The Secrets of PC Memory: Part 1 - bit-tech.net Forums

Bindibadgi · 15th Nov 2007, 10:38

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...emory_part_1/1

Ryan Leng and bit-tech investigate memory technology to give you a detailed, but easy to digest read, into one of the most fundamental parts of a PC.

Johnny Bravo · 15th Nov 2007, 11:33

Ryan you should be very proud of what you have written thus far. As all the making s of a great set of articles on computer memory. I Eagerly await your next installment

1e8o · 15th Nov 2007, 11:35

Wow...really interesting. Gonna read it when i get back home. Dont think they like it if i gonna read it at school

LeMaltor · 15th Nov 2007, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1e8o

Wow...really interesting. Gonna read it when i get back home. Dont think they like it if i gonna read it at school

Why, cos you might actually learn something?

ryanjleng · 15th Nov 2007, 14:04

It was a lot of work deconstructing and simplifying engineering concepts to casual read.

More interesting stuff are coming.

Shielder · 15th Nov 2007, 14:33

Just nitpicking, but the definitions of Mega, Giga etc are incorrect.

The english definition of a Gigabit, is one thousand million and a terabit is one billion i.e. a million million. I take it that the author uses US English rather than British English...

Andy

/nitpicking

Good article though.

C-Sniper · 15th Nov 2007, 15:53

Another Great article. Very informational.
Keep them coming!

The_Pope · 15th Nov 2007, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shielder

Just nitpicking, but the definitions of Mega, Giga etc are incorrect.

The english definition of a Gigabit, is one thousand million and a terabit is one billion i.e. a million million. I take it that the author uses US English rather than British English...

You're correct in your definition but isn't that exactly what the green table on Page 1 shows anyway? I'm confused

hitman012 · 15th Nov 2007, 18:15

Good article. Although on page 5, all of the diagrams say "MEMROY CONTROLLER"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shielder

The english definition of a Gigabit, is one thousand million and a terabit is one billion i.e. a million million. I take it that the author uses US English rather than British English...

The US definition of a billion (10⁹) is the SI standard for tera-. Does anyone actually use the British definition any more?

d4rk*mod · 15th Nov 2007, 18:20

Well, I've read all of this.....And, I like it.....You got a good way to explaining thing.....Your analogy to things is also make it really easy to understand.

I am @ a Information System course now, but I really love to learn about the Computer Organizing things....

.

This most recently update I believe, bring me more into this, rather than learning bout the x86, some motorola legacy procs.., and a out-dated memory hierarchy (SSD wasn't listed^^). And even a DDR is just a scratch....

.

Now I understand more about dual channel, quad, what's called miss-cached, and etc...

Thx Ryan^^.

Ramble · 15th Nov 2007, 19:24

Tera uses the short scale and always has. Anyone still using long scale notation is an old decrepit man.
Plus, you have the oddity of flash and ddr memory systems using 2¹⁰ binary system (kibibyte) and other media like CDs and harddrives using the 10³ decimal system (kilobyte).
Interesting stuff, but I'd hope most of the OCers here know this already.

E.E.L. Ambiense · 15th Nov 2007, 19:35

Awesome! Thanks for this. I love high-fiber reading materials

!

completemadness · 15th Nov 2007, 20:49

Quote:

It is a bit like buying a 160GB Hard Disk and after formatting it, only 149GB is available for your data. This is due to a portion of the drive being occupied by the system level information such as Master Boot Record (MBR) and Partition Tables.

Im sorry, what!?!?

Most of that is lost due to the definition of a byte on a HDD vs the operating system
The percentage that is lost to the system level information is a much much much smaller percentage (that percentage varies alot depending what settings you format with though, and what filesystem you use) - also, that is mainly the partition table as the MBR is 512kb ....

ryanjleng · 16th Nov 2007, 05:43

Yes. you are very sharp on that and right about the HDD part.

The original paper was over 250 pages with huge amount of engineering details. We spent months de-constructing and simplifying ideas down for casual readers. I avoided the 1024 vs 1000 argument and explanation.

The above HDD statement was more of an analogy focused on the myth that full MHz was solely used to carry application data. Hence, the word "It is a bit like..."

The objective was to capture a more identifiable situation from perspective of non-initiated computer users, to help explain how all the memory subsystem works.

It always comes down to who do we write for - the engineering community or non-initiated readers. It is a hard balance to find.

We appreciate your thoughts and sharpness on picking that up.

Salute to the geeks!

ryanjleng · 16th Nov 2007, 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shielder

Just nitpicking, but the definitions of Mega, Giga etc are incorrect.

The english definition of a Gigabit, is one thousand million and a terabit is one billion i.e. a million million. I take it that the author uses US English rather than British English...

Andy

/nitpicking

Good article though.

I understand the confusion.... blame it on the long and short scaling....

A decision was made to use what general consumers understood, which is in terms of $$$. We didn't want to dive into it as it is purely academic.

more info here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales

qupada · 16th Nov 2007, 08:04

Since nit-picking is so fun, I'll throw my hat into the ring

Kilo, 10^3, 1000, etc is 'k' not 'K'.

Also with that analogy to cars and roads at the bottom of page 1 you're dangerously close to a "series of tubes" comment. :)

[USRF]Obiwan · 16th Nov 2007, 09:07

Awesome article Ryan. Waiting for part 2

Shielder · 16th Nov 2007, 12:13

Quote:

Anyone still using long scale notation is an old decrepit man

I wouldn't have thought 33 was decrepit!

Having reread the article, I found it really interesting. I'm being lazy, but is the full article anywhere to be found (for free)?

