Church of England 'to sue Sony' over ultra-violent game - bit-tech.net Forums

steveo_mcg · 9th Jun 2007, 11:41

Quote:

The Church of England is calling on Sony to apologise and withdraw one of its top-selling computer games after the company used the interior of an Anglican cathedral for a virtual gun battle.

The Dean and Chapter at Manchester Cathedral say that Sony failed to ask permission to use the nave as a setting for a shoot-out between resistance fighters and their enemies in an alternative 1951. The sequence has caused distress to Manchester clergy who preach regularly against the city’s gun crime problem and promote the cathedral as a centre of peace and reconciliation.

The image of the cathedral is presented in the new Play-Station3 title Resistance: Fall of Man, which has sold more than one million copies. Ted Price, President of Insomniac Games, the developer, said the scenes were designed after an “environment artist” visited Britain.

Linky

To my mind churches are public buildings and as such have little control over what is (fictionally) done to them.

Khensu · 9th Jun 2007, 12:11

I can understand their point of complaint, but I don't think the plaintiffs hold the copyright to the interior of the Church, so....

Nexxo · 9th Jun 2007, 12:13

They are not quite public buildings, actually. And I can see how a church might not want to be associated with a violent FPS particularly when they are trying to campaign against local gun crime.

The plaintiff may not hold copyrights to the building, but the building is representative of the church in question. It is a trademark as much as a building.

And there are other ethical considerations. I remember a FPS game "9/11 Survivor" in which you had to escape from the Twin Towers after they were struck by the infamous 9/11 airliners (complete with the option to jump to your death like the real victims). Most people sort of felt this crossed a line too.

DXR_13KE · 9th Jun 2007, 17:15

now imagine i made a game were you have to carry attacks against buildings and people, like an attack on the parliament or the white house.

but hey i can do anything i want with a public building, even crash a flying cow against a shopping mall near the white house and where, as if a bug, you hit the white house you would get a bonus.

Constructacon · 10th Jun 2007, 07:29

Is it exactly their church or "inspired by"? If exactly copied I can kind of see their point.

However, the plot of the game is an alternate reality where the human race is engaged in a biological war. In war or crisis buildings/places get used for other than their intended purpose and a battlefield is anyplace you find your enemies. If WWIII broke out tomorrow a skirmish of some sort could conceivably happen in that church at some point in the conflict regardless of their feelings about gun control.

Nexxo · 10th Jun 2007, 12:51

It is an exact copy.

Regardless how plot-consistent the choice of game arena is, that does not counter the church' objections. The fact is that it is not WW III; it is a game.

atanum141 · 10th Jun 2007, 13:24

didnt the church murder millions back in their crusades???

Veles · 10th Jun 2007, 15:35

I don't think this specific bishop did though

The nazis attempted the genocide of the Jewish community, but most Germans are alright in my book.

will. · 10th Jun 2007, 16:20

I'm not in any way a religious person but I believe the churchy people do have a right to get uppity about it.

Its not that they "stole" a building like copying a CD, its the fact that you kill loads of people in it and it is an exact replica. I doubt they would have minded if it was just a place you went as a safe haven where no-one attacked you and a friendly old janitor brings you a cup of steaming broth.

Then again, I'm amazed that the church is suing Sony. It just makes the Church of England look even more like a business than they already do.

cpemma · 10th Jun 2007, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by will.

Then again, I'm amazed that the church is suing Sony. It just makes the Church of England look even more like a business than they already do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC

The Church is demanding an apology and the removal of the game - which has sold more than one million copies.

WILD9 · 10th Jun 2007, 19:35

Has anyone else noticed that the word violent seems to have ceased to exist in terms of films and games, everything is super-violent/hyper-violent/ultra-violent I can only imagine this will be replaced with super-turbo-mega-ninja-violent in the near future.

sinizterguy · 10th Jun 2007, 20:24

Im with Sony on this. Church doesnt own virtual renderings of a building in a fantasy game.

It is a publicity stunt with anti-gun crime thrown in. Recently the church has not made the news, and this is just a way to get back into it.

I have the game, I remember the scene/sequence. Did not know that it was a real church or that it was even a realistic rendering, and didnt and still dont give a damn whether it is based on a real location.

Thats my take on it. Havent seen any arguments convincing enough to make me change it.

DXR_13KE · 10th Jun 2007, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinizterguy

Im with Sony on this. Church doesnt own virtual renderings of a building in a fantasy game.

