Turkey bans YouTube - bit-tech.net Forums

Da Dego · 8th Mar 2007, 14:15

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/03..._bans_YouTube/

Just an advance warning, please keep the conversation civil - race wars and civil liberties are easy to get a little too passionate about, and we have members from each of these countries.

atanum141 · 8th Mar 2007, 14:24

A very bold thing to do on the Turkish half. Shame the Greeks didnt stop any of this childsplay before it got worse.

DougEdey · 8th Mar 2007, 14:31

Big shame.

Tulatin · 8th Mar 2007, 14:45

Aye, sad indeed; but sort of painfully ironic to read this after watching SP 11x01

randosome · 8th Mar 2007, 17:17

Damn - wheres that video

funny isn't it, stunts like this just publicise the whole problem - Also i find it amusing that insulting "turkishness" is against the law - lol

I also find it a bit sad how much their reacting to it, i mean there are plenty of racist videos on youtube, but it seems like this is just being blown out of proportion

Rich_13 · 8th Mar 2007, 17:19

Good idea. It does say its temporary so maybe these immature actions will stop when it comes back (although I doubt sadly).

OtakuHawk · 8th Mar 2007, 18:00

what the hell is wrong with you guys? honestly. get along before I start knocking heads.

konsta · 8th Mar 2007, 18:24

I think that this case generally underscores the complete cultural transition that the internet represents, and how utterly incapable our existing institutions really are to deal with it.

As time goes by, we are going to see more and more of this sort of thing, and not just with youtube, or in non G8 countries. It's really impossible to know how our law will cope with this kind of problem - the internet is an almost insurmountable obstacle to it.

DXR_13KE · 8th Mar 2007, 21:02

i just watched this on the news..... hey... this is better than to start a war.....

pendragon · 8th Mar 2007, 21:29

wow.. way to overreact :-/ you call someone a bad name and the governement gets called in

alexandros1313 · 8th Mar 2007, 21:43

Exactly.Banning a whole site because some teenager thought it was funny to insult someone else is not acceptable. This kind of thing shouldn't happen in this day and age.It seems that Turkey has a long way to go until it is regarded as a fully democratic country.

Dreaming · 8th Mar 2007, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexandros1313

Exactly.Banning a whole site because some teenager thought it was funny to insult someone else is not acceptable. This kind of thing shouldn't happen in this day and age.It seems that Turkey has a long way to go until it is regarded as a fully democratic country.

I would like to point out that democracy is a system of politics where the rulers (and, in theory, decisions in the country, though in reality it's an elected dictatorship...) are voted in by a majority of the people in the population.

This ruling would be a case of authoritarianism, which is the opposite of liberalism, but you can have a democratic authoritarian society where there are many limits on freedom but you have the right to vote, or a democratic liberal society, or a despotic liberal society. Just, in general, they don't tend to go hand in hand.

Not trying to have a dig, I just think it's important when we start wars for democracy, that people realise what democracy is.

As for the ruling, I disagree in one sense that the government shouldn't interfere with freedoms, but I agree because it has shown the Turkish government is willing to see a conflict and stop it.

alexandros1313 · 9th Mar 2007, 07:28

Well said. My point was more about freedom than democracy per se, but your post explains it more thoroughly. Anyway, I don't think that the purpose of the ban was to stop a conflict, rather to stop these videos from being seen by the Turkish people. This is understandable, of course, but it seems to me that the Turks used a bazooka to kill a fly. Besides, before this ban almost nobody new of these videos but now everyone knows. Bad publicity is still publicity

west4sider · 9th Mar 2007, 08:44

And that comes from a country trying to join the European Union!!

A series of tubes · 9th Mar 2007, 13:47

Don't mean to be a bore but this has very little to do with freedom of the internet and everything to do with the relationship between Greece and Turkey on the one hand and nature of the Turkish state on the other. I'm not an expert but in case anyone really doesn't know the background I'll try to give you a relevant potted summary.

While there are obviously two sides to the story, the historical context from the point of view of the Greek makers and posters of the video is that their country was forcibly incorporated in the Ottoman Turk Empire for a long time and more recently, after they became independent, the Turks invaded and occupied the northern part of Greek Cyprus. Before you jump down my throat I would stress this is my best guess at their point of view, not my own! So yes the video is probably pretty childish but a sense of being kicked around will do that to people. And obviously the Turks react as they do partly because they see the same events, and others, very differently. If you want to get an idea of what this might feel like then think about England and Ireland during the worst of the troubles, times about 10?

In addition, the modern Turkish state is very much a construct and maintaining it's 'Turkishness' is very much part of that construct. Anything that is seen as challenging this it is regarded as very threatening. Some of the obvious challenges include: Kurdish or Armenian identity/separatism, challenges to the secular nature of the state, challenges to the position of the military, any suggestion that there was a genocide against the Armenians and, in this context, anything except great reverence to the state founder Ataturk who was apparently mocked in the video. Basically the Turkish Government will tend completely shut down any discussion or channel for discussion which leads to any of these 'sacred truths' being threatened.

