Mozilla takes offense to Safari - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 19th Jun 2007, 06:55

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/06...se_to_safari/1

The Mozilla Foundation's President has gone on record to say some pretty nasty things about Apple and Steve Jobs after the company's recent announcement on its browser, Safari.

Amon · 19th Jun 2007, 06:57

I'm actually hoping to see Safari through. Apple's simplicity vogue (a la ubiquitous iPod) may win a few hearts next year as browsing trends tend to shift quickly.

Ramble · 19th Jun 2007, 07:08

Unlikely I think. Every piece of Apple osftware I've ever used has been utter crap on Windows, Safari will never get through.

DougEdey · 19th Jun 2007, 07:12

Either Jobs was being very naive or very stupid. You can't just forget browsers, Netscape is still about (all though it's becoming a social bookmarking site now).

I've even moved my Media Player to a Mozilla software based solution (Songbird beta) as it looks like a smoother version of iTunes.

AngelOfRage · 19th Jun 2007, 09:25

I really dislike IE and use mainly Firefox at home and at work, although certain web based applications at work need to use IE, i've found i can use an addon to open IE inside a Firefox tab. Basically as far as i'm concerned Firefox rules the roost when it comes to browsers and most of my friends feel the same way. I can't see me changing to Safari, i've always seen Apple as being style over substance, fashion over function, not something i'd ever buy into.

will. · 19th Jun 2007, 09:30

Safari is pretty, and that's about it... Come to think of it.. On vista it just looks ugly as the aero theme is completely dropped. Without it, it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

I do like that 3D bookmark window though

SNIPERMikeUK · 19th Jun 2007, 09:35

I admit it's faster at loading pages, but the beta does not even minimize in x64 vista, it will not display help stuff on pages when u leave your mouse over an icon (i.e. play.com tell u the price of some products in the top sellers list). Mozilla are miles ahead and internet explorer 7 is a vast improvement over the last.

So there is no need for Apple in this market, for god sake
Apple go and make me an iTunes for x64 vista that installs and runs well, without having to resort to installing through apple update for windows.

David_Fitzy · 19th Jun 2007, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

I've even moved my Media Player to a Mozilla software based solution (sunbird beta) as it looks like a smoother version of iTunes.

Mozilla Sunbird is a calender app or have I missed something

I shall be sticking firmly to firefox. (with IE tabs for those made for IE sites)

DougEdey · 19th Jun 2007, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Fitzy

Mozilla Sunbird is a calender app or have I missed something

I shall be sticking firmly to firefox. (with IE tabs for those made for IE sites)

Oops, typo, meant Songbird

Mother-Goose · 19th Jun 2007, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelOfRage

I really dislike IE and use mainly Firefox at home and at work, although certain web based applications at work need to use IE, i've found i can use an addon to open IE inside a Firefox tab. Basically as far as i'm concerned Firefox rules the roost when it comes to browsers and most of my friends feel the same way. I can't see me changing to Safari, i've always seen Apple as being style over substance, fashion over function, not something i'd ever buy into.

got a link for that plugin? Or a name at least? I could do with it, my post office credit card login doesn't work in FF....or IE7 for some reason.

DougEdey · 19th Jun 2007, 10:05

IEtab

HugoB · 19th Jun 2007, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

nieve(sp)

Naive actually, your way looks like it could be right though :s

Could it be that Steve-O was intentionally not including Firefox's market in the chart because he doesn't see himself as competing with them? I don't be the problem with Steve saying "Look, I.E. have 3x as much market as us, we're going after that"

Jamie · 19th Jun 2007, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

I've even moved my Media Player to a Mozilla software based solution (Songbird beta) as it looks like a smoother version of iTunes.

Songbird looks pretty swish although it didn't quite seem as polished as iTunes did when I tried it. I'm willing to give it another go though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by will.

I do like that 3D bookmark window though

The what now?

DougEdey · 19th Jun 2007, 10:17

There are a few minor bugs (it keeps asking me to add new media and import from itunes whenever it boots), but the inbuilt Wikipedia and googling style capabilities are brilliant, I know it's been done elsewhere, but I like the styles and extensions available for the program.

Darkedge · 19th Jun 2007, 10:46

"Lilly goes on to describe Apple's whole product offering and Steve's vision for the company at large as "out of date" and "corporate-controlled.""

yup Steve just wants to be Bill Gates and doesn't care how he does it - the guys a meglomaniac.
Safari is horrible even on a Mac - give me open source anyday. Firefox rocks.