Thats my take on it. Havent seen any arguments convincing enough to make me change it.

i take every public, private and GOV building in the world put them into a fantasy game were almost everything is similar to the real world, and then give you, the player, missions involving mass murder, terrorist attacks, robbery, assassination of public figures in public events, the use of WMD's, business with terrorists and communists and torture.
And considering that all of the people in this fantasy game don't exist in the real world.
i have every right to do something like this, right? even compose a mission were the player goes to your home (here seen as the church) and has a gun fight against aliens.

i don't say stop the publishing of the game, just say sorry with a big wad of cash for "repairs on the church".

sinizterguy · 10th Jun 2007, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DXR_13KE

i take every public, private and GOV building in the world put them into a fantasy game were almost everything is similar to the real world, and then give you, the player, missions involving mass murder, terrorist attacks, robbery, assassination of public figures in public events, the use of WMD's, business with terrorists and communists and torture.
And considering that all of the people in this fantasy game don't exist in the real world.
i have every right to do something like this, right? even compose a mission were the player goes to your home (here seen as the church) and has a gun fight against aliens.

Yes you do. Feel free to make my home the alien headquarters which need to be blown up to save the known universe.

Whether anyone will want to play your game or let you sell it is a different matter.

DXR_13KE · 11th Jun 2007, 02:20

may i add a virtual character that seems and looks like you and is seen being anally probed? and the player needs to help them probe the character to retrieve some kiddy porn microfilms that are in there, blow up the house with everyone in it just for the fun and gore and the screams of the surviving people from the probed guy while they run out of the house burning and dropping scorched body parts and being eaten by big fire ants and vultures.

i will make the game for free and give it to everyone, there are a lot of sick people out there....... and it is free.

no offense here i hope, played to much postal....... and seen to much violence on tv and on RL, blame Jack Thompson

anyway, what i was trying to say was if you were in their shoes and you were a priest and saw a game that depicts violence by shooting aliens in "the house of god" were you "live", i think you would be very very happy with this..... and you would not go all "300" as in "THIS IS HERESY!!!!!!!!!".

zhangmaster12 · 11th Jun 2007, 04:54

i want that game

GiGo · 11th Jun 2007, 08:01

C of E are proberly trying to cover up there whole 2Priests who have abused kids" stories.

There should not be any cause of concern for them to moan about it, unless it is to close to the truth, how many people did they kill in the Crusades?

Religion in my books = full of crap!
Regards
GiGo

sinizterguy · 11th Jun 2007, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DXR_13KE

may i add a virtual character that seems and looks like you and is seen being anally probed? and the player needs to help them probe the character to retrieve some kiddy porn microfilms that are in there, blow up the house with everyone in it just for the fun and gore and the screams of the surviving people from the probed guy while they run out of the house burning and dropping scorched body parts and being eaten by big fire ants and vultures.

i will make the game for free and give it to everyone, there are a lot of sick people out there....... and it is free.

no offense here i hope, played to much postal....... and seen to much violence on tv and on RL, blame Jack Thompson

anyway, what i was trying to say was if you were in their shoes and you were a priest and saw a game that depicts violence by shooting aliens in "the house of god" were you "live", i think you would be very very happy with this..... and you would not go all "300" as in "THIS IS HERESY!!!!!!!!!".

Now you are just going into the realm of being childish and trying to have the last word - because the above situation has nothing to do with the case at hand. There are no priests being tortured, burnt or even pictured there.

But if you would like to think you got the last word in, Ill let you have your little giggle at home.

If I saw a game with a locality like mine and house like mine and I had to shoot aliens in it, I would not go 300 or scream heresy.

Heresy : opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, esp. of a church or religious system.

There are no accepted or orthodox doctrine as far as pictures or images of churches are concerned, or for that matter houses which might look like mine - so screaming heresy wouldnt even make any sense.

Its just a bunch of priestly BS to get back in the press.

DXR_13KE · 11th Jun 2007, 10:27

@GiGo

Crusades, witch hunt.... etc.... another time, another place and other people. It is like saying, hey, you used to raid villages and rape everything in sight because the people that lived before you were barbarians, so now you cant moan about anyone doing the same thing even child molesters.

and religion is a most ideal form of primitive government, were would you be if your ancestors did not know that "you shall not kill" and all the other "laws of God"? maybe we would not be here on a computer, maybe we would still be living in caves and only meet to reproduce and fight for territory.

