Universal to sell songs without DRM - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 10th Aug 2007, 08:41

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08..._without_drm/1

Universal Music Group will begin to sell its music without DRM through a variety of services - but not iTunes.

DougEdey · 10th Aug 2007, 08:42

So RealNetworks will be the most bloated piece of software on your machine, with loads of really annoying pop-ups when you load up. AKA: Adware.

Walmart will be US only.

And the rest will also be US only. Way to share the love UMG!

bilbothebaggins · 10th Aug 2007, 08:56

Do I get this correctly?
They want to create competition so that prices are allowed to RISE???

bloodcar · 10th Aug 2007, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbothebaggins

Do I get this correctly?
They want to create competition so that prices are allowed to RISE???

Basically, yes. One of the big battles a year or so back was various record companies wanting iTunes to raise the prices per song but Steve Jobs told them that he wouldn't do it.

They're reporting losses in physical disc sales so they're wanting to make that up somewhere else. There's a higher profit margin in digital distribution then in disc sales so naturally that's going to be their big tarket for the time coming.

iwog · 10th Aug 2007, 09:15

But consumers dont want to pay more, they want to pay less than what iTunes is charging.

And this strategy will never work, you can steal away market share by charging a higher price for the same service. The only way they would gain market share from iTunes is by charging a lower price which is the opposite of what they want. Then supposedly once they are the monopoly they can start charging higher prices again and watch music piracy sky rocket again.

bloodcar · 10th Aug 2007, 09:29

These new DRM-free songs will be available at the current price that you can buy music from iTunes for but if they manage to grab a large portion of market share away from iTunes, don't be shocked if prices start increasing. Who knows, maybe Universal will eventually put their DRM-free catalog over on iTunes.

iwog · 10th Aug 2007, 10:06

But its economically unsound. Consumers aren't happy atm with the high prices so what makes Universal think it can make more money by charging more? For most people music is an elastic good which means that when you increase the price you loose money as you loose more customers than is offset by the increased revenue.

The only reason music piracy is so prevalent is because the market is failing to give us what we want so we operate outside the market. If the range of legal DRM free music was as great as the illegal, in qualities and artists, and the price was low enough so that hunting around on torrent sites wasn't economically viable (the time spent hunting costs more than the price paid legally). Then and only then would you see a major reduction in music piracy. Until the music companies offer a better product at a more sensible price it will have no significant impact upon the level of piracy.

They could also have take preventative measures during the fledling days of the internet, just like the film industry should have done a few years ago, but thats for another rant.

Paradigm Shifter · 10th Aug 2007, 10:43

When they start selling digital music in non-DRM Lossless formats (FLAC), then I might start buying music online. Until then? I'll stick to CDs, thanks.

I like having the physical media... and besides, half the stuff I listen to is next to impossible to find on CD - finding it online is impossible.

mikeuk2004 · 10th Aug 2007, 11:47

If I buy music I want to have something physical to show I own it. Also, how does one sell downloads onto somebody else. I mean if you get board of a CD it ends up on ebay or in your local cash generator. What do you do with a download???? delete it and get nothing back??

I dont like the idea paying for downloads becase what happens when your hard drive crashes and you loose it?? Can you re-download them with no charge???

steveo_mcg · 10th Aug 2007, 12:02

Music really needs a steam like service, where all your purchased songs are stored and allow you download them again even if you delete them.

Phil Rhodes · 10th Aug 2007, 13:50

Oh, fer chrissake. It's a zero-sum game, guys. You can't keep your disc sales exactly the same and make more money out of selling online. If this is obvious to me, why isn't it obvious to Universal? You'd have thought they'd be happy just with the online sales reducing their fixed costs.

Phil

iwog · 10th Aug 2007, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes

Oh, fer chrissake. It's a zero-sum game, guys. You can't keep your disc sales exactly the same and make more money out of selling online. If this is obvious to me, why isn't it obvious to Universal? You'd have thought they'd be happy just with the online sales reducing their fixed costs.

Phil

Its not a zero sum game because they are targeting two different sectors of the market. They have cross elasticities but unless they are exactly equal to 1 its not zero sum. Zero sum implies that what ever one looses the other gains, but there could be a large increase in online sales without the same decrease in CD sales. Ok?

Da Dego · 10th Aug 2007, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwog

But its economically unsound. Consumers aren't happy atm with the high prices so what makes Universal think it can make more money by charging more? For most people music is an elastic good which means that when you increase the price you loose money as you loose more customers than is offset by the increased revenue.

