Vista will support EAX after all - bit-tech.net Forums

Da Dego · 28th Nov 2006, 18:48

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/11...eax_after_all/

_DTM2000_ · 28th Nov 2006, 19:40

But surely this new translation from DirectX to OpenAL will have to be done on the CPU, so that will take up clock cycles and reduce performance? Or maybe it will be done on the sound card, does anyone know more details on this?

Da Dego · 28th Nov 2006, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by _DTM2000_

But surely this new translation from DirectX to OpenAL will have to be done on the CPU, so that will take up clock cycles and reduce performance? Or maybe it will be done on the sound card, does anyone know more details on this?

As of right now, details are horrendously murky.

My understanding of the new Vista driver models tells me that this will be converted via CPU, as you can't even get the sound data off the chip until it's OpenAL. So you'll still suffer the same (if not worse) performance hit, but at least you'll have decent sound. Therefore, the power of the X-Fi would also not be the reason why it's the chosen one and others aren't...

Kipman725 · 28th Nov 2006, 19:57

This is a good thing as it removes the need for expensive sound cards for good positional audio. Creatives standard of positional audio is only supported by creative sound cards which is annoying as they happen to be crap for listening to music. By doing the positional audio on the CPU a better card can be used without any loss in the quality of the positional audio.

DXR_13KE · 28th Nov 2006, 20:04

what other hardware vista wont support? this is getting real bad, this remembers me the time when i had to scrap my lovely functional scanner because of XP

.

Colonel Sanders · 28th Nov 2006, 20:26

Looks like I'll be hanging onto XP for a while. . .

Off topic, I'm recalling how my A+ hardware teacher constantly insists that Microsoft created EAX and every other good thing that happened to PCs withing the last 3 decades. . .

L J

cjmUK · 28th Nov 2006, 21:43

Right, well I've got an Audigy 4 card I cant get working Vista, and now it looks like it never will. It's maybe 9 month old and was bought as a cheaper way of getting good EAX support.

Clearly, Creative have had the last of my money, so if I need a new card, what are the recommended non-Creative cards?

speedfreek · 28th Nov 2006, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmwork2

Right, well I've got an Audigy 4 card I cant get working Vista, and now it looks like it never will. It's maybe 9 month old and was bought as a cheaper way of getting good EAX support.

Clearly, Creative have had the last of my money, so if I need a new card, what are the recommended non-Creative cards?

Bit did a review of a decent one not too long ago, look through the hardware archives.

I still see no advantage to vista.

_DTM2000_ · 28th Nov 2006, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Dego

As of right now, details are horrendously murky.

My understanding of the new Vista driver models tells me that this will be converted via CPU, as you can't even get the sound data off the chip until it's OpenAL. So you'll still suffer the same (if not worse) performance hit, but at least you'll have decent sound. Therefore, the power of the X-Fi would also not be the reason why it's the chosen one and others aren't...

Thanks for the info

This doesn't sound too good. I'm just glad I've never given into the EAX hype and just stuck with on-board sound. The only time I'd buy an add-in sound card would be for sound recording or other pro-audio usage. But I certainly wouldn't buy a Creative card for that anyway.

Despite any hardware compatibility, or any other issues, I'll definitely be getting Vista pre-installed on my next PC at work (early next year). As for my home PC, I think I'll wait until Vista has been out for at least 6 months and then just get a whole new PC that's fully Vista compatible. I'll be well over due for an upgrade by then anyway.

overdosedelusion · 28th Nov 2006, 22:16

oh thank god i have x-fi, this is a nightmare im glad im clear of

Kipman725 · 28th Nov 2006, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmwork2

Right, well I've got an Audigy 4 card I cant get working Vista, and now it looks like it never will. It's maybe 9 month old and was bought as a cheaper way of getting good EAX support.

Clearly, Creative have had the last of my money, so if I need a new card, what are the recommended non-Creative cards?

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/esi-julia/

this is ment to be awsome when hooked up to a nice external DAC even though it has relativly low cost. No good for surround sound though if thats your thing... personaly Im of the opinion that with good enough stereo headphones suround sound is a usless gimick. But some people like speakers wherupon it may be of use.

