Seagate releases new hybrid drive - bit-tech.net Forums

Da Dego · 9th Oct 2007, 14:08

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/10...hybrid_drive/1

Many of us have been looking forward to the hybrid drive - part NAND flash memory, part platter drive. Seagate has finally delivered its offering, aimed at the laptop segment.

Cupboard · 9th Oct 2007, 14:20

Shame they are not doing the Barracuda 7200.11 in sizes less than 500gb, it would be nice to have one as a boot drive instead of the Raptor i have been dreaming about.

Tulatin · 9th Oct 2007, 14:22

What's wrong with a half TB bootable? They're cheap...

Sadly, the .11's are pretty difficult to find atm - for us Canucks, NCIX has the 750s and 1Ts - but no 500s yet. They have the PSD's too... but all special order.

mclean007 · 9th Oct 2007, 14:25

--Fixed, thanks! - Da Dego

Cupboard · 9th Oct 2007, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulatin

What's wrong with a half TB bootable? They're cheap...

Sadly, the .11's are pretty difficult to find atm - for us Canucks, NCIX has the 750s and 1Ts - but no 500s yet. They have the PSD's too... but all special order.

Seems a bit of a waste, and I like to keep my stuff separate from my OS. If i had a 500gb drive, I would fill it up with rubbish

.

GoodBytes · 9th Oct 2007, 14:42

I heared the end results of this hybird drive disappoint:
http://www.dailytech.com/Seagate+Hyb...rticle9195.htm

Da Dego · 9th Oct 2007, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodBytes

I heared the end results of this hybird drive disappoint:
http://www.dailytech.com/Seagate+Hyb...rticle9195.htm

comes down to what you're looking for, I guess. That's why I was very specific that the specs don't differ from the 5400.3 drives. What DOES differ is the massive battery life improvement.

Remember how we are always talking as consumers about cramming more benefit in the same power envelope? Well, you could use that flash to speed up the drive but keep the battery life constant, or you could recognize you're working on a laptop drive and try to keep performance the same while bringing down power draw. Seagate chose the latter, and personally I think it was a wise decision.

Renoir · 9th Oct 2007, 15:16

The initial reviews I've seen of anything related to the "ready" technologies haven't really impressed me TBH. Brett have you got a link for the battery life savings you mention? Would be interested to know what the "true" bottleneck is to performance with flash based technologies like Readydrive and readyboost. Is it the speed of the flash, the amount of flash, the OS Drivers or something else? I have no doubt that hybrid drives and SSDs will play a key part in the future of storage so will be interesting to see how the market develops.

leexgx · 9th Oct 2007, 20:55

the size of the flash is to small to make much performance or batt life

it at all when the OS is heavy and bloted (it work wunders on XP tho 128mb boot the rest for other programs if it was supported) the cache on the disk needs to be 1gb to start off from and 2gb if you want the hdd to stay not spinning for longer times as thats what haveing flash on the hard drive is for so the hard disk can stop spinning for longer and save power 256Mb or 1gb can not do that
with 2gb of flash on the disk that you will find optons for hard disk power down more offen as well the Flash is faster access times then an laptop hdd and the Flash can have faster data rates then the laptop disks more so when there is random access going on (0.2ms flash / 10-15ms hdd with an Masive impact on file random read performace)

its more an problem with the hard drive Vista ReadyDrive cant work well at all with 256mb of flash its likey trying to run vista with 512mb of ram its to small to be usefull unless vista ReadyDrive uses it for Small files Only like it does for rederyboost (usb sticks)

completemadness · 9th Oct 2007, 21:01

I still don't understand this tech

How is constantly starting/stopping the drive going to help anything, id rather have less battery life then my HDD dieing after a year

devdevil85 · 9th Oct 2007, 21:16

that's just it, due to the solid-state flash holding the most accessible/needed data the HDD is accessed less, which in turn draws less power and less noise

I just wish they bring an SSD out for desktop usage.....faster read/write times for OS's and games if there's enough flash memory available.....I seriously can't wait.....

airchie · 9th Oct 2007, 21:36

How would these work in raid?
My new Toshiba X200 lappy should arrive tomorrow and just for shits n giggles I was planning to put in a couple SSD drives in raid 0.
Only problem with that is HUUUUGE cost (and I'm currently a poor student

).
So if you could use these in raid to combine the cache it would be handy.

Can't see it working though since the raid controller basically makes the two drives appear as one.
Would be interested in knowing for sure though.

