Gabe Newell says DX10 for Vista was a mistake - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 28th Aug 2007, 11:33

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08...as_a_mistake/1

Gabe Newell, President of Valve Software, has said that Microsoft’s choice to limit DirectX 10 to Windows Vista was “a terrible mistake”.

LeMaltor · 28th Aug 2007, 11:35

Arhh well, wont DX 11 be out soon?

iwog · 28th Aug 2007, 11:45

ooo i'm one of 2.3%, now to get more ram so that i feel like i should be part of the eilte.

And if this DX fails does this mean that it will effectively kill PC gaming or just hold it in DX9 until 11 comes out or a console support 10...

will. · 28th Aug 2007, 11:47

I'm one of those 2.3 percent as well. And my PC is waaay up in the high end!

My bank account is weeping silently in a corner somewhere though...

iwog · 28th Aug 2007, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by will.

I'm one of those 2.3 percent as well. And my PC is waaay up in the high end!

My bank account is weeping silently in a corner somewhere though...

So i'm guessing not many bit-tech people took that survey or the results might be slightly different. And aren't all bank accounts weeping after their owners discover bit-tech and a desire to mod?

Hamish · 28th Aug 2007, 12:05

Quote:

Microsoft’s choice to limit DirectX 10 to Windows Vista was “a terrible mistake”.

In other news: water is wet!

Ramble · 28th Aug 2007, 12:12

Gabe Newell also complained about dual core processors. As much as I love his games, the man is just a whiney arsehole.
Adoption of new DX versions is always a bit slow, especially when the last version was so excellent.

Mother-Goose · 28th Aug 2007, 12:17

Developers should stop bitching about it and start making use of it!

I'm sure it was the same with the new DX9 from 8 when we got XP (it did happen like that didn't it? I cant remember perfectly now).

bloody developers, get on with it! (that goes for the ones I'm working with at the moment as well, you rat *******s, get on with it!!) ahem, </rant>

koola · 28th Aug 2007, 12:24

Well I'm staying on WinXP with my DX9 as Vista/DX10 is just not worth the extra money/upgrade. I hope and pray MS release DX10 or 11 for XP as that will be the only time I will upgrade tbh.

Hamish · 28th Aug 2007, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mother-Gooser

I'm sure it was the same with the new DX9 from 8 when we got XP (it did happen like that didn't it? I cant remember perfectly now).

DX9 wasnt limited to XP stopping Win2k users from using it though.

Veles · 28th Aug 2007, 12:32

But consoles have nothing to do with directX, it's a PC only thing isn't it? There should be no reason why DX10 features can't be used on the 360 and PS3 AFAIK, with the exception that the GPUs aren't designed with DX10 features in mind. But I'm sure I read somewhere it's possible.

samkiller42 · 28th Aug 2007, 12:52

Apparently DX10 is available on XP 64bit, so maybe is rather wrong, ha ha.

Sam

Ramble · 28th Aug 2007, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veles

But consoles have nothing to do with directX, it's a PC only thing isn't it? There should be no reason why DX10 features can't be used on the 360 and PS3 AFAIK, with the exception that the GPUs aren't designed with DX10 features in mind. But I'm sure I read somewhere it's possible.

It is. The reason the Xbox360 is getting so many ports like Bioshock is that it's dx9, it was developed to be like the PC.
The PS3 uses OpenGL (with some added insturctions I think) and the Wii probably uses OpenGL too.

Without an API like DX of OGL console gaming would be pretty dead, there would be no way to develop games cheaply and effectively.

riggs · 28th Aug 2007, 13:06

Just out of interest, is there any news on the dual-core Source update? I'm yet to play HL2:Ep1...wanting to wait until my C2D will be utilised to it's full potential (seems a bit of a waste only using 50% CPU time).

K · 28th Aug 2007, 13:15

I don't think the Wii does use Open GL... But otherwise that's bang on, the 360's GPU is Direct X 9 only.

Veles · 28th Aug 2007, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by riggs

Just out of interest, is there any news on the dual-core Source update? I'm yet to play HL2:Ep1...wanting to wait until my C2D will be utilised to it's full potential (seems a bit of a waste only using 50% CPU time).

It really won't make the game any better, I'd play it now

Tim S · 28th Aug 2007, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by K

I don't think the Wii does use Open GL... But otherwise that's bang on, the 360's GPU is Direct X 9 only.

The 360's GPU has similar capabilities to DX9, but it's not DX9. There are some extra things it can do that DX9 GPUs can't and there are other things that it can - that's why Microsoft provides the XNA developer suite, so that devs can port 360 games to PC with relative ease. What it isn't though is simply plugging the 360 code into a PC and getting it to work.

[USRF]Obiwan · 28th Aug 2007, 15:54

I agree with Gabe that it was a mistake to release dx10 only on vista. If it would have been released on XP also, there would have been more support for it from the gamedevelopers. Why should they invest to create a dx10 game for 2.3% people.

Dont get me wrong i realy love to see some real dx10 bases eyecandy, i have a 88x waiting for it. I first thought that bioshock had some, but appearently there is not any difference. I saw a lot of screenshots comparisons on some forum. (i think it was the 2kgames forum, not sure) That was a mayor downer. Especialy that a dx9 game can look that good.

Tim S · 28th Aug 2007, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan

I agree with Gabe that it was a mistake to release dx10 only on vista. If it would have been released on XP also, there would have been more support for it from the gamedevelopers. Why should they invest to create a dx10 game for 2.3% people.