Aankhen · 28th Nov 2006, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmwork2

Right, well I've got an Audigy 4 card I cant get working Vista, and now it looks like it never will. It's maybe 9 month old and was bought as a cheaper way of getting good EAX support.

The article says older cards won't be supported initially.

cjmUK · 29th Nov 2006, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aankhen

The article says older cards won't be supported initially.

So I should go with out any sound for 3 months, then without EAX for another, what...6 or 9 months...?

antikill · 29th Nov 2006, 00:21

what about the number of cores we have on processors today 1-2 or 4 cores plus hyperthreading on top of that which we didnt have back in the day of amd-xp and p4

say if we have 2 cores 1 core be maxed out for the game the other could be used for sound+sorting out back ground data surly microsoft have thort this one threw.

or say we get the 4 core cpus that has just come out, and get them 6 months down the line which surely be more than powerful then the games need so it could be something like the main game on core 1+2 and sound+ back ground dataon core 3 and physics on core 4 .

Aankhen · 29th Nov 2006, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjmwork2

So I should go with out any sound for 3 months, then without EAX for another, what...6 or 9 months...?

Well, yeah, that sucks.

Spaced_invader · 29th Nov 2006, 08:37

tbh If someone is that into gaming that they really believe this will make a huge difference to their frame rate and gaming experience they should try stopping other background tasks such as teamspeak and IRC.. Looking at todays pc's they can hadle all that brunt and if all they are doing is going for a frame rate then switching off the sound engine would help a lot...

[USRF]Obiwan · 29th Nov 2006, 09:45

Well i dont think it has that lot of impact on fps in games. I mean not that you notice a 2fps difference in gameplay anyway. If your (onboard) sound (card) supports dolby 5.1 then youre better of anyway becasue almost all games suport 5.1 surround nowadays. And i really dont notice any difference between EAX and 5.1s on my systems with and without a xfi card.

And dont blame it on vista. but on the driver support from Creative. They need to make EAX work on vista. And not the way around...

cjmUK · 29th Nov 2006, 10:01

I largely agree with you Obiwan that the problem lies with Creative, and furthermore it is a problem they have been aware about from sometime. I can't help but feel that it's part apathy and part marketing - trying to shift a few more X-Fi cards.

However, I would say that I noticed an improvement in both sound quality and effect, and a slight improvement in FPS (or less stutter) when I went to an Audigy 4 card from an onboard AC97 device.

Suddenly, I could distinguish footsteps and their direction in the likes of BF2...

yakyb · 29th Nov 2006, 14:48

well it seems like the best bet would be to just wait until creative bring out a vista based Sound card that sets the standard for game development now that any new games made will not be using EAX as non will want the performance hit

Redbeaver · 29th Nov 2006, 15:09

goddamn, so my Audigy wont have any EAX support in Vista? f**k u, Microsoft... yes, MS, not Creative... well probably both... but its MS that setup the Dx10 driver architecture to have a different model....

i bet u MS talked to Creative agreeing on 'hey, lets just support xfi so creative can release brand new more expensive cards to work properly on vista!'

28th Nov 2006, 18:48	#1
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	Vista will support EAX after all http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/11...eax_after_all/ __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

28th Nov 2006, 19:57	#4
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	This is a good thing as it removes the need for expensive sound cards for good positional audio. Creatives standard of positional audio is only supported by creative sound cards which is annoying as they happen to be crap for listening to music. By doing the positional audio on the CPU a better card can be used without any loss in the quality of the positional audio. __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

28th Nov 2006, 20:04	#5
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,461	what other hardware vista wont support? this is getting real bad, this remembers me the time when i had to scrap my lovely functional scanner because of XP . __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

28th Nov 2006, 20:26	#6
Colonel Sanders Ultramodder Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Middle of nowhere(in USA) Posts: 1,193	Looks like I'll be hanging onto XP for a while. . . Off topic, I'm recalling how my A+ hardware teacher constantly insists that Microsoft created EAX and every other good thing that happened to PCs withing the last 3 decades. . . L J __________________ "Play a Windows CD backwards and hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, play it forwards and it installs Windows."