Hence my total lack of surprise at the decision to shut down YouTube in Turkey. If something with similar content to the video had gone into a newspaper the government reaction wouldn't have been to demand a retraction or right of reply - they'd have shut down the paper. What I think is more interesting is what the govt will do if they really can't shut this kind of stuff out. And after this banning I'd expect there to be more jibes of this kind and more publicity for them. The Turkish govt probably don't have the technical ability or political clout to censor the internet in the way China has managed to do so what will they do next?

Anyway, enough of that. I'll leave you with the thought that wearing the wrong kind of hat is a criminal offence in Turkey....

A series of tubes

alexandros1313 · 9th Mar 2007, 15:33

That is an excellent summary of the troubled past between Greece and Turkey. Indeed Greece was conquered by the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century and won independence in the 19th century. Relations between Greece and Turkey are improving slowly, but Turkey still has problems with freedom of speech, minority rights and other things that all "western" nations take for granted. In addition to that, Turkey continues to occupy northern Cyprus and makes territorial claims against Greece frequently.The Greek government wants Turkey to join the EU in the hope that they will be forced to become more liberal.
I also agree with the poster above that Turkey needs to have a totalitarian mentality in order to stay united as a country.
I feel the need to point out that I am Greek, but I think that I am not biased and I certainly agree that the video that started this whole thing should never have been uploaded. Noone has a right to insult someone else's historical figures.

Jipa · 9th Mar 2007, 18:53

How come I'm not too surprised. I'm kinda pissed by the fact that there's even some sort of conversation if it should be part of EU! There's soooo much problems with human rights in that country it makes no sense.

It was the same thing with the images of mohammed! CMON THEY ARE FREAKING IMAGES/VIDEOS. Just ridiculous over-reaction.

Censoring the internets just isn't right.

meserlian · 10th Mar 2007, 10:42

hhmmm lol i am surprised that this didn't happen earlier. lol i can even bet that the guy who did it is from Cyprus, it would be so typical for a villager who knows how to use a computer to do so.
i am not even surprised one bit from the Turkish reaction, and i can also bet that youtube isn't the only website they ban.

8th Mar 2007, 14:15	#1
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	Turkey bans YouTube http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/03..._bans_YouTube/ Just an advance warning, please keep the conversation civil - race wars and civil liberties are easy to get a little too passionate about, and we have members from each of these countries. __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

8th Mar 2007, 14:24	#2
atanum141 I fapped to your post! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London Posts: 7,536	A very bold thing to do on the Turkish half. Shame the Greeks didnt stop any of this childsplay before it got worse. __________________ Welcome to Thunderdome, B*tch XBL: atanum141

8th Mar 2007, 14:31	#3
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	Big shame. __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter

8th Mar 2007, 14:45	#4
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,941	Aye, sad indeed; but sort of painfully ironic to read this after watching SP 11x01 __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690

8th Mar 2007, 17:19	#6
Rich_13 Hypermodder Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London /Essex Uni Posts: 716	Good idea. It does say its temporary so maybe these immature actions will stop when it comes back (although I doubt sadly). __________________ [Gaming laptop:][Intel Cour Duo2 T7200 ] [Nvidia7900GS GO] [1920x1200 display] [2GB DDR][Creative 6.1's ] My blog

8th Mar 2007, 17:17	#5
randosome Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 226	Damn - wheres that video funny isn't it, stunts like this just publicise the whole problem - Also i find it amusing that insulting "turkishness" is against the law - lol I also find it a bit sad how much their reacting to it, i mean there are plenty of racist videos on youtube, but it seems like this is just being blown out of proportion

8th Mar 2007, 18:00	#7
OtakuHawk Hypermodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 659	what the hell is wrong with you guys? honestly. get along before I start knocking heads. __________________ Ultra-Lurker

8th Mar 2007, 18:24	#8
konsta Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 92	I think that this case generally underscores the complete cultural transition that the internet represents, and how utterly incapable our existing institutions really are to deal with it. As time goes by, we are going to see more and more of this sort of thing, and not just with youtube, or in non G8 countries. It's really impossible to know how our law will cope with this kind of problem - the internet is an almost insurmountable obstacle to it.

8th Mar 2007, 21:02	#9
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,466	i just watched this on the news..... hey... this is better than to start a war..... __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

8th Mar 2007, 21:29	#10
pendragon I pickle they Join Date: May 2004 Location: Massachusetts,usa Posts: 629	wow.. way to overreact :-/ you call someone a bad name and the governement gets called in

8th Mar 2007, 21:43	#11
alexandros1313 Minimodder Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 22	Exactly.Banning a whole site because some teenager thought it was funny to insult someone else is not acceptable. This kind of thing shouldn't happen in this day and age.It seems that Turkey has a long way to go until it is regarded as a fully democratic country.

