France leads the way in common sense - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 26th Nov 2007, 09:23

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/11...common_sense/1

The French have led the way in terms of anti-piracy legislation by making the punishment by casual file-sharing consumer fit the crime committed. However, it's at some expense to online privacy.

Flibblebot · 26th Nov 2007, 10:09

It's a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure I'd like my ISP snooping on my traffic.
How's the snooping going to work, anyway? It'll have to be automated, and who's going to make sure that no false positives get reported? Or, as Bindi said in the article, that it is actually the owner of the line who's doing the sharing?

Sounds good in principle, I don't think it'll work in practice.

AcidJiles · 26th Nov 2007, 10:25

Commons sense in what to do with those caught but pushing privacy too far with the method of catching. What would really reduce privacy is proper services providing the tv, movies and music people want at a reasonable price drm-free.

DXR_13KE · 26th Nov 2007, 12:02

finally some logical anti-piracy law....

impar · 26th Nov 2007, 14:40

Greetings!

Since ISPs will be inpecting the traffic, might as well clean all spammers and virus from it.

Also, the law also specifies that DRM ends and all movies must be released in DVD six months after the opening day in theatres.

DXR_13KE · 26th Nov 2007, 14:54

as long as they are cheaper....

C-Sniper · 26th Nov 2007, 16:22

well atleast it keeps the jail population down and our tax money in more appropriate places.

liratheal · 26th Nov 2007, 17:05

The article claims it'd only be persistent downloaders that get smacked in the face with the law, but how does the ISP determine whether or not the user is persistently downloading, with monkeys like the RIAA and assorted other heavy handed groups threatening ISPs rather than the ISPs customer? Okay, that's only really been seen with torrent sites tracking 'illegal' files so far, but how are we to be sure that someone won't threaten to bury an ISP in paperwork for lawsuits if they don't disclose everyone downloading files that're suspicious in nature?

I don't know if anyone'll be able to read that and make heads or tails of it, but hey. I'm open to questions :B

Kipman725 · 26th Nov 2007, 18:10

I wish the RIAA etc would just get the hell off the internets... I rember the good old days before cascading style sheets, frames and pictures. I wish I could convay how much more fun it was

Tyinsar · 26th Nov 2007, 18:18

Common sense coming from France?

...

... Yay France!

The first question for me is what traffic can / will they monitor? There are a few very valid, non-invasive uses for such statistics and a few nefarious uses for the same data. The most important question for me is who all gets to use that data and for what purpose(s) - and who will be denied access?

completemadness · 26th Nov 2007, 19:41

Definetly a step in the right direct, and DRM free products sounds great

And us in the UK should be able to order goods from france, so finally, the UK isnt completly boned

C-Sniper · 26th Nov 2007, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyinsar

Common sense coming from France?

lol thats ironic.
In the way of monitoring:
i guess they [ISPs] would just monitor the amount a person downloads and then start logging what they do.

The_Beast · 26th Nov 2007, 22:10

the french

DXR_13KE · 26th Nov 2007, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by completemadness

And us in the UK should be able to order goods from france, so finally, the UK isnt completly boned

yeah, French dubbed movies..... and of course you also want to consider that lots of stuff are more expensive around Europe than in the UK, there is stuff in the UK that costs 3/4 what it costs here and in the US there is stuff that costs 1/2 the price...... i really hate the euro and what it has done to the buying power of us Portuguese.....

sorry for the rant

/rant

on French i only have the next to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57vRm...eature=related

"we surrender!!!!!!!"

D3s3rt_F0x · 26th Nov 2007, 23:19

People here talk about common sense and yet have missed a massive incrotchment on civil liberties I could imagine, why would I want my ISP snooping through what I do or transfer on the internet? In terms of encrypted traffic whats this law do to say they cant break it and look into it? If anything this makes ISP some of the most powerful instituions in France now imo, I mean just how to they determine whos a file sharer.

Next we might as well say everyone should be fitted with a tracker so if your near a crime scene you can be identified and well what after that? I'm not saying big brother here far from it what im saying is what about your data? your details? do you really want someone who has the control to do what they like with your connection snooping about your personal traffic? Perhaps reading emails? Looking at sites youve visited? People you talk too? Perhaps even looking at encrypted data to see what youve been doing? Then where does it stop exactly?

I'd rather have bigger penalties for file sharing than that anyday.

fathazza · 27th Nov 2007, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by D3s3rt_F0x

massive incrotchment

now thats a phrase that brings with it some horrible imagery!

completemadness · 27th Nov 2007, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by D3s3rt_F0x

People here talk about common sense and yet have missed a massive incrotchment

on civil liberties I could imagine, why would I want my ISP snooping through what I do or transfer on the internet?

don't fool yourself

The government already monitors most traffic in/out of the county, and most ISP's do too - how do you think they catch child pornography?

Aankhen · 27th Nov 2007, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kipman725

I wish the RIAA etc would just get the hell off the internets... I rember the good old days before cascading style sheets, frames and pictures. I wish I could convay how much more fun it was

Uh, what? I appear to be missing the connection between "the RIAA etc" and "cascading style sheets [sic], frames and pictures".

DeX · 27th Nov 2007, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by D3s3rt_F0x

People here talk about common sense and yet have missed a massive incrotchment on civil liberties...

No we haven't. You're naive if you don't think your data is snooped through by people in ISPs. The only protection your email has from unscrupulous eyes is the massive swathes of spam that surround it. You are just hiring a service from your ISP to route your messages to other computers around the world. There's no obligation of privacy for ISPs any more than their would be if you sent messages in the post without an envelope.