28th Nov 2006, 21:43	#7
cjmUK Old git. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,936	Right, well I've got an Audigy 4 card I cant get working Vista, and now it looks like it never will. It's maybe 9 month old and was bought as a cheaper way of getting good EAX support. Clearly, Creative have had the last of my money, so if I need a new card, what are the recommended non-Creative cards? __________________ P180B, Q6600 [with Thermalright HR-01+/Noctua NF-P12], 8GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500, EVGA GTX 260 SSC, 3.75TB worth of Samsung F1s, running on Windows 7 RC

28th Nov 2006, 19:40	#2
_DTM2000_ Senior Super Douche Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 229	But surely this new translation from DirectX to OpenAL will have to be done on the CPU, so that will take up clock cycles and reduce performance? Or maybe it will be done on the sound card, does anyone know more details on this?

28th Nov 2006, 22:16	#10
overdosedelusion I mostly come at night, mostly.. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 1,275	oh thank god i have x-fi, this is a nightmare im glad im clear of __________________ Lian-LI PCA71B \| DFI DK X38-T2R \| q6600 G0 \| ATI 4870X2 \| 4GB 800MHz \| Enermax Galaxy \| Samsung 40" 1080p \| X-Fi Fatality Pro (Games) \| M-Audio 24/96 \| Musical Fidelity V-Dac \| Graham Slee Solo 2009 Headphone Amp \| AKG K701/Audio Technica ATH-W1000 \|

29th Nov 2006, 00:21	#14
antikill What's a Dremel? Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1	what about the number of cores we have on processors today 1-2 or 4 cores plus hyperthreading on top of that which we didnt have back in the day of amd-xp and p4 say if we have 2 cores 1 core be maxed out for the game the other could be used for sound+sorting out back ground data surly microsoft have thort this one threw. or say we get the 4 core cpus that has just come out, and get them 6 months down the line which surely be more than powerful then the games need so it could be something like the main game on core 1+2 and sound+ back ground dataon core 3 and physics on core 4 .

29th Nov 2006, 08:37	#16
Spaced_invader Supermodder Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: UK Posts: 493	tbh If someone is that into gaming that they really believe this will make a huge difference to their frame rate and gaming experience they should try stopping other background tasks such as teamspeak and IRC.. Looking at todays pc's they can hadle all that brunt and if all they are doing is going for a frame rate then switching off the sound engine would help a lot... __________________ email me: echo "'1+&9#1)+/6@)0#+/.%20" \| tr "#--/-=" a-z those that should know, know...

29th Nov 2006, 09:45	#17
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	Well i dont think it has that lot of impact on fps in games. I mean not that you notice a 2fps difference in gameplay anyway. If your (onboard) sound (card) supports dolby 5.1 then youre better of anyway becasue almost all games suport 5.1 surround nowadays. And i really dont notice any difference between EAX and 5.1s on my systems with and without a xfi card. And dont blame it on vista. but on the driver support from Creative. They need to make EAX work on vista. And not the way around... __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

29th Nov 2006, 10:01	#18
cjmUK Old git. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,936	I largely agree with you Obiwan that the problem lies with Creative, and furthermore it is a problem they have been aware about from sometime. I can't help but feel that it's part apathy and part marketing - trying to shift a few more X-Fi cards. However, I would say that I noticed an improvement in both sound quality and effect, and a slight improvement in FPS (or less stutter) when I went to an Audigy 4 card from an onboard AC97 device. Suddenly, I could distinguish footsteps and their direction in the likes of BF2... __________________ P180B, Q6600 [with Thermalright HR-01+/Noctua NF-P12], 8GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500, EVGA GTX 260 SSC, 3.75TB worth of Samsung F1s, running on Windows 7 RC

29th Nov 2006, 14:48	#19
yakyb CK is God!!! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,061	well it seems like the best bet would be to just wait until creative bring out a vista based Sound card that sets the standard for game development now that any new games made will not be using EAX as non will want the performance hit

29th Nov 2006, 15:09	#20
Redbeaver Hypermodder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ontario, CANADA Posts: 718	goddamn, so my Audigy wont have any EAX support in Vista? f**k u, Microsoft... yes, MS, not Creative... well probably both... but its MS that setup the Dx10 driver architecture to have a different model.... i bet u MS talked to Creative agreeing on 'hey, lets just support xfi so creative can release brand new more expensive cards to work properly on vista!'