Dont get me wrong i realy love to see some real dx10 bases eyecandy, i have a 88x waiting for it. I first thought that bioshock had some, but appearently there is not any difference. I saw a lot of screenshots comparisons on some forum. (i think it was the 2kgames forum, not sure) That was a mayor downer. Especialy that a dx9 game can look that good.

We'll have some info on this soon... I've been working like a nutter to get this BioShock PC evaluation done

K · 28th Aug 2007, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim S

The 360's GPU has similar capabilities to DX9, but it's not DX9. There are some extra things it can do that DX9 GPUs can't and there are other things that it can - that's why Microsoft provides the XNA developer suite, so that devs can port 360 games to PC with relative ease. What it isn't though is simply plugging the 360 code into a PC and getting it to work.

Well yeah, I just meant it's not gonna be doing any DirectX 10 stuff basically.

28th Aug 2007, 11:33	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	Gabe Newell says DX10 for Vista was a mistake http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/08...as_a_mistake/1 Gabe Newell, President of Valve Software, has said that Microsoft’s choice to limit DirectX 10 to Windows Vista was “a terrible mistake”. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

28th Aug 2007, 11:35	#2
LeMaltor >^_^< Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: No. Posts: 1,395	Arhh well, wont DX 11 be out soon? __________________ Welcoming the riff-raff since February 2009.

28th Aug 2007, 11:45	#3
iwog Linux cursed Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IoW, UK Posts: 708	ooo i'm one of 2.3%, now to get more ram so that i feel like i should be part of the eilte. And if this DX fails does this mean that it will effectively kill PC gaming or just hold it in DX9 until 11 comes out or a console support 10... __________________ Welcome to bit-tech, watch out for thread drift Things can only get better

28th Aug 2007, 11:47	#4
will. A motorbike of jealousy! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Yorkshire! Posts: 4,403	I'm one of those 2.3 percent as well. And my PC is waaay up in the high end! My bank account is weeping silently in a corner somewhere though... __________________ work \| play \| blog PS3 & 360: willblack Flickr my twitter. Last.FM Check out my Last.FM & iToggle & Nav-o-Matic jQuery plugins.

28th Aug 2007, 12:12	#7
Ramble Ginger Nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Exeter, Devon/Wantage, Oxfordshire Posts: 5,233	Gabe Newell also complained about dual core processors. As much as I love his games, the man is just a whiney arsehole. Adoption of new DX versions is always a bit slow, especially when the last version was so excellent. __________________ Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky are beaming down to the planet. Guess who's not coming back.

28th Aug 2007, 12:17	#8
Mother-Goose Tories ftw! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: England - Surrey Posts: 3,750	Developers should stop bitching about it and start making use of it! I'm sure it was the same with the new DX9 from 8 when we got XP (it did happen like that didn't it? I cant remember perfectly now). bloody developers, get on with it! (that goes for the ones I'm working with at the moment as well, you rat *******s, get on with it!!) ahem, </rant> __________________ Goose Q6600, Striker Extreme, 4GB 6400C4 Dominator DHX, Raptor X, 2x400GB spinpoints, BFG 8800GTX OC, Stacker 830 Evo, HX620, Nova T 500, Freezer 7 Pro

28th Aug 2007, 12:24	#9
koola Eat my... Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,210	Well I'm staying on WinXP with my DX9 as Vista/DX10 is just not worth the extra money/upgrade. I hope and pray MS release DX10 or 11 for XP as that will be the only time I will upgrade tbh. __________________ PSN: koola-uk

28th Aug 2007, 12:52	#12
samkiller42 KEEP IT CLEAN! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Havant, Hampshire, England Posts: 3,182	Apparently DX10 is available on XP 64bit, so maybe is rather wrong, ha ha. Sam __________________ The Rig: i7 920 D0, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12GB DDR3 1600mhz, BFG GTX295, Samsung 64gb SSD, WD 640gb Black, Samsung F2 Eco 1TB, Dell 3007WFP, Windows 7 RC. The Netbook: Samsung NC10 Black, Intel Atom, 2gb DDR2 Xbox Live: samkiller42¦PSN: samkiller42¦Bungie: samkiller42

28th Aug 2007, 13:06	#14
riggs ^_^ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Lincs. Posts: 1,643	Just out of interest, is there any news on the dual-core Source update? I'm yet to play HL2:Ep1...wanting to wait until my C2D will be utilised to it's full potential (seems a bit of a waste only using 50% CPU time). __________________ Hell hath no fury like a hippo with a machine gun PSN ID: buster2006

28th Aug 2007, 13:15	#15
K say whoa Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Warwick Posts: 5,537	I don't think the Wii does use Open GL... But otherwise that's bang on, the 360's GPU is Direct X 9 only. __________________ 15GB 3G iPod - 16GB 3G iPhone 24" iMac - 2.66 GHz - 4GB RAM - 640 GB HDD - 500GB WD MyBook - 40" Samsung M87

28th Aug 2007, 15:54	#18
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	I agree with Gabe that it was a mistake to release dx10 only on vista. If it would have been released on XP also, there would have been more support for it from the gamedevelopers. Why should they invest to create a dx10 game for 2.3% people. Dont get me wrong i realy love to see some real dx10 bases eyecandy, i have a 88x waiting for it. I first thought that bioshock had some, but appearently there is not any difference. I saw a lot of screenshots comparisons on some forum. (i think it was the 2kgames forum, not sure) That was a mayor downer. Especialy that a dx9 game can look that good. __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.