The only reason music piracy is so prevalent is because the market is failing to give us what we want so we operate outside the market. If the range of legal DRM free music was as great as the illegal, in qualities and artists, and the price was low enough so that hunting around on torrent sites wasn't economically viable (the time spent hunting costs more than the price paid legally). Then and only then would you see a major reduction in music piracy. Until the music companies offer a better product at a more sensible price it will have no significant impact upon the level of piracy.

They could also have take preventative measures during the fledling days of the internet, just like the film industry should have done a few years ago, but thats for another rant.

Stop looking for reason in the mind of madmen. It doesn't work

When common, proven and sensible economic theory doesn't favour big businesses, they don't go looking to fit their business models to the theory - they write a new theory to fit their business model.

iwog · 10th Aug 2007, 16:01

yeah but as an economic student its my nature. And it pains me when business make decisions that fly in the face of economic reasoning. Yes the theories aren't perfect but they give give a good enough representation of what will happen.

completemadness · 10th Aug 2007, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwog

But consumers dont want to pay more, they want to pay less than what iTunes is charging.

q f t

I dont know about you but i still think the ITunes price is too high, it still practically costs the same as the CD, yet you dont get any of the stuff that should cost money (disc, case, artwork, etc)

Phil Rhodes · 10th Aug 2007, 16:35

Er, yes, thanks, I'm fully aware of what a zero-sum game is, and I maintain my contention that the music business is (approximately) one, but:

> but there could be a large increase in online sales without the same decrease in CD sales. Ok?

No, not OK. What makes you say that; what information is it based on?

Phil

bloodcar · 10th Aug 2007, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes

Er, yes, thanks, I'm fully aware of what a zero-sum game is, and I maintain my contention that the music business is (approximately) one, but:

> but there could be a large increase in online sales without the same decrease in CD sales. Ok?

No, not OK. What makes you say that; what information is it based on?

Phil

There are actually some crazy people out there who will purchase downloadable copies of music they already own on disc. Don't ask me why they do it, but I know a couple of people who do.

Personally, I've not bought into paying for downloadable music. $0.99 per song is too much in my mind when I can go out and buy the cd for roughly the same price. A good chunk of my music is music I have bought the disc of...the rest, well, we all know where that came from.

liratheal · 10th Aug 2007, 19:38

I rarely hope things of this nature, but I hope Universal go out of business.

They want to drive consumers away from iTunes, to create competition (I understand this bit)

But they will probably end up charging more?

Won't that drive more consumers into piracy and/or iTunes?

Bunch of idiots :|

Kipman725 · 10th Aug 2007, 20:23

what I don't get is why they don't sell the music at above CD quality as we almost all have broadband equal to or above 2Mb/s downloading multi GB albums would be appealing. What I would rearly like is a track pakaged as a collection of files in a zip. Each file would be what each mic in the studio recorded and the background sounds songs sometimes have (phone calls, screams etc.) and then I could make my own track which would sound awsome.

Rebourne · 11th Aug 2007, 06:09

I agree with Kipman someone should create an audio disk based on blueray tech or something so we could get a lot higher quality music.

The only problem is that no one seems to care, they want it fast and don't really care about the quality of the audio.... Damn MP3 files...

10th Aug 2007, 08:41	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	Universal to sell songs without DRM http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08..._without_drm/1 Universal Music Group will begin to sell its music without DRM through a variety of services - but not iTunes. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

10th Aug 2007, 08:42	#2
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	So RealNetworks will be the most bloated piece of software on your machine, with loads of really annoying pop-ups when you load up. AKA: Adware. Walmart will be US only. And the rest will also be US only. Way to share the love UMG! __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter

10th Aug 2007, 09:15	#5
iwog Linux cursed Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IoW, UK Posts: 712	But consumers dont want to pay more, they want to pay less than what iTunes is charging. And this strategy will never work, you can steal away market share by charging a higher price for the same service. The only way they would gain market share from iTunes is by charging a lower price which is the opposite of what they want. Then supposedly once they are the monopoly they can start charging higher prices again and watch music piracy sky rocket again. __________________ Welcome to bit-tech, watch out for thread drift Things can only get better

10th Aug 2007, 09:29	#6
bloodcar Mod Master Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mentor, OH Posts: 2,133	These new DRM-free songs will be available at the current price that you can buy music from iTunes for but if they manage to grab a large portion of market share away from iTunes, don't be shocked if prices start increasing. Who knows, maybe Universal will eventually put their DRM-free catalog over on iTunes. __________________ <+DougEdey> you getting PGR4 mitmit? <mitmit> not me, Geoff is probably wanking like a lepper at the thought of it though

