First Look: AMD's 690 series chipset - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 2nd Mar 2007, 14:52

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...chipset/1.html

Bindibadgi · 2nd Mar 2007, 15:03

Interestingly, I've just taken off the heatsink from the Asus board and the RS690 northbridge is labelled slightly differently!

http://www.bit-tech.net/content_imag.../rs690g-nb.jpg

Omnituens · 2nd Mar 2007, 16:04

also, why in the FPS test does it say "time in seconds - lower equals better"?

Lazlow · 2nd Mar 2007, 16:11

Does this mean AMD/ATI are going to end up dominating the mobile market? At least they're now concentrating on it and producing some decent kit.

hughwi · 2nd Mar 2007, 16:16

"but it was delayed because of *dalays" *delays
"Join us as * delve down inside" *we?
"Radeon X1250 it isn’t *an derived" *-an?

Thats just me being picky though

the review is really informative and this chipset looks like it could be a major bonus for use in multimedia rig

Tim S · 2nd Mar 2007, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnituens

also, why in the FPS test does it say "time in seconds - lower equals better"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughwi

"but it was delayed because of *dalays" *delays
"Join us as * delve down inside" *we?
"Radeon X1250 it isn’t *an derived" *-an?

Thanks, fixed - drop me a PM if there's anything else.

randosome · 2nd Mar 2007, 18:23

i was wondering if anyone could tell me what that glue like stuff around the edge is (maybe even glue

) and what its for, always wondered about

Quote:

Although for DMA access everything still has to go through the CPU because of the on-board memory controller. Obviously, this is different on Intel boards that can access memory directly from the northbridge - it's horses for courses as to which is the better solution, though.

Wow thanks for that info, that's quite interesting, i would have guessed that the north bridge also connected to the memory
But either way, only 1 thing can be read from memory at a time, so whether its the NB reading it or the CPU - i guess it doesn't make a huge difference, plus the CPU really needs the memory access more

trig · 2nd Mar 2007, 18:57

am i mistakin, or is the msi board the one with four memory slots and asus only has 2?

Tim S · 2nd Mar 2007, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by trig

am i mistakin, or is the msi board the one with four memory slots and asus only has 2?

Nope, the board with the Asus logo on it appears to have four memory slots: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...chipset/2.html

traderonline · 2nd Mar 2007, 19:21

ati x1250 is a modified version of x700 series

we cant expect top scores in benchmarks. anyway this will perform far better than the nvidia 6100 onboard GPU solution

Bindibadgi · 2nd Mar 2007, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by randosome

i was wondering if anyone could tell me what that glue like stuff around the edge is (maybe even glue

) and what its for, always wondered about

It's just a bonding material used to seal the edges of the die to the packaging.

My fault on the graphs too!

Renoir · 3rd Mar 2007, 03:38

First nice review! I particularly liked seeing what you lose in non-graphics performance by sharing 256MB ram with the IGP. About 0-6% by my calculations which is pleasantly lower than I was expecting.

Quote:

Built in TDMS for dual link DVI / HDMI v1.3 with HDCP compatibility

I've read elsewhere that the display controllers are single link only?

Quote:

versus the RS690's 64-bit DDR2 link through the CPU's memory controller

I don't understand this. Could you explain why RS690 doesn't get to use both of the memory channels in the memory controller (128bit).

Rumour has it Intel are working on a new driver for the G965 which should result in a large improvement in the current compatibility and performance issues. Could you confirm this?

Nature · 3rd Mar 2007, 09:09

Are these boards Micro atx? Socket AM2?

Bindibadgi · 3rd Mar 2007, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renoir

First nice review! I particularly liked seeing what you lose in non-graphics performance by sharing 256MB ram with the IGP. About 0-6% by my calculations which is pleasantly lower than I was expecting.

I've read elsewhere that the display controllers are single link only?

I don't understand this. Could you explain why RS690 doesn't get to use both of the memory channels in the memory controller (128bit).

Rumour has it Intel are working on a new driver for the G965 which should result in a large improvement in the current compatibility and performance issues. Could you confirm this?

Tim was using the 30" Dell at the time, but I will test if it's dual link. I'm pretty certain it IS dual link since it has all the necessary pins for Dual Link DVI-D.

I've ammended the article. For some reason my memory told me that DDR is 32bit to match CPUs (hence you used to only need one, unlike SIMMs), so dual channel was 64bit.

No idea if Intel is working on a new driver, but even if they are the hardware to do the work isn't there. Even if they manage to get it DX9 compatible it'll still be completely unplayable.

Fusen · 4th Mar 2007, 16:00

you say it will play pitifully in 640x480 yet you mention the detail settings are the same as other benchmarks you make and if lowered the frame rates would be higher.

When you say the benchmarks for other hardware are you talking about the top end GFX cards that you look at? e.g. 8800

If so, why would anyone play with high details but a resolution of 640x480 when they could bump it up to a playable 1024x768 and just lower the unneeded detail.