Bindibadgi · 16th Nov 2007, 13:16

He's not finished writing it yet :P

d4rk*mod · 16th Nov 2007, 16:20

Can you perhaps send da full article 2 my e-mail? Pure for education purpose^^. But I suppose I'll keep in touch 1st^^.

15th Nov 2007, 10:38	#1
Bindibadgi Richard Swinburne bit-tech Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Omnipwntent Posts: 28,247	The Secrets of PC Memory: Part 1 http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...emory_part_1/1 Ryan Leng and bit-tech investigate memory technology to give you a detailed, but easy to digest read, into one of the most fundamental parts of a PC. __________________ Made you look, made you stare, made you clicked this in your underwear! Den of Geek!

15th Nov 2007, 11:35	#3
1e8o Supermodder Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 272	Wow...really interesting. Gonna read it when i get back home. Dont think they like it if i gonna read it at school __________________ NEW!!! X2 4200+\| 2 x XFX Geforce 6600 gt in SLI \| Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe \| 4 x hitachi 250 gb sata hdd + Maxtor 160 usb 2.0 total of 1160 GB \| 2 x 1024 MB DDR-400 (2 GB ) \| Tagan U force 580 Watt \| Saving money for an macbook and an Iphone (2nd edition)

15th Nov 2007, 14:33	#6
Shielder Live long & prosper! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northwich, UK Posts: 515	Just nitpicking, but the definitions of Mega, Giga etc are incorrect. The english definition of a Gigabit, is one thousand million and a terabit is one billion i.e. a million million. I take it that the author uses US English rather than British English... Andy /nitpicking Good article though. __________________ New Rig: GA-X38-DS5, Q6600 (running at stock until I get everything installed), 8GB OCZ RAM (not sure on timings), Inno3D 8800 GTS 512, Noctua NH-U12P heat sink, Hiper Type M 580, 4 HDDs, 2 opticals, Saitek Eclipse II keyboard, Sharkoon Rush gaming mouse, Samsung 2220WM monitor, running XP SP2 (32-bit), Vista HP (x64) and Fedora 9 Beta (x86-64).

15th Nov 2007, 18:20	#10
d4rk*mod What's a Dremel? Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4	Well, I've read all of this.....And, I like it.....You got a good way to explaining thing.....Your analogy to things is also make it really easy to understand. I am @ a Information System course now, but I really love to learn about the Computer Organizing things..... This most recently update I believe, bring me more into this, rather than learning bout the x86, some motorola legacy procs.., and a out-dated memory hierarchy (SSD wasn't listed^^). And even a DDR is just a scratch..... Now I understand more about dual channel, quad, what's called miss-cached, and etc... Thx Ryan^^.

15th Nov 2007, 19:24	#11
Ramble Ginger Nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Exeter, Devon/Wantage, Oxfordshire Posts: 5,234	Tera uses the short scale and always has. Anyone still using long scale notation is an old decrepit man. Plus, you have the oddity of flash and ddr memory systems using 2¹⁰ binary system (kibibyte) and other media like CDs and harddrives using the 10³ decimal system (kilobyte). Interesting stuff, but I'd hope most of the OCers here know this already. __________________ Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky are beaming down to the planet. Guess who's not coming back.

15th Nov 2007, 11:33	#2
Johnny Bravo Minimodder Join Date: May 2006 Location: Scottyland Posts: 21	Ryan you should be very proud of what you have written thus far. As all the making s of a great set of articles on computer memory. I Eagerly await your next installment

15th Nov 2007, 14:04	#5
ryanjleng ... Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 323	It was a lot of work deconstructing and simplifying engineering concepts to casual read. More interesting stuff are coming.

15th Nov 2007, 19:35	#12
E.E.L. Ambiense Acrylic Heretic Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Malabar, FL Posts: 2,726	Awesome! Thanks for this. I love high-fiber reading materials ! __________________ Latest Builds: "Movie Sign!" • CheckMate - MotM May '09 ~~Nominee~~ Loser! • BluBawx I • Lumière Noire - MotM Apr. '08 ~~Nominee~~ Loser! • Razzle Dazzle • CMC Field Server • "Building Better Worlds" - MotM Feb. '08 ~~Nominee~~ Loser! • Biohazard • MicroSuperFly

16th Nov 2007, 05:43	#14
ryanjleng ... Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 323	Yes. you are very sharp on that and right about the HDD part. The original paper was over 250 pages with huge amount of engineering details. We spent months de-constructing and simplifying ideas down for casual readers. I avoided the 1024 vs 1000 argument and explanation. The above HDD statement was more of an analogy focused on the myth that full MHz was solely used to carry application data. Hence, the word "It is a bit like..." The objective was to capture a more identifiable situation from perspective of non-initiated computer users, to help explain how all the memory subsystem works. It always comes down to who do we write for - the engineering community or non-initiated readers. It is a hard balance to find. We appreciate your thoughts and sharpness on picking that up. Salute to the geeks!

16th Nov 2007, 08:04	#16
qupada Minimodder Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 20	Since nit-picking is so fun, I'll throw my hat into the ring Kilo, 10^3, 1000, etc is 'k' not 'K'. Also with that analogy to cars and roads at the bottom of page 1 you're dangerously close to a "series of tubes" comment. :)

16th Nov 2007, 09:07	#17
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	Awesome article Ryan. Waiting for part 2 __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

16th Nov 2007, 13:16	#19
Bindibadgi Richard Swinburne bit-tech Staff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Omnipwntent Posts: 28,247	He's not finished writing it yet :P __________________ Made you look, made you stare, made you clicked this in your underwear! Den of Geek!

16th Nov 2007, 16:20	#20
d4rk*mod What's a Dremel? Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4	Can you perhaps send da full article 2 my e-mail? Pure for education purpose^^. But I suppose I'll keep in touch 1st^^.