DXR_13KE · 19th Jun 2007, 11:53

total hubris indeed....

songbird = farting birds.....

TheVoice · 19th Jun 2007, 12:03

I think the problem that Apple will face is that only a certain number of people ever bother switching browsers. Most people use IE because that's what their PC comes with and that's what they're used to. Same applies to Safari - Macs come with Safari, therefore Mac users use Safari. Only a small percentage of either camp will ever decide to use a different browser; most people don't care or are too ignorant to know about alternatives.

Evidently Safari isn't gathering much of a following amongst the users of both Firefox, Opera etc or IE - most people dislike it for various reasons and are happy enough with what they've got. I just don't really see what Safari has to offer the non-IE group that they don't have already.

My main concern is that Apple start packing Safari with iTunes and just happen to have the 'Install Safari and allow it to take over my entire PC' option ticked by default during the installation process. Plenty of people never bother to read those options, so upon updating iTunes they'll suddenly find themselves using the browser that Apple tell them to.

iwog · 19th Jun 2007, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheVoice

...My main concern is that Apple start packing Safari with iTunes and just happen to have the 'Install Safari and allow it to take over my entire PC' option ticked by default during the installation process. Plenty of people never bother to read those options, so upon updating iTunes they'll suddenly find themselves using the browser that Apple tell them to.

So true, and i've never liked the whole itunes - itunes store tie in. I've often wanted to just browse the store to see what they've got but i'll be dammed if i'm going to install a horrible program just to do so. I'll stick with winamp (i know its no the best but i like it) and FF with IE7 for all the M$ sites that have active x or some other rubbish

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelOfRage

i've always seen Apple as being style over substance, fashion over function, not something i'd ever buy into.

Rofl that should be Apple's new marketing slogan, Apple: Style over substance, fashion over function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amon

I'm actually hoping to see Safari through. Apple's simplicity vogue (a la ubiquitous iPod) may win a few hearts next year as browsing trends tend to shift quickly.

Dont get me wrong i think moving people away from IE is a good thing but the way you talk about it you seem to imply you want less market diversity. I dont think thats right, there are a few "special" cases where monoplies and duopolies are right but in this case its not. It would reduce RnD as new features and security are the only things current browsers have fight over. And that fight should be improving the quality of both. If you remove the need to fight you remove the need to improve.

Bluephoenix · 19th Jun 2007, 15:42

if that's ever going to happen (which is already incredibly unlikely) they need to get it to the point where it isn't a door in for crackers, and also actually works in at least some resemblance to the way its supposed to. (see jazzle's pic in the original safari discussion)

boiled_elephant · 19th Jun 2007, 15:54

The masses jumping from IE to Safari would be insubstantial - they're both put out by giant corporations with monopolistic ambitions.

Incidentally,
no. of people at my college who use IE: ~600
no. of people who use Firefox: ~150
no. of people who use Safari: ~3

Seriously, nobody knows what the hell it is. Only the Mac users, and even a few of them that I know resent it, and wouldn't port it to windows.

19th Jun 2007, 06:55	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	Mozilla takes offense to Safari http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/06...se_to_safari/1 The Mozilla Foundation's President has gone on record to say some pretty nasty things about Apple and Steve Jobs after the company's recent announcement on its browser, Safari. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

19th Jun 2007, 06:57	#2
Amon inch-perfect Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: cannoning into the reds, Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,456	I'm actually hoping to see Safari through. Apple's simplicity vogue (a la ubiquitous iPod) may win a few hearts next year as browsing trends tend to shift quickly. __________________ Defunct Socket 939 San Diego 4000+::2GB PC3200::Radeon 9600 SE 128MB::200GB HDD::24" Dell 2407WFP-HC::WinXP x64/x86 dual boot Dell Vostro 1500 laptop::Socket P Merom T7100::2GB PC5400::Go 8600m GT 256MB::660GB HDD::15.4" WXGA+, 24" Dell 2407WFP-HC::WinXP::Fanatec 911 Wheel+Pedals

19th Jun 2007, 07:08	#3
Ramble Ginger Nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Exeter, Devon/Wantage, Oxfordshire Posts: 5,235	Unlikely I think. Every piece of Apple osftware I've ever used has been utter crap on Windows, Safari will never get through. __________________ Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky are beaming down to the planet. Guess who's not coming back.

