Clive Barker still thinks games are art - bit-tech.net Forums

CardJoe · 27th Sep 2007, 13:00

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09...ames_are_art/1

Clive Barker makes the news again this week, continuing to say that games are an artform and that critics like Roger Ebert don't understand the medium.

Fod · 27th Sep 2007, 13:11

to say that games are not art for the sole reason that they force the player to make choices is a fallacy. count the number of interactive installations in the tate modern.

will. · 27th Sep 2007, 13:37

Nearly every component of a game can be considered art in its own right. From the sound track to the textures. I think where people get confused is that they hear the word game and they immediately think about the action of playing the game. Its true, A person playing a game is not art. However the game itself is.

Redbeaver · 27th Sep 2007, 13:57

yup agree to above posts.

anything can be art. personally, i think game is art. the story can be art. the graphic can be art. the music can be art. heck, even the coding can be art if executed beautifully and bug-free. thats art! i know, im a computer engineer :P

game can be art, of course. i can be considererd art, it can definitely be art, and it can be considered not art as well. depends on the person who, well, play it.

my personal opinion of course.

naokaji · 27th Sep 2007, 14:44

Clive Barker is my new hero... he stands up for games... the world needs more Clive Barkers.

will. · 27th Sep 2007, 15:37

The people that really hate other people calling games art are the people that stick forks and dead animals to household objects. They know we are on to them, and they are going down with a fight!

ssj12 · 27th Sep 2007, 16:53

Clive is awesome!

willyolio · 27th Sep 2007, 19:36

games aren't art! art isn't supposed to be interactive in any way. what you're supposed to do with art is put it on the wall, say "i have no idea what the hell this is but i paid $10,000 for it." now that's art.

i think art is also supposed to evoke emotions, such as pretentiousness and elitism. i don't think games are quite there yet, since they only allow you to feel those emotions among a small subset of the population.

Tyinsar · 27th Sep 2007, 21:34

If CGI used to tell a story (as in a movie) is art then that same CGI is also art if it's used to tell an interactive story (game). The same goes for the plot(s) etc.

IMHO, KOTOR was a fantastic piece of art from both a storyline perspective and a visual perspective.

However, I wonder If part of Clive's campaign is the fact that "Art" gets a lot more leeway in what it can portray.

DXR_13KE · 27th Sep 2007, 23:32

considering that it cant be art because you have choices then paintings, music and movies are not art, you can chose to see them or not.

Aankhen · 28th Sep 2007, 08:45

I do think games can be art, but it's not a strong endorsement coming from Clive Barker, who's never produced anything I'd consider decent, let alone art.

CardJoe · 28th Sep 2007, 08:58

Despite the fact he's a prolific painter, writer, screenwriter, photgrapher and game writer? Have you read any of his books? Or played Undying?

sub routine · 28th Sep 2007, 09:46

Art is what you make it. Because someone doesn`t believe it is art or someone believes it is doesn`t change anything.

An over saturated market when most of the products are overpriced, somewhat boring and cash in`s doesn`t mean it can`t be art? It just makes it crap! .................................But then again which medium am I talking about lol.

What would be the point of taking a urinal and putting it in the middle of an art gallery? Roger Ebert is obviously un-educated about what he is talking about and is also ignorant to the fact that he could actually educate himself to the situation. Not very artisan.

Black and White. A game that lets you be a God and control an entire civilisation any way you see fit through an avatar that you can treat how you like? The end results being a direct result of your actions.

Aankhen · 28th Sep 2007, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardJoe

Despite the fact he's a prolific painter, writer, screenwriter, photgrapher and game writer? Have you read any of his books? Or played Undying?

Yessir. I've read a couple of his books and had a go at Undying, but I didn't find anything that interested me, and the focus on gore in Undying completely turned me off.

CardJoe · 28th Sep 2007, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aankhen

Yessir. I've read a couple of his books and had a go at Undying, but I didn't find anything that interested me, and the focus on gore in Undying completely turned me off.

Fair does, each to their own I suppose

Tyinsar · 28th Sep 2007, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aankhen

I do think games can be art, but it's not a strong endorsement coming from Clive Barker, who's never produced anything I'd consider decent, let alone art.

