phorm: ISPs want to spy on us all for money - bit-tech.net Forums

Fod · 18th Mar 2008, 11:55

*poke* bit tech... no coverage yet? for shame!

So i'm guessing you've all heard about phorm and ISPs plans to implement it. go google if not, it's an interesting trail of news.
this is reprehensible, utterly and completely. what's most disconcerting about the company who is currently branded as phorm is that they were previously 121media and many other names; they used to make spyware that was uninstallable by a usual user; and are constantly rebranding to stay ahead of the wave of bad press. as far as i am concerned, selling my browsing habits to a third party is completely unacceptable to start with, let alone a third party (hosted in russia!) with such a bad record.

i urge you all to investigate this fully, and if you feel as strongly as i do; take action. call your ISP, voice your concern, write to their head office, write to the information commissioner. The backlash is large and we should be able to nip this in the bud now.

kill phorm: kill it dead.

steveo_mcg · 18th Mar 2008, 11:58

I only read about it on the bbc ws yesterday, i'm surprised its been kept quiet for so long. This is so very annoying from a cable customer point of view since VM have the monopoly its not possible to switch to another cable provider, I don't know what adsl is like in my area but i don't want to change.

LAGMonkey · 18th Mar 2008, 16:35

Please do not take what you read from the BBC entirely seriously.
Take a look over at The Register's Phorm coverage.

Fod is correct. we ALL need to kill this thing stone dead before it starts to get out of control. The worst thing that can happen is that it becomes acceptable and then every ISP-and-his-dog will be doing it.

Its MY DATA damm-it!!

steveo_mcg · 18th Mar 2008, 16:39

Out of interest whats wrong with the bbc coverage? It seemed to be fairly balanced el reg isn't exactly known for its impartiality.

UncertainGod · 18th Mar 2008, 17:03

BBC tech coverage = two months late and they got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

IanW · 18th Mar 2008, 17:43

Latest on this from Reg seems to be that both Tim Berners-Lee & Govt think-tank FIPR have declared against this.

linky

FuzzyOne · 18th Mar 2008, 17:48

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

naokaji · 18th Mar 2008, 17:55

want to get scared? read this blog about phorm... NSFW (no pr0n, but you might get urges to scream) link

Cthippo · 18th Mar 2008, 19:07

Screw that! I really hope you guys kill it before it gets over here!

DXR_13KE · 18th Mar 2008, 20:01

squash it there!!! i don't want that crap here!

yodasarmpit · 18th Mar 2008, 21:01

I don't get this, they are working with ISP's so what control would they have on what ads I see on lets say bit-tech.net ?
In the interview on el-reg they denied any form of injected ads, so I'm left confused at how they can affect anything other than by selling my surfing habits to 3rd parties yet they claim not to store any information.

VictorianBloke · 18th Mar 2008, 21:06

^^ me neither. surely running ad block and the like any potential advertising benefits are null and void anyway, the only use I could see for anything like this is to pass on or monitor info, or am I missing something?

UncertainGod · 18th Mar 2008, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorianBloke

^^ me neither. surely running ad block and the like any potential advertising benefits are null and void anyway, the only use I could see for anything like this is to pass on or monitor info, or am I missing something?

Yes Adblock will stop you from seeing the ads, but the phorm servers will still be profiling all the data from your connection not to mention the problems people have been having which later turned out to be because BT were conducting secret trials last summer on this system.

At the end of the day the phorm are selling something they and the ISP have no legal right to, your data.

Ramble · 18th Mar 2008, 21:17

I actually don't care that much (and I'm a VM customer), if it makes the service better (needed) or cheaper then all the better, I block all ads apart from BT ones anyway, and if I so so concerned with web activity (which isn't difficult to get hold of anyway) I'd be using Tor.

yodasarmpit · 18th Mar 2008, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by yodasarmpit

I don't get this, they are working with ISP's so what control would they have on what ads I see on lets say bit-tech.net ?
In the interview on el-reg they denied any form of injected ads, so I'm left confused at how they can affect anything other than by selling my surfing habits to 3rd parties yet they claim not to store any information.

Okay, to answer my own question of how they will deliver the ads.

Quote:

The data about what websites you tend to visit is then categorised to generate a profile. When you then visit a page whose adverts are sourced from the Open internet Exchange (www.oix.net) - set up by Phorm - your browser will see adverts targeted to your profile.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ternet.privacy

What would concern me more is adding another routing layer, with the potential to impact on my net performance.
However it is looking more and more likely that the ISP's involved will make it an opt in scheme rather than opt out.

outlawaol · 19th Mar 2008, 07:23

Before you know it, you'll have ad's as your desktop! And on your desktop icons, and in your milk!