@sinizterguy

i was not trying to have the last word..... and i was not trying to be childish.... really...... i was trying to be extreme in order to show you the real extent of how faith makes a person think differently, especially with the "house of God" thing, imagine i made a game that retracts that specific church as a cheap prostitute house.. with lots of prostitutes left and right dressed as nuns... i don't think they would be happy.

peace

edit: "There are no accepted or orthodox doctrine as far as pictures or images of churches are concerned, "

so the statues on the outside and the shape mean nothing, you mean that i could make the main church, were the pope lives, look like a warehouse and pink and have no problem? cool

sinizterguy · 11th Jun 2007, 10:45

@ DXR_13KE:

No worries, example has been taken on board.

As for faith, it makes a person think and act completely illogically. I have not seen any other changes in though in any of the "faithful" of any religion. They cant even explain what they believe in or why they believe in it. The why is more important - because if they explain why they believe in something then I can accept it even if it doesnt make complete sense to me.

9th Jun 2007, 12:13	#3
Nexxo ...like a geek! Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 15,111	They are not quite public buildings, actually. And I can see how a church might not want to be associated with a violent FPS particularly when they are trying to campaign against local gun crime. The plaintiff may not hold copyrights to the building, but the building is representative of the church in question. It is a trademark as much as a building. And there are other ethical considerations. I remember a FPS game "9/11 Survivor" in which you had to escape from the Twin Towers after they were struck by the infamous 9/11 airliners (complete with the option to jump to your death like the real victims). Most people sort of felt this crossed a line too. __________________ "You actually hope to achieve your ideals, I just use mine as an excuse to hate everything" --specofdust "There is no Real Life, only Away From Keyboard" --gpw111 "...my wife says I can't have any trolls, cause they argue with the dog and eat the fish" --KayinBlack

9th Jun 2007, 17:15	#4
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,473	now imagine i made a game were you have to carry attacks against buildings and people, like an attack on the parliament or the white house. but hey i can do anything i want with a public building, even crash a flying cow against a shopping mall near the white house and where, as if a bug, you hit the white house you would get a bonus. __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

10th Jun 2007, 07:29	#5
Constructacon Constructing since 1978 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 1,842	Is it exactly their church or "inspired by"? If exactly copied I can kind of see their point. However, the plot of the game is an alternate reality where the human race is engaged in a biological war. In war or crisis buildings/places get used for other than their intended purpose and a battlefield is anyplace you find your enemies. If WWIII broke out tomorrow a skirmish of some sort could conceivably happen in that church at some point in the conflict regardless of their feelings about gun control. __________________ Remember - for every silver lining there is a cloud. "Of course, overclocking doesn't normally involve a tank of acetylene large enough to blow a house off its foundation." - zackbass MAME Over - Custom built arcade cabinet. This season's mod - The New Black Also modded - "Got Milk?"

10th Jun 2007, 12:51	#6
Nexxo ...like a geek! Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 15,111	It is an exact copy. Regardless how plot-consistent the choice of game arena is, that does not counter the church' objections. The fact is that it is not WW III; it is a game. __________________ "You actually hope to achieve your ideals, I just use mine as an excuse to hate everything" --specofdust "There is no Real Life, only Away From Keyboard" --gpw111 "...my wife says I can't have any trolls, cause they argue with the dog and eat the fish" --KayinBlack

10th Jun 2007, 13:24	#7
atanum141 I fapped to your post! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: London Posts: 7,538	didnt the church murder millions back in their crusades??? __________________ Welcome to Thunderdome, B*tch XBL: atanum141

9th Jun 2007, 12:11	#2
Khensu likes to touch your special places Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canterbury, Kent Posts: 474	I can understand their point of complaint, but I don't think the plaintiffs hold the copyright to the interior of the Church, so....

10th Jun 2007, 16:20	#9
will. A motorbike of jealousy! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Yorkshire! Posts: 4,404	I'm not in any way a religious person but I believe the churchy people do have a right to get uppity about it. Its not that they "stole" a building like copying a CD, its the fact that you kill loads of people in it and it is an exact replica. I doubt they would have minded if it was just a place you went as a safe haven where no-one attacked you and a friendly old janitor brings you a cup of steaming broth. Then again, I'm amazed that the church is suing Sony. It just makes the Church of England look even more like a business than they already do. __________________ work \| play \| blog PS3 & 360: willblack Flickr my twitter. Last.FM Check out my Last.FM & iToggle & Nav-o-Matic jQuery plugins.

