Computers can predict your pwnage - bit-tech.net Forums

CardJoe · 3rd Sep 2007, 10:55

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09..._your_pwnage/1

New research from Hungary has revealed that computers can now predict the actions of human players by using biofeedback technology. Never will you win a game of CS:S again.

DriftCarl · 3rd Sep 2007, 11:55

Sure computers are capable of now predicting your actions 2 seconds before you do it. But how is that more realistic? I am sure the enemy in the field doesnt have 1000's of little sensors secretly hidden on your body for them to detect your heart rate and skin condition. This is taking AI a bit too far. The bots need to act on your actions and develop their own actions for their own protection. Not be able to predict your actions based on data which would be unrealistically obtained.

CardJoe · 3rd Sep 2007, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftCarl

Sure computers are capable of now predicting your actions 2 seconds before you do it. But how is that more realistic? I am sure the enemy in the field doesnt have 1000's of little sensors secretly hidden on your body for them to detect your heart rate and skin condition. This is taking AI a bit too far. The bots need to act on your actions and develop their own actions for their own protection. Not be able to predict your actions based on data which would be unrealistically obtained.

No, instead humans use reason and creativity to imagine what opponents might do minutes or even hours ahead of the actual action, then narrow it down by watching body language etc before the actual attack occurs.

Bauul · 3rd Sep 2007, 12:25

"Them after "utilizing neural networks to analyze the biofeedback signals and input records," " - should be "then after..."

Personally I don't believe this, I rarely know what I am doing two seconds in advance in a game of CS, let alone a computer working it out. This all seems rather unbelieavable to me to be honest.

DougEdey · 3rd Sep 2007, 12:26

You shall never predict me!

***proceeds to ultimate belly slap Joe***

Javerh · 3rd Sep 2007, 12:58

At most this could be used to detect when a player is going to make a dash out of cover. Not what direction.

CardJoe · 3rd Sep 2007, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

You shall never predict me!

***proceeds to ultimate belly slap Joe***

DougEdey · 3rd Sep 2007, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardJoe

I think that was sooooo awesome I should sign it.

(Guess the reference)

wharrad · 3rd Sep 2007, 13:26

Scrubs?

DougEdey · 3rd Sep 2007, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wharrad

Scrubs?

We have a WINNA!

DeX · 3rd Sep 2007, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauul

"Them after "utilizing neural networks to analyze the biofeedback signals and input records," " - should be "then after..."

Personally I don't believe this, I rarely know what I am doing two seconds in advance in a game of CS, let alone a computer working it out. This all seems rather unbelieavable to me to be honest.

I think that's the point. If they are looking at responses gamers make based on heart rate and skin conductance that has a stronger link to their emotions than their thoughts. Your emotions could affect your decision to take cover or to fight. I think the study is most interesting because it gives some sort of insight into what our natural instincts are in a tense situation like a battle.

I think Joe put the wrong spin on this in relating it to AI. It is easy to make AI unbeatable. It isn't easy to make AI believable. Even if games were linked up to your heart rate and skin conductance, it wouldn't be of any benefit to have the AI guess what you were going to do next as it would be totally unrealistic given that in real life, your enemy doesn't know what your emotions are. What it does show however is that most people seem to have similar behaviour in certain situations and games are just a method of putting someone in these kinds of situations in a controlled way.

DXR_13KE · 3rd Sep 2007, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javerh

At most this could be used to detect when a player is going to make a dash out of cover. Not what direction.

or shoot, or when he finds and enemy, or is near his objective, or is low on ammo or health..... and this could be used out there in the battlefield....

wharrad · 3rd Sep 2007, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougEdey

We have a WINNA!

*Alan Partridge Voice* Back of the net! */alan*

knowyourenemy · 3rd Sep 2007, 15:34

If this type of thing were applied to a game, say CS:S, I would bet it would be defeated within a week by anyone who plays that game without taking as much as a break for munchies and piss.

OtakuHawk · 3rd Sep 2007, 16:01

until you figure out how to give the biofeedback network false positives. then the pwning continues.

it's just like a magician. you watch the hands, not the eyes.

Bauul · 3rd Sep 2007, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeX

I think that's the point. If they are looking at responses gamers make based on heart rate and skin conductance that has a stronger link to their emotions than their thoughts. Your emotions could affect your decision to take cover or to fight. I think the study is most interesting because it gives some sort of insight into what our natural instincts are in a tense situation like a battle.

N'ah, I still don't agree. Imagine a CS game (for example), you're running along, on the look out for enemies, then one appears... BANG! Either you live, or they do. Now imagine just how long two seconds is. That's one.... two..... done. How long is two seconds in a game of CS? Entire teams can be wiped out by a single guy in two seconds. It's impossible to predict what's going to happen in two seconds time, conciously or not, because you base your actions ordinarilly on stuff that happens maybe only half to a few tenths of seconds in the past, not two seconds ago. If you react to stuff two seconds late, you'd be dead all the time.