In all seriousness.... They can all burn in a hot place that isn't pleasant to your skin in the noon hour.

"when I was young, your ad's where everywhere. Now you have to have semi-permanent tattos"

I could go on...

:\

Ryu_ookami · 19th Mar 2008, 07:52

surely this breaks the data protection act in someway ?

LAGMonkey · 19th Mar 2008, 07:56

google linux....google desktop....google mobile

yodasarmpit · 19th Mar 2008, 08:28

At least Google provide a service supported by their ads.

Fod · 19th Mar 2008, 08:54

it's not the ads that are the problem: its the fact that ALL your web traffic is routed through a third-party server, with a ridiculously simple 'anonymous' cookie tied to them. Your browsing, email, posts you make here, are all intercepted and processed. Opting out of the service will only stop phorm from processing the data, but as it stands now will not stop your ISP from routing your traffic to them and logging this data.

the system as it stands is an opt-out system, and, depends upon the maintenance of a cookie for each and every browser you run. This is completely unworkable: what about mobile devices? how am i supposed to get my cookie on there? embedded browsers in set-top boxes? What if i have my browser set to clear cookies regularly?

this is a security and privacy nightmare, don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise.

18th Mar 2008, 11:55	#1
Fod what is the cheesecake? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London Posts: 4,909	phorm: ISPs want to spy on us all for money poke bit tech... no coverage yet? for shame! So i'm guessing you've all heard about phorm and ISPs plans to implement it. go google if not, it's an interesting trail of news. this is reprehensible, utterly and completely. what's most disconcerting about the company who is currently branded as phorm is that they were previously 121media and many other names; they used to make spyware that was uninstallable by a usual user; and are constantly rebranding to stay ahead of the wave of bad press. as far as i am concerned, selling my browsing habits to a third party is completely unacceptable to start with, let alone a third party (hosted in russia!) with such a bad record. i urge you all to investigate this fully, and if you feel as strongly as i do; take action. call your ISP, voice your concern, write to their head office, write to the information commissioner. The backlash is large and we should be able to nip this in the bud now. kill phorm: kill it dead. __________________ "Sesame Street is brought to you by the letters P, W, N, the number 3, and the letter D." I'm a pretentious git with a camera. ISPs want to spy on you. Join the fight against phorm XBL/PSN/Steam ID: FodT Last edited by Fod; 18th Mar 2008 at 12:17.

18th Mar 2008, 11:58	#2
steveo_mcg What owl? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,998	I only read about it on the bbc ws yesterday, i'm surprised its been kept quiet for so long. This is so very annoying from a cable customer point of view since VM have the monopoly its not possible to switch to another cable provider, I don't know what adsl is like in my area but i don't want to change. __________________ No boom today, boom tomorrow... there's always a boom tomorrow.

18th Mar 2008, 16:35	#3
LAGMonkey Group 7 error Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada/Saudi Posts: 1,451	Please do not take what you read from the BBC entirely seriously. Take a look over at The Register's Phorm coverage. Fod is correct. we ALL need to kill this thing stone dead before it starts to get out of control. The worst thing that can happen is that it becomes acceptable and then every ISP-and-his-dog will be doing it. Its MY DATA damm-it!! __________________ ---------------LAG out!--------------- http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com 100% Brainless]

18th Mar 2008, 16:39	#4
steveo_mcg What owl? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,998	Out of interest whats wrong with the bbc coverage? It seemed to be fairly balanced el reg isn't exactly known for its impartiality. __________________ No boom today, boom tomorrow... there's always a boom tomorrow.

18th Mar 2008, 17:03	#5
UncertainGod Still Alive Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Southampton Posts: 1,148	BBC tech coverage = two months late and they got hold of the wrong end of the stick. __________________ Twitter Tumblr Blog Last.fm "What role do you want to play, I'm just a click away night or day"

18th Mar 2008, 17:43	#6
IanW I am a Dremel Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: N.Wales Posts: 1,607	Latest on this from Reg seems to be that both Tim Berners-Lee & Govt think-tank FIPR have declared against this. linky __________________ Q6600@3GHz / AC Freezer 7 Pro / Gigabyte EP35-DS3R / 8GB OCZ Platinum PC6400 / EVGA GTX260 SSC / LG DVDR / 9TB HDD / OCZ Modstream 780W / CoolerMaster 590 case / Dell E248WFP / Saitek Eclipse II / Logitech G9 / Ubuntu 9.10-64

18th Mar 2008, 17:48	#7
FuzzyOne Cola Cube'aaays Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ipswich Posts: 1,400	http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/ __________________ Twitter \| YouTube \| Flikr \| DZone \| UserStyles

18th Mar 2008, 19:07	#9
Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 4,475	Screw that! I really hope you guys kill it before it gets over here! __________________ Notice: If we see you flaming we will assume you are on fire and take appropriate measures - The Bit-Tech Fire Brigade.