It's not as if anyone would buy this board and then try and play all the latest games on a 30" LCD, they'd be looking to play the common games like cs:source as a playable fps which would ignore most shiny details.

JoeFresco · 4th Mar 2007, 16:03

I don't think the GMA X3000 in the i965 got a fair shake at all. Please spend some more time with the drivers to get it running the games you benchmarked. Xbit Labs were able to get reasonable frame rates out of the X3000 in Quake 4 and Half Life 2.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chi...gf6150_12.html

At the moment, yours is the only comparison of the sort, and I'm very interested in the results of these tests.

g3n3tiX · 4th Mar 2007, 16:30

Featured on Engadget !!
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/04/a...ugh-its-paces/

Renoir · 5th Mar 2007, 00:12

The review by Anandtech says the 690G supports 2 independent display controllers with both being digital and HDCP compliant. However they mention that HDCP only works for one of the digital connections at a time. Given this info I will paste the same questions I asked there but haven't had a reply to namely:

1) How do they accomplish having HDCP support for both dvi and hdmi given that they're on independent display controllers? My understanding was that seperate crypto ROMs were required for each controller/output. Simple answer would be that they indeed have 2 sets of keys but I assume this isn't the case given that they only let you use HDCP on one digital output at a time. So how does that all work?

2) How is vga implemented in the display controllers? 1=HDMI 2=DVI-I(hence dvi or vga) or some other configuration?

3) In a related point (upcoming mobile version of chipset) What connection do laptops use internally for their screens? I've asked this question on a few other sites but never got an answer. Surely someone must know? The reason I ask is I'm interested in getting a laptop in future which supports hdcp for both the laptop screen AND via an external digital connection to a larger display.

Sorry for being long winded but would really appreciate any info you can give.

Bindibadgi · 5th Mar 2007, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFresco

I don't think the GMA X3000 in the i965 got a fair shake at all. Please spend some more time with the drivers to get it running the games you benchmarked. Xbit Labs were able to get reasonable frame rates out of the X3000 in Quake 4 and Half Life 2.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chi...gf6150_12.html

At the moment, yours is the only comparison of the sort, and I'm very interested in the results of these tests.

I will go back to it for the next 690G review, but everytime I tried a DX9 game it threw up a DX error. Our tests were run on maximum quality to provide a direct comparison with other reviews, just the resolution has changed, although in the next one we will lower all the settings as well.

The CryptoROMs are specific to each video output afaik, but every board I've seen bar the Asus has only one digital output so it's not mattered. Asus use a PCI-Express card for HDMI and HDTV out, which wasn't included in our initial package since it's a pre-production jobbie and we just literally got the board (no drivers even, and AMD doesn't have any on their site either

).

Don't understand question 2?!

DVI and HDMI use internal TDMS, which are then disabled in the value model. You can change outputs in the ATI display driver.

Laptop: no idea, depends on the specific LCD controller used in the laptop. Not many people take apart review samples they get because it usually means irreversibly breaking the unit.
Unless your laptop has blu-ray, is HDCP needed?

Renoir · 5th Mar 2007, 14:35

Quote:

The CryptoROMs are specific to each video output afaik, but every board I've seen bar the Asus has only one digital output so it's not mattered. Asus use a PCI-Express card for HDMI and HDTV out, which wasn't included in our initial package since it's a pre-production jobbie and we just literally got the board (no drivers even, and AMD doesn't have any on their site either ).

Yeah confusion definitely results from the fact that what a chipset supports and what the mobo maker implements isn't always the same. If the crypto roms are specific to each digital output (which I also thought was the case) then why is HDCP only supported via one output at a time? If the cryptoroms are part of the chipset (and hence there are 2 sets) then I see no reason for limiting their use to one digital output at a time unless it's an issue of drivers.

Quote:

Don't understand question 2?! DVI and HDMI use internal TDMS, which are then disabled in the value model. You can change outputs in the ATI display driver.

Sorry for not being clear. Only interested in 690G. There are 2 display controllers. What does each support? E.g. Controller 1=HDMI 2=Dvi & VGA (hence DVI-I) and it's up to the mobo maker which of these outputs they support or some other configuration. The promo stuff for the chipset says it supports 2 independent digital outputs and vga but doesn't say how exactly these outputs are arranged within the chipset.

Quote:

Laptop: no idea, depends on the specific LCD controller used in the laptop. Not many people take apart review samples they get because it usually means irreversibly breaking the unit.
Unless your laptop has blu-ray, is HDCP needed?

