USB 3.0 to arrive at superspeed in 2008 - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 19th Sep 2007, 07:34

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09...peed_in_2008/1

Pat Gelsinger announces the formation of the USB 3.0 promoters' group. Specification will be finalised in 1H08.

woodshop · 19th Sep 2007, 07:50

OOO optical interconnect!!

/me hugs toslink cables.

Firehed · 19th Sep 2007, 07:51

Optical... something tells me that Monoprice is going to be doing a lot more business.

HourBeforeDawn · 19th Sep 2007, 08:49

huh well I dont see optical thumb drives anytime soon as thats a lot of tech to fit in a small profile but overall this is a great idea. ^__^

The_Pope · 19th Sep 2007, 09:28

More than 10 x 480MBit/s = 4.8GBit/s

Current USB 2.0 devices hitting 30-40MBytes/s but I just can't see USB3.0 stuff hitting 300MBytes/s can you? For one, copying from a USB stick to your hard drive, even a 15,000 rpm drive won't be able to keep up! It would have to be a flash-to-flash transfer to really benefit

[USRF]Obiwan · 19th Sep 2007, 09:41

You got a point there Pope, Flash- to-flash-internal-drive. Maybe its the beginning of the end of harddisks..

wuyanxu · 19th Sep 2007, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pope

More than 10 x 480MBit/s = 4.8GBit/s

Current USB 2.0 devices hitting 30-40MBytes/s but I just can't see USB3.0 stuff hitting 300MBytes/s can you? For one, copying from a USB stick to your hard drive, even a 15,000 rpm drive won't be able to keep up! It would have to be a flash-to-flash transfer to really benefit

there are data intensive tasks on the factory floor that might need such high data rate.

what i want to see is a little higher / or same transfer speed as USB2.0, while having a very, very low latency. so that everything will be really responsive. eg, when copying to USB HDD, it's all nice and fast, but as soon as you have multiple copy instances, it goes to a halt. so large chunks of data while having a low latency is what they should be concentrating one, not pure speed.

DeXtmL · 19th Sep 2007, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pope

More than 10 x 480MBit/s = 4.8GBit/s

Current USB 2.0 devices hitting 30-40MBytes/s

Most of my usb 2.0 flash memory only deliver about 15-25 MB/s. Why your devices get such an awesome speed?
------------
I totally agree that 10x speed is a tough competitor to hard disks. But with such a high speed, it would reqiure a more powerful chip. So how does USB3 get a low energy consumption?

cosmic · 19th Sep 2007, 10:26

This going to be just plain confusing - especially when you require different cables. Should ahve called it something else. Looks like another of those initiatives that are going to fall down on the implementation, would have been better to go for 2 to 4 times existing speeds using the same cables. Not noticed firewire 800 taking off and that's been around for years.

Kipman725 · 19th Sep 2007, 11:34

the reason firewire never took off desite in the real world been faster than usb was the liscensing. Anyone can make/buy/program an IC that interfaces using a usb HID class such as a usb audio decoder and put it in there project and the specs (all severall thousand pages of) are avaiable for free off the net. Wheras with firewire the specs can only be got at via NDA. NDA's have to be signed to get hold of the various interface IC's which can only be ordered in batches of 1000+ and the specs are closely gaurded.

A usb networking protocal like firewire has to me would be the greatest improvment.

DXR_13KE · 19th Sep 2007, 13:29

optical usbs? cool.

has anyone heard about wireless usb?

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pope

More than 10 x 480MBit/s = 4.8GBit/s

Current USB 2.0 devices hitting 30-40MBytes/s but I just can't see USB3.0 stuff hitting 300MBytes/s can you? For one, copying from a USB stick to your hard drive, even a 15,000 rpm drive won't be able to keep up! It would have to be a flash-to-flash transfer to really benefit

how about running applications and files of an external drive? i think this would be very nice, don't you? and with some kind of network interface were you can easily link 2 pcs and share files and other stuff this could easily pwn.