If they said "we can predict stuff that will happen in a tenth of a second" then fine, that makes more sense, but to say two seconds that belies belief, because that requires traveling into the future to obtain information the players themselves have yet to recieve, unconciously or not. Maybe in a test of "at some point in the future, shout "YO!" and I bet we can predict when that is going to happen" they can work, but people don't have the luxery of having all the information they need to make a decision in advance in most games out there, it's often reactionary, but based on a strategy, so we're talking unconcious decisions of a tenth of a second, and concious ones of about 30 seconds or a minute. At no point are any decisions made that happen two seconds in advance.

Bungle · 3rd Sep 2007, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauul

N'ah, I still don't agree. Imagine a CS game (for example), you're running along, on the look out for enemies, then one appears... BANG! Either you live, or they do. Now imagine just how long two seconds is. That's one.... two..... done. How long is two seconds in a game of CS? Entire teams can be wiped out by a single guy in two seconds. It's impossible to predict what's going to happen in two seconds time, conciously or not, because you base your actions ordinarilly on stuff that happens maybe only half to a few tenths of seconds in the past, not two seconds ago. If you react to stuff two seconds late, you'd be dead all the time.

If they said "we can predict stuff that will happen in a tenth of a second" then fine, that makes more sense, but to say two seconds that belies belief, because that requires traveling into the future to obtain information the players themselves have yet to recieve, unconciously or not. Maybe in a test of "at some point in the future, shout "YO!" and I bet we can predict when that is going to happen" they can work, but people don't have the luxery of having all the information they need to make a decision in advance in most games out there, it's often reactionary, but based on a strategy, so we're talking unconcious decisions of a tenth of a second, and concious ones of about 30 seconds or a minute. At no point are any decisions made that happen two seconds in advance.

Predicting 1/10th of a sec = no Research grant
Predicting 2 sec = Research grant

It's all a load of hog wash. There is not fate but what we make for ourselves. (cue terminator music).

P.S I wonder where they stick them probes to tell when your excited

theprodigalrebel · 4th Sep 2007, 13:40

All of your thoughts are belong to us!

Ryu_ookami · 4th Sep 2007, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by OtakuHawk

until you figure out how to give the biofeedback network false positives. then the pwning continues.

you would defeat it the same way you would defeat a polygrapth stand on a tack

the pain causes you heart to beat faster and for your skin to perspire (of couse the more pain the better the response) the sensors would see this and predict something to happen based on these events when all that has really happened is that you stood on a tack on purpose

3rd Sep 2007, 10:55	#1
CardJoe Player Character bit-tech Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 8,009	Computers can predict your pwnage http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09..._your_pwnage/1 New research from Hungary has revealed that computers can now predict the actions of human players by using biofeedback technology. Never will you win a game of CS:S again. __________________ this is joe's non-bit-tech blog

3rd Sep 2007, 12:25	#4
Bauul Sir Bongaminge Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Godalming, near Guildford Posts: 1,553	"Them after "utilizing neural networks to analyze the biofeedback signals and input records," " - should be "then after..." Personally I don't believe this, I rarely know what I am doing two seconds in advance in a game of CS, let alone a computer working it out. This all seems rather unbelieavable to me to be honest. __________________ Pentium 4 CPU 3.4 Ghz \| 1Gb + 2x512Mb Corsair DDR2 667 Mhz Sapphire Radeon HD 4770 512Mb\| WD Raptor 36Gb, Seagate 300Gb \| Asus P5LD2 SE Ibanez RG 470 Japanese Edition \| 1991 Japanese Lo-TRS Tremolo \| V7 S1 Custom V8 HSH Pickups

3rd Sep 2007, 12:26	#5
DougEdey I pwn all your storage Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 13,933	You shall never predict me! *proceeds to ultimate belly slap Joe* __________________ Burnout: Paradise Stats!XBL: DougEdey Bindi PSN ID: DougEdey Twitter

3rd Sep 2007, 12:58	#6
Javerh Superfreak Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 655	At most this could be used to detect when a player is going to make a dash out of cover. Not what direction. __________________ Project: Seawolf "Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them."

3rd Sep 2007, 13:26	#9
wharrad Hypermodder Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burford, Oxfordshire Posts: 866	Scrubs? __________________ Jimmy Carr - "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission"

3rd Sep 2007, 11:55	#2
DriftCarl Multimodder Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	Sure computers are capable of now predicting your actions 2 seconds before you do it. But how is that more realistic? I am sure the enemy in the field doesnt have 1000's of little sensors secretly hidden on your body for them to detect your heart rate and skin condition. This is taking AI a bit too far. The bots need to act on your actions and develop their own actions for their own protection. Not be able to predict your actions based on data which would be unrealistically obtained.

3rd Sep 2007, 15:34	#14
knowyourenemy Professional Winner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: A telephone pole. Posts: 55	If this type of thing were applied to a game, say CS:S, I would bet it would be defeated within a week by anyone who plays that game without taking as much as a break for munchies and piss. __________________ //Sun Tzu?

3rd Sep 2007, 16:01	#15
OtakuHawk Hypermodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 659	until you figure out how to give the biofeedback network false positives. then the pwning continues. it's just like a magician. you watch the hands, not the eyes. __________________ Ultra-Lurker

4th Sep 2007, 13:40	#18
theprodigalrebel What's a Dremel? Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5	All of your thoughts are belong to us!