10th Jun 2007, 19:35	#11
WILD9 Been here aaaaages Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cheltenham, UK Posts: 565	Has anyone else noticed that the word violent seems to have ceased to exist in terms of films and games, everything is super-violent/hyper-violent/ultra-violent I can only imagine this will be replaced with super-turbo-mega-ninja-violent in the near future. __________________ e2180 @ 2700 \| Gigabyte P35C-DS3R \| Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro \| 2GB Crucail Ballistix PC 6400 \| Leadtek 8800 GTS 640 @ 600,1500,1700 \| 320GB Samsung F1 \| Coolermaster 710 \| Samsung 22" 223BW

10th Jun 2007, 20:24	#12
sinizterguy Dark & Sinizter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,462	Im with Sony on this. Church doesnt own virtual renderings of a building in a fantasy game. It is a publicity stunt with anti-gun crime thrown in. Recently the church has not made the news, and this is just a way to get back into it. I have the game, I remember the scene/sequence. Did not know that it was a real church or that it was even a realistic rendering, and didnt and still dont give a damn whether it is based on a real location. Thats my take on it. Havent seen any arguments convincing enough to make me change it. __________________ Nothing here. Go away and dont bother me.

11th Jun 2007, 02:20	#15
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,473	may i add a virtual character that seems and looks like you and is seen being anally probed? and the player needs to help them probe the character to retrieve some kiddy porn microfilms that are in there, blow up the house with everyone in it just for the fun and gore and the screams of the surviving people from the probed guy while they run out of the house burning and dropping scorched body parts and being eaten by big fire ants and vultures. i will make the game for free and give it to everyone, there are a lot of sick people out there....... and it is free. no offense here i hope, played to much postal....... and seen to much violence on tv and on RL, blame Jack Thompson anyway, what i was trying to say was if you were in their shoes and you were a priest and saw a game that depicts violence by shooting aliens in "the house of god" were you "live", i think you would be very very happy with this..... and you would not go all "300" as in "THIS IS HERESY!!!!!!!!!". __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

11th Jun 2007, 04:54	#16
zhangmaster12 Hypermodder Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 870	i want that game __________________ Project Dimension 2400

11th Jun 2007, 08:01	#17
GiGo Call me The Bag Man Join Date: May 2002 Location: Stafford, England, UK Posts: 2,079	C of E are proberly trying to cover up there whole 2Priests who have abused kids" stories. There should not be any cause of concern for them to moan about it, unless it is to close to the truth, how many people did they kill in the Crusades? Religion in my books = full of crap! Regards GiGo __________________ :[M3N-HT Deluxe/HDMI]:[AMD64 Dual Core 6000]:[2gb Corsier PC8000]:[3x6800GT 256mb @ 19" VX912 & 2xVP920 & 15"LCD 13" ELO TouchScreen & 17" CRT]::[nVidia 780a @ 17"CRT & 100" HD Projector]:[3xMaxtor 250gb]:[3xMaxtor 250gb]:[3xNEC 16xDVD-RW]:[16x 5Disc Mulitchanger]: :[2xSeagate 200gb-100mb-NAS 3xHitachi 1TB-1gb-NAS]: :[4xSeagate 500gb-FILESSERVER-Dual Gigabit]:

11th Jun 2007, 10:27	#19
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,473	@GiGo Crusades, witch hunt.... etc.... another time, another place and other people. It is like saying, hey, you used to raid villages and rape everything in sight because the people that lived before you were barbarians, so now you cant moan about anyone doing the same thing even child molesters. and religion is a most ideal form of primitive government, were would you be if your ancestors did not know that "you shall not kill" and all the other "laws of God"? maybe we would not be here on a computer, maybe we would still be living in caves and only meet to reproduce and fight for territory. @sinizterguy i was not trying to have the last word..... and i was not trying to be childish.... really...... i was trying to be extreme in order to show you the real extent of how faith makes a person think differently, especially with the "house of God" thing, imagine i made a game that retracts that specific church as a cheap prostitute house.. with lots of prostitutes left and right dressed as nuns... i don't think they would be happy. peace edit: "There are no accepted or orthodox doctrine as far as pictures or images of churches are concerned, " so the statues on the outside and the shape mean nothing, you mean that i could make the main church, were the pope lives, look like a warehouse and pink and have no problem? cool __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK! Last edited by DXR_13KE; 11th Jun 2007 at 10:47.

11th Jun 2007, 10:45	#20
sinizterguy Dark & Sinizter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 5,462	@ DXR_13KE: No worries, example has been taken on board. As for faith, it makes a person think and act completely illogically. I have not seen any other changes in though in any of the "faithful" of any religion. They cant even explain what they believe in or why they believe in it. The why is more important - because if they explain why they believe in something then I can accept it even if it doesnt make complete sense to me. __________________ Nothing here. Go away and dont bother me.