Delphium · 19th Sep 2007, 14:21

USB 3.0

I dont even use up any of the 10 USB 2.0 ports to the limits yet, even with some SATA-II to usb drives.
Optical sound's rather cool, but how does one go about powering there usb device via optical, so I guess means the need for external power, more energy effcient they say?

cosmic · 19th Sep 2007, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kipman725

the reason firewire never took off desite in the real world been faster than usb was the liscensing. Anyone can make/buy/program an IC that interfaces using a usb HID class such as a usb audio decoder and put it in there project and the specs (all severall thousand pages of) are avaiable for free off the net. Wheras with firewire the specs can only be got at via NDA. NDA's have to be signed to get hold of the various interface IC's which can only be ordered in batches of 1000+ and the specs are closely gaurded.
A usb networking protocal like firewire has to me would be the greatest improvment.

I think your right about firewire, they do make it hard for implementors although have to say the large product manufacturer out there using these interfaces look towards selling much much more than 1000 units.

Anakha · 19th Sep 2007, 14:32

For my money, Wireless USB will never really take off 'til you have Wireless Power to go with it. Until then, you're going to be having at least 1 cable trailing across into the device (For power), so why not make it a combined power+data cable (You know, like USB already is).

Anakha · 19th Sep 2007, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphium

USB 3.0

I dont even use up any of the 10 USB 2.0 ports to the limits yet, even with some SATA-II to usb drives.
Optical sound's rather cool, but how does one go about powering there usb device via optical, so I guess means the need for external power, more energy effcient they say?

From the looks of the image above, it looks like the optical is in the same plug as the data. So the power would be carried over the same copper, and the data over the optical (The two spots on the "Tongue" in the USB plug)

PumpAction · 19th Sep 2007, 15:09

Anyone got a clue about how much power can be drawn out of a USB 3.0? Would be cool if it could give couple of amps so there would be no need for external power on external hardrives.

The_Pope · 19th Sep 2007, 17:07

OK true, I might've been a little over zealous with my speeds. But if you agree 15-20MBytes/sec then we're still talking 150-200MBytes/sec under USB3.0

And that does still pwn even the quickest HDDs

PumpAction · 19th Sep 2007, 18:03

USB2 in theory: 480Mbit/sec = 60 Mbytes, the 15-20Mbytes/sec limit is because flash memory is crap at sustained transfer, its not the USB2 interface that's the speedbump here. But hey, with signifigantly faster interface, there might be a market for really fast USB sticks, someone might do something about that

completemadness · 19th Sep 2007, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Pope

It would have to be a flash-to-flash transfer to really benefit

Flash is even slower then a HDD though ...

It would have to be Ram-Ram

and then you would be very limited by the USB bus

Stephen Brooks · 30th Sep 2007, 22:20

In case you're wondering about the point of USB 3.0's transfer rate, I think the most important applications are:

USB monitors
USB monitors
USB monitors

...though you could connect a gigabit ethernet connection through it too if you wanted.

I was kind of hoping they'd increase the power part by "more than 10x" as well, but sadly that doesn't look like it's happened. Mains or 12v rail bypass would be cool - kilowattage

(if a little dangerous if they got the plug design wrong).

19th Sep 2007, 07:34	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	USB 3.0 to arrive at superspeed in 2008 http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09...peed_in_2008/1 Pat Gelsinger announces the formation of the USB 3.0 promoters' group. Specification will be finalised in 1H08. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

19th Sep 2007, 07:51	#3
Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An hour north of Boston Posts: 12,576	Optical... something tells me that Monoprice is going to be doing a lot more business. __________________ hire me @ eric-stern.com - web developer and php ninja pics @ my smugmug :: Twitter @firehed :: blog @ firehed.net 40D\|580EXII\|285HV\|AB800\|70-200f/4LIS\|17-50f/2.8\|150f/2.8Macro\|50f/1.8 MacPro @ 8x2.8GHz, 10GB FBDDR2, 3TB HD :: MBP @ 2x2.2GHz, 4GB DDR2, 320GB HD

19th Sep 2007, 08:49	#4
HourBeforeDawn a.k.a KazeModz Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cali, USA Posts: 1,785	huh well I dont see optical thumb drives anytime soon as thats a lot of tech to fit in a small profile but overall this is a great idea. ^__^ __________________ Current Rig: RubyRED • Lian-Li A05B • (2) Swiftech 220 Radiators • (2) D5 Variable Pumps • (2) Res • and a whole lot of modding • Retired Rig: Project F.E.A.R. • TT Lanbox Lite • Swiftech H2O-120 • Q6600 G0 OC@3.6ghz • 2900XT • 4gb SuperTalent Memory •

