things but the most noticeable is that it increases the number of enemies that spawn by about four times. No more buffed baddies when you get to high levels, just dozens of the bleeders. It turns an what in the vanilla game would be an ordinary scrap with a handful of skeletons into an exercise in crowd control.

24th Oct 2006, 11:55	#9
yakyb CK is God!!! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,067	i completly agree with this topics take on oblivion what is the point in getting higher levels when all it does is make the people you fight harder the obvious flaw to this was with the arena which was so easy to complete it was laughable surely this should have had to be a challenge like the battle square in FF7 which could only be completed after lvl 50 due to the diffculty of the bosses i played oblivion for a while (long enough to get the nice house and all the furnishings) but just grew bored of the constant same fight occuring over and over if i knew that by getting stronger things would start to fall in my prescence i would have continued playing but when things like wolves continue to get harder and harder it just isnt fun you should be able to swat these things aside as mentioned and have to worry whilst in dungeons not spend equal amount of time worrying bout beasts wherever your are. now in referance to ghosts & goblins awesome game i remember playing this in its yellow and green glory. the arguement about it being too hard, now when was the last time anyof us was challenged by a FPS or platform game. the only game that i have had difficulty with recently is with Gran Turismo 3 trying to get the last License now that was fun! (and of course WOW but that was only due to the amount of time required before you could get anywhere) i have crysis, dark messiah and C&C3 all on preorder i hope these live up to some of the hype they are receiving i reckon 2 of them will

24th Oct 2006, 13:16	#11
gm_crop Minimodder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 34	Commandos, Hidden & Dangerous... Anyone stop playing them because they were rock solid? Not me.

24th Oct 2006, 15:20	#13
Neogumbercules Ultramodder Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,494	How dare you make an article about game difficulty and not at least mention Contra 3: The Alien Wars? It didn't even let you see the real ending unless you beat it on hard. The Alien Wars was released in Europe and Australia under the Probotector label, as Super Probotector: Alien Rebels. __________________ Abit AB9 Pro, Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 CPU, 2GB Corsair DDR2 6400, nVidia 8800GT, Seagate 160 GB HDD. Last edited by Neogumbercules; 24th Oct 2006 at 16:32.

24th Oct 2006, 16:35	#15
xPaladin Minimodder Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 31	Great article! I think the idea of "cinematic gaming" is lame and that more games need to be made that provide challenge instead of dazzling with effects. Both Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 had the same problem: each "scene" was more or less choreographed to play out a certain way, so the game play got very predictable -- and boring -- after a short time. The original System Shock excelled in all aspects here. It had a compelling plot and lots of "first person" cinematic game play (namely listening to log files or being taunted by SHODAN), but on top of that, the difficulty was customizable to the extreme. In fact, each aspect of the game was customizable. Puzzle masters could crank up the puzzle difficulty significantly (they were actual mini-games too -- SS2 puzzles were severely watered down in comparison). Good gunners could increase critter damage and spawning. And then, TRUE hotshots could find out if they could indeed beat the game in under 7 hours with some or all of the above pretenses -- not easy at all! Honestly, System Shock was decades before it's time. If you missed this game, go out and buy it or download it, and use dosbox to get it playing 386 style. Right now.

24th Oct 2006, 16:47	#16
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	i always have my rule of wishdom: "if I die 25 times in a level and there is no progession and only more frustration with each dead. Get cheat and try again." oooohh the relief... the relief... Oh and most of the time (especaly in RPG games) i get bored after 5 days of nonstop playing. I get a cheat to progess "quicker" through a game. Just to get done with it. See in my world i have limited time to spend. And too much gametime is wasting my lifeforce called aging.. __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

24th Oct 2006, 21:19	#18
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,941	sigh Whyfor did you start with an oblivion reference? For those people who sit there and bitch that the scaling difficulty breaks the game, i have this to say - it just means that you weak people couldn't do it. If you want the ability to flyswat, just enchant your weapons, and armour to max out your strength, and light things up while you zap em. That should do it. __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690

25th Oct 2006, 03:42	#20
metarinka I am a Dremel Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,621	What about varying Difficulties, most games give you an option to change them, save for the older games where the replayability was in trying to learn and master the levels (no small feat in metal slug, contra etc) However in modern titles the content is usually more-so than you can beat in one sitting and plays out more cinematically due to graphics (not that the excuses the gameplay, but it doesn't hinder it). So difficulty and core gameplay elements are over what you have in say old school ghosts and goblins. Not to mention most of the legacy games weren't multiplayer. I think what we are all forgetting is that good gameplay is good gameplay. and what always used to frustrate me was the "Cheating AI" that was in many games, be it cars that simply are faster than yours, bugs, or the super micro RTS ai's who can place a whole base faster than you can hit the hotkey to place one. Generally the best Games weren't the hardest but just had the best gameplay for what ever reason. now adays the ultimate in difficulty to me is multiplayer playing your friends or random people as there no limit to the difficulty and it adds the greatest element to the depth a good example would be smash brothers melee where I haven't touched the single player in a good 2 years but still play it a few times a week and I'm still getting better __________________ project: Orbitoid project: Orbitoid discussion Project: Angry-9 the WWII radio