9th Mar 2007, 07:28	#13
alexandros1313 Minimodder Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 22	Well said. My point was more about freedom than democracy per se, but your post explains it more thoroughly. Anyway, I don't think that the purpose of the ban was to stop a conflict, rather to stop these videos from being seen by the Turkish people. This is understandable, of course, but it seems to me that the Turks used a bazooka to kill a fly. Besides, before this ban almost nobody new of these videos but now everyone knows. Bad publicity is still publicity

9th Mar 2007, 08:44	#14
west4sider What's a Dremel? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 6	And that comes from a country trying to join the European Union!!

9th Mar 2007, 13:47	#15
A series of tubes What's a Dremel? Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3	A little background... Don't mean to be a bore but this has very little to do with freedom of the internet and everything to do with the relationship between Greece and Turkey on the one hand and nature of the Turkish state on the other. I'm not an expert but in case anyone really doesn't know the background I'll try to give you a relevant potted summary. While there are obviously two sides to the story, the historical context from the point of view of the Greek makers and posters of the video is that their country was forcibly incorporated in the Ottoman Turk Empire for a long time and more recently, after they became independent, the Turks invaded and occupied the northern part of Greek Cyprus. Before you jump down my throat I would stress this is my best guess at their point of view, not my own! So yes the video is probably pretty childish but a sense of being kicked around will do that to people. And obviously the Turks react as they do partly because they see the same events, and others, very differently. If you want to get an idea of what this might feel like then think about England and Ireland during the worst of the troubles, times about 10? In addition, the modern Turkish state is very much a construct and maintaining it's 'Turkishness' is very much part of that construct. Anything that is seen as challenging this it is regarded as very threatening. Some of the obvious challenges include: Kurdish or Armenian identity/separatism, challenges to the secular nature of the state, challenges to the position of the military, any suggestion that there was a genocide against the Armenians and, in this context, anything except great reverence to the state founder Ataturk who was apparently mocked in the video. Basically the Turkish Government will tend completely shut down any discussion or channel for discussion which leads to any of these 'sacred truths' being threatened. Hence my total lack of surprise at the decision to shut down YouTube in Turkey. If something with similar content to the video had gone into a newspaper the government reaction wouldn't have been to demand a retraction or right of reply - they'd have shut down the paper. What I think is more interesting is what the govt will do if they really can't shut this kind of stuff out. And after this banning I'd expect there to be more jibes of this kind and more publicity for them. The Turkish govt probably don't have the technical ability or political clout to censor the internet in the way China has managed to do so what will they do next? Anyway, enough of that. I'll leave you with the thought that wearing the wrong kind of hat is a criminal offence in Turkey.... A series of tubes Last edited by A series of tubes; 9th Mar 2007 at 14:05.

9th Mar 2007, 15:33	#16
alexandros1313 Minimodder Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 22	That is an excellent summary of the troubled past between Greece and Turkey. Indeed Greece was conquered by the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century and won independence in the 19th century. Relations between Greece and Turkey are improving slowly, but Turkey still has problems with freedom of speech, minority rights and other things that all "western" nations take for granted. In addition to that, Turkey continues to occupy northern Cyprus and makes territorial claims against Greece frequently.The Greek government wants Turkey to join the EU in the hope that they will be forced to become more liberal. I also agree with the poster above that Turkey needs to have a totalitarian mentality in order to stay united as a country. I feel the need to point out that I am Greek, but I think that I am not biased and I certainly agree that the video that started this whole thing should never have been uploaded. Noone has a right to insult someone else's historical figures.

9th Mar 2007, 18:53	#17
Jipa Licenced idiot. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 3,057	How come I'm not too surprised. I'm kinda pissed by the fact that there's even some sort of conversation if it should be part of EU! There's soooo much problems with human rights in that country it makes no sense. It was the same thing with the images of mohammed! CMON THEY ARE FREAKING IMAGES/VIDEOS. Just ridiculous over-reaction. Censoring the internets just isn't right. __________________ Abit IP35 - E6750 - 8800GT 1024 MB - 2 GB 800 MHz - enough HDDs - 750 W Silverstone - CM Storm Sniper Asus P5Q-VM - Q9450 - 4 GB - 400 W Silverstone - Fortress FT01 AllTheMods - MetkuMods - LedCalc

10th Mar 2007, 10:42	#18
meserlian What's a Dremel? Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cyprus Posts: 4	hhmmm lol i am surprised that this didn't happen earlier. lol i can even bet that the guy who did it is from Cyprus, it would be so typical for a villager who knows how to use a computer to do so. i am not even surprised one bit from the Turkish reaction, and i can also bet that youtube isn't the only website they ban.