News Manhunt 2 banned by BBFC

[Tim S]

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/06...nned_by_bbfc/1

The British Board of Film Classification has issued its second outright ban on a video game in a decade. Rockstar's Manhunt 2 will now be illegal to obtain in the UK.

[Gravemind123]

Can they honestly expect to completely ban a game? If people want something they will get it. Bit-Torrent exists and people can get games that way. Maybe if parents would just stop b****ing about video games and pay some damn attention to what their kids do we wouldn't have to ban things. Even in the US I have not found a store in my area that would sell M rated games to minors, and my parents would always at least look at what I was buying if they had to agree to me buying it. The problem is probably parents buying games for their kids without looking at what they are giving them. They then go and blame their kid's exposure to violence on the video game industry instead of taking responsibility that they screwed up by buying their kids the game. Seriously, take some damn responsibility. I'm not advocating sadism, but if people make a game they should be able to sell it to consenting adults who are mature enough to understand that game != real life. Also about video games training people, that is bull, firing a gun in a game and one in real life are two completely different things!

That ends my caffeine induced 2 in the morning ramble on the subject, sorry if it makes no sense.

[DougEdey]

It's not officially banned yet Tim, it's only banned if they don't successfully appeal.

[steveo_mcg]

Originally Posted by Gravemind123

Can they honestly expect to completely ban a game? If people want something they will get it. Bit-Torrent exists and people can get games that way. Maybe if parents would just stop b****ing about video games and pay some damn attention to what their kids do we wouldn't have to ban things. Even in the US I have not found a store in my area that would sell M rated games to minors, and my parents would always at least look at what I was buying if they had to agree to me buying it. The problem is probably parents buying games for their kids without looking at what they are giving them. They then go and blame their kid's exposure to violence on the video game industry instead of taking responsibility that they screwed up by buying their kids the game. Seriously, take some damn responsibility. I'm not advocating sadism, but if people make a game they should be able to sell it to consenting adults who are mature enough to understand that game != real life. Also about video games training people, that is bull, firing a gun in a game and one in real life are two completely different things!

here here...

i've no interest in the game but i'm sick of people passing their responsibility on to others.

[Mankz]

Video games don't cause violence! Bad upbringing cases violence.

The original manhunt was quite a good mix of game genres. There was violence, but also a good deal of stealth required.

[DougEdey]

Originally Posted by Mankz.

Video games don't cause violence! Bad upbringing cases violence.

As discussed in the other thread (Console Gaming) the problem comes when the BBFC can not guarantee that an underage child will not be able to easily obtain the game, parents will just buy or order it not look at the rating and hand it over.

So is that bad upbringing or video games?

[Gravemind123]

That's bad upbringing, if your parents can't be bothered to spend a few minutes looking at what they are giving you, then it's not really fair to blame video games which are fine to exist for mature audiences, for the problems caused. Video games should be able to be whatever the designers want, if it's not appropriate for children then make sure it is labeled as such. If parents still buy it for their kids then its the parents fault, not the game.

[airchie]

Probably a combination of the two tbh.

Can we really prove that someone with a bad upbringing who played nothing but Mario Bros wouldn't be violent?
I reckon they would and would just stomp on heads instead of shooting.

Having said that, I read somewhere about someone comparing this to the Saw movies and wondered why they were allowed and this was banned.
I think the interactive nature of this where you actually are the killer and are doing the actions (albeit virtually) makes this more visceral.

I do hold parents responsible though tbh.
I had a good upbringing even though I started watching 18rated movies at the age of 12 or something.
I'm not a crazed murderer (honest).
Mainly because I knew right from wrong...

[RTT]

Banning video games because they may promote violence is like banning cars because they may be used for ram-raids.

[Gravemind123]

Exactly, I've been playing 17+ rated games for a while now, even though I just turned 17 and my parents know that. They also know that I can tell reality from fantasy and am not going on a killing spree from playing too much GTA or Halo. They also did not let me play those games when I was at a younger age and didn't let me watch movies that were too graphic for my maturity level. When they felt I was mature enough, I was allowed to watch those movies and play those games. That is what all parents really need to do, and what it seems like many fail to do and don't blame themselves, but instead blame video games, movies, TV and books. They then proceed to try to take away those things from people who are mature enough to handle the content. When I'm 18 I want to be able to have access to any movie/game I want, not have it banned because parents might give it to their kids. Then the kids grow up and lack the freedoms they should be entitled to because we have to "protect" the next generation of kids.

[Mr. Oizo]

Originally Posted by RTT

Banning video games because they may promote violence is like banning cars because they may be used for ram-raids.