Tyinsar · 9th Oct 2007, 23:45

What's the life expectancy of the flash portion (under heavy use)? What happens if / when that part (with limited read / write cycles) dies? The extra level of cache is interesting but how safe is it? Those are the questions that would keep me from buying. Could they use a DRAM module instead?

completemadness · 10th Oct 2007, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by devdevil85

that's just it, due to the solid-state flash holding the most accessible/needed data the HDD is accessed less, which in turn draws less power and less noise

I just wish they bring an SSD out for desktop usage.....faster read/write times for OS's and games if there's enough flash memory available.....I seriously can't wait.....

The flash is only 256mb, its not going to hold that much

And when it gets asked for something not in flash (or when the flash is full of stuff to write) the disc has to be spun up - and that has to mean the disc will be spinning up and down all the time, which must wear it out pretty fast

The_Beast · 10th Oct 2007, 22:46

flash mem is too small to do anything

hitman012 · 10th Oct 2007, 23:15

The Flash memory isn't meant to hold all your data. Why do you think hard drives have cache in the first place?

The Flash holds only frequently accessed data - the core files of the operating system for example, or any other files you might have open. When most people use laptops they tend to do one thing for a reasonable period of time, such as write a Word document or browse the Internet. 256MB of cache is enough to hold any files that are frequently accessed during these activities and eliminate frequent referral back to data on the platters of the hard drive.

Also, sorry to be a cpemma (

), but the article should read "waiting with bated breath" rather than "baited".

Perforated · 11th Oct 2007, 12:56

OK so it's perhaps not enough for Vista, it's perfect for XP, but how would this affect much smaller operating systems? I'm running DSL on an old laptop that sorely needs a new HDD to drag some life out of it! Performance isn't an issue at all, it's only used for dull stuff, but a little more battery life never hurt, and it'd be something worth salvaging if the thing died!

airchie · 14th Oct 2007, 11:52

Do you need drivers to make the drives work properly?
ie, will it work in Linux and XP etc or does it need Vista's new cache-boost type stuff?

Also, can you manually control what goes in there?
You might want to put specific things in there to make it faster for what you want to do rather than what the system thinks you might do.
ie, games etc.

And anyone know the answer to the previous question about RAIDing these?

GoodBytes · 14th Oct 2007, 15:22

You need Vista to take full advantage of it. under XP or other OS it might work, but just as a normal HDD.

9th Oct 2007, 14:08	#1
Da Dego Brett Thomas Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH USA Posts: 3,906	Seagate releases new hybrid drive http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/10...hybrid_drive/1 Many of us have been looking forward to the hybrid drive - part NAND flash memory, part platter drive. Seagate has finally delivered its offering, aimed at the laptop segment. __________________ "Frankly that seems overkill. iluvtrees2 arguing with spec is the intellectual equivalent of a bunny rabbit taking on a pissed-off lion." - Nexxo

9th Oct 2007, 14:20	#2
Cupboard I'm not a modder. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bury St Edmunds/Durham Uni Posts: 1,840	Shame they are not doing the Barracuda 7200.11 in sizes less than 500gb, it would be nice to have one as a boot drive instead of the Raptor i have been dreaming about. __________________ i7 920, 8800GTS 512, 6GB Corsair all in an Intel DX58SO; 3*320GB RAID5; CM Stacker Samsung Q45.

9th Oct 2007, 14:22	#3
Tulatin The Froggy Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 2,941	What's wrong with a half TB bootable? They're cheap... Sadly, the .11's are pretty difficult to find atm - for us Canucks, NCIX has the 750s and 1Ts - but no 500s yet. They have the PSD's too... but all special order. __________________ Desky E8400 @ 4.0 1.42v; P5K-E WiFi; 4x1 Kingmax Mars 1066 @ 1129 CAS 5; 2x [TOO CHEAP TO SPONSOR] 4850 @ 675/1050; Enermax Liberty; WCing in a CM690

9th Oct 2007, 14:25	#4
mclean007 Officious Bystander Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nodnol Posts: 1,595	--Fixed, thanks! - Da Dego __________________ Demand Naked DSL in the UK!

9th Oct 2007, 14:42	#6
GoodBytes mother into a board?! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 3,451	I heared the end results of this hybird drive disappoint: http://www.dailytech.com/Seagate+Hyb...rticle9195.htm __________________ AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ S939 \| 3GB of Corsair/Kingston (mix) RAM @ 400Mhz 3-3-3-8-2T \| ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe \| Geforce 260 GTX \| X-Fi XtreamMusic \| Western Digital 250GB SATA-II 16MB of Buffer \| Corsair HX620W \| Antec SOLO case \| Monitor: 24inch Dell U2410 \| Win 7 64-bit Go for Pro!