10th Aug 2007, 10:06	#7
iwog Linux cursed Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IoW, UK Posts: 712	But its economically unsound. Consumers aren't happy atm with the high prices so what makes Universal think it can make more money by charging more? For most people music is an elastic good which means that when you increase the price you loose money as you loose more customers than is offset by the increased revenue. The only reason music piracy is so prevalent is because the market is failing to give us what we want so we operate outside the market. If the range of legal DRM free music was as great as the illegal, in qualities and artists, and the price was low enough so that hunting around on torrent sites wasn't economically viable (the time spent hunting costs more than the price paid legally). Then and only then would you see a major reduction in music piracy. Until the music companies offer a better product at a more sensible price it will have no significant impact upon the level of piracy. They could also have take preventative measures during the fledling days of the internet, just like the film industry should have done a few years ago, but thats for another rant. __________________ Welcome to bit-tech, watch out for thread drift Things can only get better

10th Aug 2007, 08:56	#3
bilbothebaggins Multimodder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Austria Posts: 113	Do I get this correctly? They want to create competition so that prices are allowed to RISE???

10th Aug 2007, 10:43	#8
Paradigm Shifter Lethargic Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,213	When they start selling digital music in non-DRM Lossless formats (FLAC), then I might start buying music online. Until then? I'll stick to CDs, thanks. I like having the physical media... and besides, half the stuff I listen to is next to impossible to find on CD - finding it online is impossible. __________________ Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.8GHz \| 6GB Corsair 1600MHz \| Gigabyte EX58-UD5 \| XFX 4870X2 2GB \| 4TB \| WUXGA

10th Aug 2007, 11:47	#9
mikeuk2004 What you Looking at Fool! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 3,052	If I buy music I want to have something physical to show I own it. Also, how does one sell downloads onto somebody else. I mean if you get board of a CD it ends up on ebay or in your local cash generator. What do you do with a download???? delete it and get nothing back?? I dont like the idea paying for downloads becase what happens when your hard drive crashes and you loose it?? Can you re-download them with no charge??? __________________ -\|- Xfire - Mikeuk2005 -\|- Xbox Live - Mike UK 2006 -\|- Playstation Network - Mikeuk2004 -\|-

10th Aug 2007, 12:02	#10
steveo_mcg What owl? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,998	Music really needs a steam like service, where all your purchased songs are stored and allow you download them again even if you delete them. __________________ No boom today, boom tomorrow... there's always a boom tomorrow.

10th Aug 2007, 13:50	#11
Phil Rhodes Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 583	Oh, fer chrissake. It's a zero-sum game, guys. You can't keep your disc sales exactly the same and make more money out of selling online. If this is obvious to me, why isn't it obvious to Universal? You'd have thought they'd be happy just with the online sales reducing their fixed costs. Phil

10th Aug 2007, 16:01	#14
iwog Linux cursed Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IoW, UK Posts: 712	yeah but as an economic student its my nature. And it pains me when business make decisions that fly in the face of economic reasoning. Yes the theories aren't perfect but they give give a good enough representation of what will happen. __________________ Welcome to bit-tech, watch out for thread drift Things can only get better

10th Aug 2007, 16:35	#16
Phil Rhodes Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 583	Er, yes, thanks, I'm fully aware of what a zero-sum game is, and I maintain my contention that the music business is (approximately) one, but: > but there could be a large increase in online sales without the same decrease in CD sales. Ok? No, not OK. What makes you say that; what information is it based on? Phil

10th Aug 2007, 19:38	#18
liratheal Just got a great book on tape Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: High Wycombe, UK Posts: 3,652	I rarely hope things of this nature, but I hope Universal go out of business. They want to drive consumers away from iTunes, to create competition (I understand this bit) But they will probably end up charging more? Won't that drive more consumers into piracy and/or iTunes? Bunch of idiots :\| __________________ Gigabyte MA790FX, X4 9950 Black Edition, 8gb Geil Black Dragon, 2x4870 512mb, Antec TruePower Quattro 850w I game, Do you?

10th Aug 2007, 20:23	#19
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	what I don't get is why they don't sell the music at above CD quality as we almost all have broadband equal to or above 2Mb/s downloading multi GB albums would be appealing. What I would rearly like is a track pakaged as a collection of files in a zip. Each file would be what each mic in the studio recorded and the background sounds songs sometimes have (phone calls, screams etc.) and then I could make my own track which would sound awsome. __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

11th Aug 2007, 06:09	#20
Rebourne Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 321	I agree with Kipman someone should create an audio disk based on blueray tech or something so we could get a lot higher quality music. The only problem is that no one seems to care, they want it fast and don't really care about the quality of the audio.... Damn MP3 files...