LOL, yeah. Its kind of the same idea.

I think stores should sell games just like they sell alcoholics: Little alcohol only above 16+ and much alcohol above 18+.
Also, I think that parents should look at what theyre kids are doing on the computer.

[Jamie]

Yet again the UK proves that it is aiming towards a bubble-wrapped society...

People have car crashed -> Lower the speed limit and add a speed camera.
People get murdered -> Ban violet influences.
People have accidents -> Try and prevent it from happening again (after trying to find some blame).

We are headed backwards at the moment. The government want us to stop flying, driving, using electricity, doing anything remotely interesting.

I'm surprised you don't have to sign your life away when you get on a train these days.

[CardJoe]

I think the BBFC has a good track record. Remember, this is the only game they have banned since Carmageddon in 1997. Two games in ten years, and from what I've found out they've had a large panel looking at the game to come to this deciscion. They are clealry banning this game because it goes past the point of good taste which, from what I've seen of it, I'd agree with.

Also, by refusing to rate it they only stop its sale in shops. Fans needn't whine as they will still be able to get hold of it through other means, thoguh if they break the law in doing so then that is their choice.

[DougEdey]

Carmeggedon had it's ban overturned. Because they changed the blood colour.

It's in the Bit article!

[[sinz]]

Yes, bad upbringing is the cause of most of these violent crimes, but sadly it seems that the quality of childrens' upbringing is getting worse and worse. While I don't agree with banning anything outright, I can see how these games can play a part in causing certain violent events to occur. I think the issue isn't so much with the game itself but rather with the player's balance of social interaction and game-play. The type of person who plays a particular game for the majority of their day is more likely to be affected by the interaction they experience in the game when it comes to real life and so they may resort to acting out their in-game experiences, violent or not. Again, this isn't wholly the game's fault, but more-so the fault of the individual or those responsible for that individual for not making sure he or she strikes a safe balance of social interaction and non-game activity. The problem is that the governments have no way of enforcing a healthy balance so they resort to the next best thing, banning the game. If parents can't be responsible enough to raise their children to strike that balance then the unfortunate consequence is the government stepping in to become a parent for the entire nation and the only ones who usually take notice are those who were responsible in the first place. I wish the governments would take a different approach and look at raising the standards for parenting but I can understand the reasons behind the ban, just not the overzealous efforts they put forth to achieve them.

[mmorgue]

Originally Posted by RTT

Banning video games because they may promote violence is like banning cars because they may be used for ram-raids.

Exactly. I completely agree, however i can see the "powers that be" trying to use the arguement that the car in question isn't "implying" that it's nature is to do harm but really to provide a solution to a problem which is a 'netural' action -- i.e., transportation, whereas the video game, while not real and pure fantasy, is suggesting or implying that you "do" violence or that it's enjoyable to watch/imagine/think about the actions in the game.

Again, I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with that notion (that games lead to violent behaviour) but it's the people who want to make our decisions for us that can't understand that. And so long as they have that power, to decide what's best for us, we're stuck.

As for appeal -- did Rockstar appeal or did the BBFC not say they had been given time to appeal and they didn't..?

[Bursar]

If it stays banned, what's the ruling on importing it? Are you trading in illegal goods?

[toric334]

Wasn't interested before, but might get a copy to see what the fuss is all about.

[DougEdey]

It was only rated yesterday, they have 6 weeks from then to appeal.

From kotaku:

News of Manhunt 2's Adult Only rating was like a "punch to the stomach" of the Rockstar team, a company spokesman told Kotaku today.

"This is completely unexpected to the whole team," said the spokesman. "We love the horror genre. We thought we could do something interesting and entertaining with it in the video game medium. When we had this first Manhunt game, there wasn't this reaction. We thought (Manhunt 2) was consistent with a mature rating."

But the game, which follows in the footsteps of mature-rated Manhunt, will likely not show up on many store shelves if the ESRB's preliminary rating of Adults Only sticks.

Take-Two has the option of either protesting the rating to an Appeals Board, which is made up of publishers, retailers and other professionals, or change the Wii and PS2 game's content and resubmit it.

When asked if the game might receive a work over to tone it down, the spokesman said it was too early to tell.

"We have to explore all of the options," he said. "I think it's too early to go into all of that right now." Brian Crecente

[AngelOfRage]

Originally Posted by toric334

Wasn't interested before, but might get a copy to see what the fuss is all about.

Same here, i only played an hour or so of the original and found it dull, but since all the hype around this, i'd be interested in looking for it.