9th Oct 2007, 15:16	#8
Renoir Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 190	The initial reviews I've seen of anything related to the "ready" technologies haven't really impressed me TBH. Brett have you got a link for the battery life savings you mention? Would be interested to know what the "true" bottleneck is to performance with flash based technologies like Readydrive and readyboost. Is it the speed of the flash, the amount of flash, the OS Drivers or something else? I have no doubt that hybrid drives and SSDs will play a key part in the future of storage so will be interesting to see how the market develops.

9th Oct 2007, 20:55	#9
leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do ) Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: uk Posts: 568	the size of the flash is to small to make much performance or batt life it at all when the OS is heavy and bloted (it work wunders on XP tho 128mb boot the rest for other programs if it was supported) the cache on the disk needs to be 1gb to start off from and 2gb if you want the hdd to stay not spinning for longer times as thats what haveing flash on the hard drive is for so the hard disk can stop spinning for longer and save power 256Mb or 1gb can not do that with 2gb of flash on the disk that you will find optons for hard disk power down more offen as well the Flash is faster access times then an laptop hdd and the Flash can have faster data rates then the laptop disks more so when there is random access going on (0.2ms flash / 10-15ms hdd with an Masive impact on file random read performace) its more an problem with the hard drive Vista ReadyDrive cant work well at all with 256mb of flash its likey trying to run vista with 512mb of ram its to small to be usefull unless vista ReadyDrive uses it for Small files Only like it does for rederyboost (usb sticks) __________________ Qx6850 (OC 3.3Ghz) <> 120 extreme<> rampage forumla <> 9800GX2 <> 8gb 4x2gb (2x gell / 2x adata)<> SSD powered Corsair S128 / WD Black 1TB <> Crative X-fi FalTy FPS <> TK 1000w Toughpower <win7 x64> Click me for folding stats greenfrog.biz / 35947

9th Oct 2007, 21:01	#10
completemadness Hypermodder Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 887	I still don't understand this tech How is constantly starting/stopping the drive going to help anything, id rather have less battery life then my HDD dieing after a year

9th Oct 2007, 21:16	#11
devdevil85 Hypermodder Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 884	that's just it, due to the solid-state flash holding the most accessible/needed data the HDD is accessed less, which in turn draws less power and less noise I just wish they bring an SSD out for desktop usage.....faster read/write times for OS's and games if there's enough flash memory available.....I seriously can't wait.....

9th Oct 2007, 23:45	#13
Tyinsar 6 screens / 1 card Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: AB.CA Posts: 2,005	What's the life expectancy of the flash portion (under heavy use)? What happens if / when that part (with limited read / write cycles) dies? The extra level of cache is interesting but how safe is it? Those are the questions that would keep me from buying. Could they use a DRAM module instead? __________________ It's not about how life treats you, it's about how you treat life.

10th Oct 2007, 22:46	#15
The_Beast I am The Stig Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,212	flash mem is too small to do anything __________________ Rendering Machine - Gigabyte DS3L P35 - C2Q Q6600 - Antec New Solution Series NSK4480B - Corsair XMS2 2Gb - Sapphire 2600 XT 256mb - Seagate 'Cuda 320 GB - Antec Earthwatt 430 watt - Windows XP Pro -

10th Oct 2007, 23:15	#16
hitman012 What is a Dremel!? Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bristol / London Posts: 4,811	The Flash memory isn't meant to hold all your data. Why do you think hard drives have cache in the first place? The Flash holds only frequently accessed data - the core files of the operating system for example, or any other files you might have open. When most people use laptops they tend to do one thing for a reasonable period of time, such as write a Word document or browse the Internet. 256MB of cache is enough to hold any files that are frequently accessed during these activities and eliminate frequent referral back to data on the platters of the hard drive. Also, sorry to be a cpemma (), but the article should read "waiting with bated breath" rather than "baited". __________________ "Nothing is more practical than a good theory" - Kurt Lewin

11th Oct 2007, 12:56	#17
Perforated Modder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 65	OK so it's perhaps not enough for Vista, it's perfect for XP, but how would this affect much smaller operating systems? I'm running DSL on an old laptop that sorely needs a new HDD to drag some life out of it! Performance isn't an issue at all, it's only used for dull stuff, but a little more battery life never hurt, and it'd be something worth salvaging if the thing died!

14th Oct 2007, 15:22	#19
GoodBytes mother into a board?! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 3,451	You need Vista to take full advantage of it. under XP or other OS it might work, but just as a normal HDD. __________________ AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ S939 \| 3GB of Corsair/Kingston (mix) RAM @ 400Mhz 3-3-3-8-2T \| ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe \| Geforce 260 GTX \| X-Fi XtreamMusic \| Western Digital 250GB SATA-II 16MB of Buffer \| Corsair HX620W \| Antec SOLO case \| Monitor: 24inch Dell U2410 \| Win 7 64-bit Go for Pro!