27th Sep 2007, 13:00	#1
CardJoe Player Character bit-tech Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,945	Clive Barker still thinks games are art http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/09...ames_are_art/1 Clive Barker makes the news again this week, continuing to say that games are an artform and that critics like Roger Ebert don't understand the medium. __________________ this is joe's non-bit-tech blog

27th Sep 2007, 13:11	#2
Fod what is the cheesecake? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London Posts: 4,902	to say that games are not art for the sole reason that they force the player to make choices is a fallacy. count the number of interactive installations in the tate modern. __________________ "Sesame Street is brought to you by the letters P, W, N, the number 3, and the letter D." I'm a pretentious git with a camera. ISPs want to spy on you. Join the fight against phorm XBL/PSN/Steam ID: FodT

27th Sep 2007, 13:37	#3
will. A motorbike of jealousy! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Yorkshire! Posts: 4,403	Nearly every component of a game can be considered art in its own right. From the sound track to the textures. I think where people get confused is that they hear the word game and they immediately think about the action of playing the game. Its true, A person playing a game is not art. However the game itself is. __________________ work \| play \| blog PS3 & 360: willblack Flickr my twitter. Last.FM Check out my Last.FM & iToggle & Nav-o-Matic jQuery plugins.

27th Sep 2007, 13:57	#4
Redbeaver Hypermodder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ontario, CANADA Posts: 718	yup agree to above posts. anything can be art. personally, i think game is art. the story can be art. the graphic can be art. the music can be art. heck, even the coding can be art if executed beautifully and bug-free. thats art! i know, im a computer engineer :P game can be art, of course. i can be considererd art, it can definitely be art, and it can be considered not art as well. depends on the person who, well, play it. my personal opinion of course. __________________ Monita DFI NF4 Expert - X2 3800+ 2.925Ghz - 2x1Gb OCZ Gold XTC DDR500 - 2x eVGA 7900GT SLI - 2x80Gb Seagate 7200.9 [RAID-0 4k] - Enermax Liberty 500 - Vista Ultimate x86 - Silverstone Kublai [Modded] Keisha DFI BloodIron P35 - Q6600 3.6Ghz - 4x1Gb OCZ Gold XTC2 DDR2-800 - eVGA 8800GTS 640MB - 2x80Gb Seagate 7200.9 [RAID-0 4k] - OCZ GameXstream 700 - Vista Ultimate x86 - Silverstone TJ-06 [Modded] www.pecelayam.com

27th Sep 2007, 15:37	#6
will. A motorbike of jealousy! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Yorkshire! Posts: 4,403	The people that really hate other people calling games art are the people that stick forks and dead animals to household objects. They know we are on to them, and they are going down with a fight! __________________ work \| play \| blog PS3 & 360: willblack Flickr my twitter. Last.FM Check out my Last.FM & iToggle & Nav-o-Matic jQuery plugins.

27th Sep 2007, 16:53	#7
ssj12 VGChartz PR Manager Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 232	Clive is awesome! __________________ http://thebladeclan.com

27th Sep 2007, 19:36	#8
willyolio Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 136	games aren't art! art isn't supposed to be interactive in any way. what you're supposed to do with art is put it on the wall, say "i have no idea what the hell this is but i paid $10,000 for it." now that's art. i think art is also supposed to evoke emotions, such as pretentiousness and elitism. i don't think games are quite there yet, since they only allow you to feel those emotions among a small subset of the population.

27th Sep 2007, 21:34	#9
Tyinsar 6 screens / 1 card Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: AB.CA Posts: 2,005	If CGI used to tell a story (as in a movie) is art then that same CGI is also art if it's used to tell an interactive story (game). The same goes for the plot(s) etc. IMHO, KOTOR was a fantastic piece of art from both a storyline perspective and a visual perspective. However, I wonder If part of Clive's campaign is the fact that "Art" gets a lot more leeway in what it can portray. __________________ It's not about how life treats you, it's about how you treat life.

27th Sep 2007, 23:32	#10
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,468	considering that it cant be art because you have choices then paintings, music and movies are not art, you can chose to see them or not. __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

28th Sep 2007, 08:45	#11
Aankhen Supermodder Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: India Posts: 406	I do think games can be art, but it's not a strong endorsement coming from Clive Barker, who's never produced anything I'd consider decent, let alone art. __________________ It sure took me a long time to realize I hadn't changed my forum settings since returning from Canadia-land.

28th Sep 2007, 08:58	#12
CardJoe Player Character bit-tech Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,945	Despite the fact he's a prolific painter, writer, screenwriter, photgrapher and game writer? Have you read any of his books? Or played Undying? __________________ this is joe's non-bit-tech blog

28th Sep 2007, 09:46	#13
sub routine Archie Gemel Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 149	Art is what you make it. Because someone doesn`t believe it is art or someone believes it is doesn`t change anything. An over saturated market when most of the products are overpriced, somewhat boring and cash in`s doesn`t mean it can`t be art? It just makes it crap! .................................But then again which medium am I talking about lol. What would be the point of taking a urinal and putting it in the middle of an art gallery? Roger Ebert is obviously un-educated about what he is talking about and is also ignorant to the fact that he could actually educate himself to the situation. Not very artisan. Black and White. A game that lets you be a God and control an entire civilisation any way you see fit through an avatar that you can treat how you like? The end results being a direct result of your actions.