19th Jun 2007, 07:12	#4
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	Either Jobs was being very naive or very stupid. You can't just forget browsers, Netscape is still about (all though it's becoming a social bookmarking site now). I've even moved my Media Player to a Mozilla software based solution (Songbird beta) as it looks like a smoother version of iTunes. __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter Last edited by DougEdey; 19th Jun 2007 at 10:10. Reason: fixed typos, bloody english language

19th Jun 2007, 09:25	#5
AngelOfRage Supermodder Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheshire, UK Posts: 463	I really dislike IE and use mainly Firefox at home and at work, although certain web based applications at work need to use IE, i've found i can use an addon to open IE inside a Firefox tab. Basically as far as i'm concerned Firefox rules the roost when it comes to browsers and most of my friends feel the same way. I can't see me changing to Safari, i've always seen Apple as being style over substance, fashion over function, not something i'd ever buy into. __________________ Main PC - Intel Q6600 \| 4GB DDR2-6400 \| X800GT 256mb \| SB Audigy 2 EX \| Antec 300 Laptop - Dell XPS M1530 \| Intel T9300 2.5GHz \| 8600m GT \| 3GB DDR2

19th Jun 2007, 09:30	#6
will. A motorbike of jealousy! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Yorkshire! Posts: 4,407	Safari is pretty, and that's about it... Come to think of it.. On vista it just looks ugly as the aero theme is completely dropped. Without it, it just sticks out like a sore thumb. I do like that 3D bookmark window though __________________ work \| play \| blog PS3 & 360: willblack Flickr my twitter. Last.FM Check out my Last.FM & iToggle & Nav-o-Matic jQuery plugins.

19th Jun 2007, 09:35	#7
SNIPERMikeUK Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Notts, UK Posts: 137	Safari Is Crap!!! I admit it's faster at loading pages, but the beta does not even minimize in x64 vista, it will not display help stuff on pages when u leave your mouse over an icon (i.e. play.com tell u the price of some products in the top sellers list). Mozilla are miles ahead and internet explorer 7 is a vast improvement over the last. So there is no need for Apple in this market, for god sake Apple go and make me an iTunes for x64 vista that installs and runs well, without having to resort to installing through apple update for windows. __________________ SNIPERMikeUK

19th Jun 2007, 10:05	#11
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	IEtab __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter

19th Jun 2007, 10:17	#14
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	There are a few minor bugs (it keeps asking me to add new media and import from itunes whenever it boots), but the inbuilt Wikipedia and googling style capabilities are brilliant, I know it's been done elsewhere, but I like the styles and extensions available for the program. __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter

19th Jun 2007, 10:46	#15
Darkedge Supermodder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 334	"Lilly goes on to describe Apple's whole product offering and Steve's vision for the company at large as "out of date" and "corporate-controlled."" yup Steve just wants to be Bill Gates and doesn't care how he does it - the guys a meglomaniac. Safari is horrible even on a Mac - give me open source anyday. Firefox rocks.

19th Jun 2007, 11:53	#16
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,476	total hubris indeed.... songbird = farting birds..... __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

19th Jun 2007, 12:03	#17
TheVoice Multimodder Join Date: May 2007 Location: High Wycombe Posts: 101	I think the problem that Apple will face is that only a certain number of people ever bother switching browsers. Most people use IE because that's what their PC comes with and that's what they're used to. Same applies to Safari - Macs come with Safari, therefore Mac users use Safari. Only a small percentage of either camp will ever decide to use a different browser; most people don't care or are too ignorant to know about alternatives. Evidently Safari isn't gathering much of a following amongst the users of both Firefox, Opera etc or IE - most people dislike it for various reasons and are happy enough with what they've got. I just don't really see what Safari has to offer the non-IE group that they don't have already. My main concern is that Apple start packing Safari with iTunes and just happen to have the 'Install Safari and allow it to take over my entire PC' option ticked by default during the installation process. Plenty of people never bother to read those options, so upon updating iTunes they'll suddenly find themselves using the browser that Apple tell them to.

19th Jun 2007, 15:42	#19
Bluephoenix Spoon? What spoon? Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 936	if that's ever going to happen (which is already incredibly unlikely) they need to get it to the point where it isn't a door in for crackers, and also actually works in at least some resemblance to the way its supposed to. (see jazzle's pic in the original safari discussion)

19th Jun 2007, 15:54	#20
boiled_elephant An insipid Mankz derivative. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lancaster Posts: 2,196	The masses jumping from IE to Safari would be insubstantial - they're both put out by giant corporations with monopolistic ambitions. Incidentally, no. of people at my college who use IE: ~600 no. of people who use Firefox: ~150 no. of people who use Safari: ~3 Seriously, nobody knows what the hell it is. Only the Mac users, and even a few of them that I know resent it, and wouldn't port it to windows.