19th Sep 2007, 09:41	#6
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	You got a point there Pope, Flash- to-flash-internal-drive. Maybe its the beginning of the end of harddisks.. __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

19th Sep 2007, 11:34	#10
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	the reason firewire never took off desite in the real world been faster than usb was the liscensing. Anyone can make/buy/program an IC that interfaces using a usb HID class such as a usb audio decoder and put it in there project and the specs (all severall thousand pages of) are avaiable for free off the net. Wheras with firewire the specs can only be got at via NDA. NDA's have to be signed to get hold of the various interface IC's which can only be ordered in batches of 1000+ and the specs are closely gaurded. A usb networking protocal like firewire has to me would be the greatest improvment. __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

19th Sep 2007, 07:50	#2
woodshop UnSeenly Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Depths Of Hades Posts: 1,379	OOO optical interconnect!! /me hugs toslink cables.

19th Sep 2007, 09:28	#5
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	More than 10 x 480MBit/s = 4.8GBit/s Current USB 2.0 devices hitting 30-40MBytes/s but I just can't see USB3.0 stuff hitting 300MBytes/s can you? For one, copying from a USB stick to your hard drive, even a 15,000 rpm drive won't be able to keep up! It would have to be a flash-to-flash transfer to really benefit

19th Sep 2007, 10:26	#9
cosmic Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 379	This going to be just plain confusing - especially when you require different cables. Should ahve called it something else. Looks like another of those initiatives that are going to fall down on the implementation, would have been better to go for 2 to 4 times existing speeds using the same cables. Not noticed firewire 800 taking off and that's been around for years.

19th Sep 2007, 14:21	#12
Delphium You there computer man fix my pants Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: on teh interwebz Posts: 1,254	USB 3.0 I dont even use up any of the 10 USB 2.0 ports to the limits yet, even with some SATA-II to usb drives. Optical sound's rather cool, but how does one go about powering there usb device via optical, so I guess means the need for external power, more energy effcient they say? __________________ \| Asus P5N32-E SLI \| Q6600 G0 @3.0ghz Watercooled \| 8GB Corsair Dominator PC8500 @1066mhz 5-5-5-15 2T \| XFX GTX285 \| BFG 8800GTS \| XFX 9600GT \| 1x 128GB Crucial M225 SSD \| 5x 500GB Seagate SATA-II \| BFG 800W SLI PSU \| Creative X-Fi Music \| Logitech Z-5500 5.1ch speakers \| 3x Dell S2209W 22"wide TFT's (5760x1080res) \| 1x Panasonic 42"Plasma \| All working on Win7 Ultimate x64 \|

19th Sep 2007, 14:32	#14
Anakha Supermodder Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Eh! Posts: 395	For my money, Wireless USB will never really take off 'til you have Wireless Power to go with it. Until then, you're going to be having at least 1 cable trailing across into the device (For power), so why not make it a combined power+data cable (You know, like USB already is). __________________ Robert "Anakha" Johnston Going to Canada on Nov 28th! I'm going home!

19th Sep 2007, 15:09	#16
PumpAction What's a Dremel? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 5	Anyone got a clue about how much power can be drawn out of a USB 3.0? Would be cool if it could give couple of amps so there would be no need for external power on external hardrives.

19th Sep 2007, 17:07	#17
The_Pope Geoff Richards Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 2,089	OK true, I might've been a little over zealous with my speeds. But if you agree 15-20MBytes/sec then we're still talking 150-200MBytes/sec under USB3.0 And that does still pwn even the quickest HDDs

19th Sep 2007, 18:03	#18
PumpAction What's a Dremel? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 5	USB2 in theory: 480Mbit/sec = 60 Mbytes, the 15-20Mbytes/sec limit is because flash memory is crap at sustained transfer, its not the USB2 interface that's the speedbump here. But hey, with signifigantly faster interface, there might be a market for really fast USB sticks, someone might do something about that

30th Sep 2007, 22:20	#20
Stephen Brooks Minimodder Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: INTERNET Posts: 32	In case you're wondering about the point of USB 3.0's transfer rate, I think the most important applications are: USB monitors USB monitors USB monitors ...though you could connect a gigabit ethernet connection through it too if you wanted. I was kind of hoping they'd increase the power part by "more than 10x" as well, but sadly that doesn't look like it's happened. Mains or 12v rail bypass would be cool - kilowattage (if a little dangerous if they got the plug design wrong).