18th Mar 2008, 20:01	#10
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,485	squash it there!!! i don't want that crap here! __________________ RENEGADE X CONTEST! <---- CLICK if you want to win a free Command & Conquer 4 beta key!

18th Mar 2008, 21:01	#11
yodasarmpit The other Brett. Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Lothian , Scotland Posts: 9,667	I don't get this, they are working with ISP's so what control would they have on what ads I see on lets say bit-tech.net ? In the interview on el-reg they denied any form of injected ads, so I'm left confused at how they can affect anything other than by selling my surfing habits to 3rd parties yet they claim not to store any information. __________________ The Rt. Hon. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson - "Ping Pong is coming home" www.yodasarmpit.com clickr my flickr

18th Mar 2008, 21:06	#12
VictorianBloke Multimodder Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 203	^^ me neither. surely running ad block and the like any potential advertising benefits are null and void anyway, the only use I could see for anything like this is to pass on or monitor info, or am I missing something?

18th Mar 2008, 21:17	#14
Ramble Ginger Nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Exeter, Devon/Wantage, Oxfordshire Posts: 5,235	I actually don't care that much (and I'm a VM customer), if it makes the service better (needed) or cheaper then all the better, I block all ads apart from BT ones anyway, and if I so so concerned with web activity (which isn't difficult to get hold of anyway) I'd be using Tor. __________________ Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky are beaming down to the planet. Guess who's not coming back.

19th Mar 2008, 07:23	#16
outlawaol ▲Operational Hazard Sticker▲ Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Greenbay, WI Posts: 938	Before you know it, you'll have ad's as your desktop! And on your desktop icons, and in your milk! In all seriousness.... They can all burn in a hot place that isn't pleasant to your skin in the noon hour. "when I was young, your ad's where everywhere. Now you have to have semi-permanent tattos" I could go on... :\ __________________ 40D\| 350D \| 24-105 f/4L \| 24-70 f/2.8 Sigma \| 50mm f/1.8 \| 75-300 f/4-5.6 Sigma \| 420ex Speedlight 365 Daily Photograph \| Smugmug

19th Mar 2008, 07:52	#17
Ryu_ookami Mod Master Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ipswich Posts: 2,297	surely this breaks the data protection act in someway ? __________________ Never argue with a fool. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience All edits done by the Hellhound Grammar Nazi that is my evil GF.

19th Mar 2008, 07:56	#18
LAGMonkey Group 7 error Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada/Saudi Posts: 1,451	google linux....google desktop....google mobile __________________ ---------------LAG out!--------------- http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com 100% Brainless]

19th Mar 2008, 08:28	#19
yodasarmpit The other Brett. Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Lothian , Scotland Posts: 9,667	At least Google provide a service supported by their ads. __________________ The Rt. Hon. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson - "Ping Pong is coming home" www.yodasarmpit.com clickr my flickr

19th Mar 2008, 08:54	#20
Fod what is the cheesecake? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London Posts: 4,909	it's not the ads that are the problem: its the fact that ALL your web traffic is routed through a third-party server, with a ridiculously simple 'anonymous' cookie tied to them. Your browsing, email, posts you make here, are all intercepted and processed. Opting out of the service will only stop phorm from processing the data, but as it stands now will not stop your ISP from routing your traffic to them and logging this data. the system as it stands is an opt-out system, and, depends upon the maintenance of a cookie for each and every browser you run. This is completely unworkable: what about mobile devices? how am i supposed to get my cookie on there? embedded browsers in set-top boxes? What if i have my browser set to clear cookies regularly? this is a security and privacy nightmare, don't let anybody fool you into thinking otherwise. __________________ "Sesame Street is brought to you by the letters P, W, N, the number 3, and the letter D." I'm a pretentious git with a camera. ISPs want to spy on you. Join the fight against phorm XBL/PSN/Steam ID: FodT