Yeah as mentioned no one's been able to answer that question

The reason I'm interested is because I'm wandering what my next laptop requires in order to play hi def dvd's should I choose to replace the optical drive it'll come with with a hidef one once the prices come down. I plan to buy a new laptop later this year so won't be able to afford one that comes with a hidef drive and so would need to buy one seperately further down the line. Essentially I want laptop that's ready in every way for next gen dvd's but without initially coming with the necessary optical drive. Hope that makes sense

2nd Mar 2007, 14:52	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	First Look: AMD's 690 series chipset http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...chipset/1.html __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

2nd Mar 2007, 15:03	#2
Bindibadgi Richard Swinburne bit-tech Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Omnipwntent Posts: 28,284	Interestingly, I've just taken off the heatsink from the Asus board and the RS690 northbridge is labelled slightly differently! http://www.bit-tech.net/content_imag.../rs690g-nb.jpg __________________ Made you look, made you stare, made you clicked this in your underwear! Den of Geek!

2nd Mar 2007, 16:04	#3
Omnituens Supermodder Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stockport Posts: 412	also, why in the FPS test does it say "time in seconds - lower equals better"? __________________ Current Rig: i7 D0 2.66GHz, 6GB 1066MHz Corsair "Dominator", 285 GTX.

2nd Mar 2007, 16:11	#4
Lazlow I have a dremel. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Lincoln, UK Posts: 1,464	Does this mean AMD/ATI are going to end up dominating the mobile market? At least they're now concentrating on it and producing some decent kit. __________________ Logs: Red Nineteen\|Pink PC Links: slickhouse.com\|Free file upload

2nd Mar 2007, 18:57	#8
trig sweet sweet hangin joben Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cardboard box outside of sears Posts: 1,638	am i mistakin, or is the msi board the one with four memory slots and asus only has 2? __________________ I love me some me e8400 @ 4.45 ghz..ac freezer 7..2 gigs patriot extreme 1150 mhz..abit ip35-pro..xfx 4770 with asus top bios @ 926 core/1077 memory..antec p182b..corsair hx620..seagate 500 gb 32mb cache THE best site ever...1600 signatures under the same avatar...time for a new one

2nd Mar 2007, 16:16	#5
hughwi Hypermodder Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Southampton Uni / London Posts: 884	"but it was delayed because of dalays" delays "Join us as * delve down inside" we? "Radeon X1250 it isn’t an derived" *-an? Thats just me being picky though the review is really informative and this chipset looks like it could be a major bonus for use in multimedia rig

2nd Mar 2007, 19:21	#10
traderonline Minimodder Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 30	ati x1250 is a modified version of x700 series we cant expect top scores in benchmarks. anyway this will perform far better than the nvidia 6100 onboard GPU solution __________________ Prank Videos - Calls - Funny Clips My Other Favorite Money making forums: http://www.talkgold.com/forum http://www.thehyipforum.com

3rd Mar 2007, 09:09	#13
Nature Supermodder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jinan, China Posts: 417	Are these boards Micro atx? Socket AM2? __________________ Peace, Love, Empathy, Respect, Generosity, Smiles, and Hugs

4th Mar 2007, 16:00	#15
Fusen Supermodder Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kent Uni Posts: 350	you say it will play pitifully in 640x480 yet you mention the detail settings are the same as other benchmarks you make and if lowered the frame rates would be higher. When you say the benchmarks for other hardware are you talking about the top end GFX cards that you look at? e.g. 8800 If so, why would anyone play with high details but a resolution of 640x480 when they could bump it up to a playable 1024x768 and just lower the unneeded detail. It's not as if anyone would buy this board and then try and play all the latest games on a 30" LCD, they'd be looking to play the common games like cs:source as a playable fps which would ignore most shiny details.

4th Mar 2007, 16:03	#16
JoeFresco What's a Dremel? Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 5	I don't think the GMA X3000 in the i965 got a fair shake at all. Please spend some more time with the drivers to get it running the games you benchmarked. Xbit Labs were able to get reasonable frame rates out of the X3000 in Quake 4 and Half Life 2. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chi...gf6150_12.html At the moment, yours is the only comparison of the sort, and I'm very interested in the results of these tests.

4th Mar 2007, 16:30	#17
g3n3tiX Resident frenchie Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: localhost Posts: 593	Featured on Engadget !! http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/04/a...ugh-its-paces/ __________________ I also have a MTBF.

5th Mar 2007, 00:12	#18
Renoir Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 190	The review by Anandtech says the 690G supports 2 independent display controllers with both being digital and HDCP compliant. However they mention that HDCP only works for one of the digital connections at a time. Given this info I will paste the same questions I asked there but haven't had a reply to namely: 1) How do they accomplish having HDCP support for both dvi and hdmi given that they're on independent display controllers? My understanding was that seperate crypto ROMs were required for each controller/output. Simple answer would be that they indeed have 2 sets of keys but I assume this isn't the case given that they only let you use HDCP on one digital output at a time. So how does that all work? 2) How is vga implemented in the display controllers? 1=HDMI 2=DVI-I(hence dvi or vga) or some other configuration? 3) In a related point (upcoming mobile version of chipset) What connection do laptops use internally for their screens? I've asked this question on a few other sites but never got an answer. Surely someone must know? The reason I ask is I'm interested in getting a laptop in future which supports hdcp for both the laptop screen AND via an external digital connection to a larger display. Sorry for being long winded but would really appreciate any info you can give.