And incrotchment

Shadow_101 · 27th Nov 2007, 10:08

Dam my sole purpose of replying was to make a joke about the French and the title of the article, but I can see its already been done to death!

I think this could be a step in the right direction, if a little misguided.

Quote:

that it is actually the owner of the line who's doing the sharing?

Pretty sure the law see’s it as Your Line, Your Responsibility. (e.g. your responsible for who’s on your network )

26th Nov 2007, 09:23	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	France leads the way in common sense http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/11...common_sense/1 The French have led the way in terms of anti-piracy legislation by making the punishment by casual file-sharing consumer fit the crime committed. However, it's at some expense to online privacy. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

26th Nov 2007, 10:09	#2
Flibblebot Free from artificial flavourings Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here, right now Posts: 2,232	It's a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure I'd like my ISP snooping on my traffic. How's the snooping going to work, anyway? It'll have to be automated, and who's going to make sure that no false positives get reported? Or, as Bindi said in the article, that it is actually the owner of the line who's doing the sharing? Sounds good in principle, I don't think it'll work in practice. __________________ My uber-system: 66Mhz 486DX2, 8Mb RAM, 20Mb hard drive, 256 colour VGA adaptor (goes all the way up to 800x600!), keyboard AND serial mouse

26th Nov 2007, 12:02	#4
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,476	finally some logical anti-piracy law.... __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

26th Nov 2007, 14:40	#5
impar 2n-1 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 843	Greetings! Since ISPs will be inpecting the traffic, might as well clean all spammers and virus from it. Also, the law also specifies that DRM ends and all movies must be released in DVD six months after the opening day in theatres. __________________ The recruitment of Militia is illegal. Militia-recruiters will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the applicable laws.

26th Nov 2007, 14:54	#6
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,476	as long as they are cheaper.... __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

26th Nov 2007, 10:25	#3
AcidJiles Multimodder Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 152	Commons sense in what to do with those caught but pushing privacy too far with the method of catching. What would really reduce privacy is proper services providing the tv, movies and music people want at a reasonable price drm-free.

26th Nov 2007, 17:05	#8
liratheal Just got a great book on tape Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: High Wycombe, UK Posts: 3,633	The article claims it'd only be persistent downloaders that get smacked in the face with the law, but how does the ISP determine whether or not the user is persistently downloading, with monkeys like the RIAA and assorted other heavy handed groups threatening ISPs rather than the ISPs customer? Okay, that's only really been seen with torrent sites tracking 'illegal' files so far, but how are we to be sure that someone won't threaten to bury an ISP in paperwork for lawsuits if they don't disclose everyone downloading files that're suspicious in nature? I don't know if anyone'll be able to read that and make heads or tails of it, but hey. I'm open to questions :B __________________ Gigabyte MA790FX, X4 9950 Black Edition, 8gb Geil Black Dragon, 2x4870 512mb, Antec TruePower Quattro 850w I game, Do you?

26th Nov 2007, 18:10	#9
Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,753	I wish the RIAA etc would just get the hell off the internets... I rember the good old days before cascading style sheets, frames and pictures. I wish I could convay how much more fun it was __________________ Sn45g game server mod My Electronics Site Hardware: 3400+ Sempr0n, 1GB RAM, 1.28TB local storage, x1950pro,Razer Viper,M$ comfort curve 2000,L70S + 17", Fujitsu 17" CRT Audio: HD-650's, PE congress amp, Sound Blaster AWE64, Soundblaster 24bit

26th Nov 2007, 18:18	#10
Tyinsar 6 screens / 1 card Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: AB.CA Posts: 2,005	Common sense coming from France? ... ... Yay France! The first question for me is what traffic can / will they monitor? There are a few very valid, non-invasive uses for such statistics and a few nefarious uses for the same data. The most important question for me is who all gets to use that data and for what purpose(s) - and who will be denied access? __________________ It's not about how life treats you, it's about how you treat life.

26th Nov 2007, 19:41	#11
completemadness Hypermodder Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 887	Definetly a step in the right direct, and DRM free products sounds great And us in the UK should be able to order goods from france, so finally, the UK isnt completly boned

26th Nov 2007, 22:10	#13
The_Beast I am The Stig Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,226	the french __________________ Rendering Machine - Gigabyte DS3L P35 - C2Q Q6600 - Antec New Solution Series NSK4480B - Corsair XMS2 2Gb - Sapphire 2600 XT 256mb - Seagate 'Cuda 320 GB - Antec Earthwatt 430 watt - Windows XP Pro -

26th Nov 2007, 23:19	#15
D3s3rt_F0x Hypermodder Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Near Middlesbrough Posts: 681	People here talk about common sense and yet have missed a massive incrotchment on civil liberties I could imagine, why would I want my ISP snooping through what I do or transfer on the internet? In terms of encrypted traffic whats this law do to say they cant break it and look into it? If anything this makes ISP some of the most powerful instituions in France now imo, I mean just how to they determine whos a file sharer. Next we might as well say everyone should be fitted with a tracker so if your near a crime scene you can be identified and well what after that? I'm not saying big brother here far from it what im saying is what about your data? your details? do you really want someone who has the control to do what they like with your connection snooping about your personal traffic? Perhaps reading emails? Looking at sites youve visited? People you talk too? Perhaps even looking at encrypted data to see what youve been doing? Then where does it stop exactly? I'd rather have bigger penalties for file sharing than that anyday.