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Old 11th Nov 2014, 15:01   #1
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New(ish) car advice

At the moment I drive a 2004 1.8TDCi Ford Focus Edge hatchback but am thinking of something a bit newer - not least as I have spent as much as it's worth on it in the last year repairing stuff that keeps going wrong - and I was hoping for some advice from our lovely members.

I would be after something of a similar size (5 door hatchback - focus sized) but more like 1-3 years old and average / less than average mileage. Diesel is the way to go for me and my driving and manual gearbox. Maximum budget is around 13k but I wouldn't want to spend all of that unless it was definitely worth it.

At the moment I have a sort of short list of:
  • Ford Focus 1.6TDCi Zetec (the newest model made from 2011)
  • VW Golf 1.6TDi Match (probably a Mk6 as the Mk7s are still a bit too new and therefore pricey)
  • Hyundai i30 1.6CRDi - either the 110 Active or the better spec'd 128 Style (again the newer model from 2013 onwards)
Does anyone have any experience with the above cars or would like to offer an opinion. I have done a lot of reading and keep going round in circles - undoubtedly the Golf has the best reputation but for the same price as a 3ish year old, 30000 mile Golf you can have a 1 year old <10000 mile i30 or a Focus somewhere between the two.

Does anyone have any other suggestions - the reviews for the above are all fairly good, but for other alternative (like a Leon) they are more varied...

Thanks in advance

George
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 16:31   #2
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You might also want to consider a Kia C'eed 1.6 CRDI, very similar to the i30 and does come with a slightly longer warranty if bought from a Kia Dealer.

My Dad had an 07 plate one for a while and he was very happy with it, but needed a bigger car when we found he wouldbe doing losts more for his elderly parents otherwise he'd still be driving it today.

I did get to drive it on a few occassions and it was quite a nice car to drive. Plenty of poke when needed and handled quite nicely.
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 16:49   #3
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Thanks for the suggestion - I'll look into it. The newer model gets good review actually although maybe not quite as good as the previous model (just looking at What Car) and is very similar in terms of spec and price to the i30. I was initially put off by the name really but you can't really argue with a 7 year warranty and fairly good reviews...
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 17:38   #4
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Hyundai i30 CRDi is nice, hands down, easy to drive in the city as on the highway, but what diesel car aint, right? Really didn't have any complaints about it. My parents had 2008 or 2007 model if I recall correctly. I drove it to work (some 80kms from home to work) almost every day for few months when I was living at my parents house. It was great to drive wheter it was day or night, raining, snowing or hot summer day (AC ofc).

Can't say anything about the other cars you listed, but I really don't have anything bad to say about the i30.
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 20:34   #5
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my advice.... go for a 2.0tdi match bluemotion tech golf... don't bother with the 1.6tdi... its stupidly underpowered for any major motorway driving, and it seems to be more prone to DPF failures, egr failures plus its a newer engine vs the older 2.0tdi which is essentially a much older engine but with fancier diesel injection system...

for 13k you can get a fairly decent 2.0tdi...
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 22:22   #6
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The new Fords are awesome, I drove a 2014 Fiesta for 3 weeks and didn't want to give it back. Not the same exciting driving experience as the Clio, especially with the lackluster 74bhp in a heavy 5 door car, but certainly a well equipped and very comfortable commuter vehicle. On style and features it has the (MK3) Clio beat in every way, but the little Clio is still the most fun I've had under 2 litres as far as driving and handling goes, especially for a Diesel!

That being said, I'm a sucker for a VW as well, and the Golf is hard to beat. Very hard.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 07:39   #7
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You might include the Skoda Rapid diesel, one year old ones start under 10K
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 09:00   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bixie_62 View Post
my advice.... go for a 2.0tdi match bluemotion tech golf... don't bother with the 1.6tdi... its stupidly underpowered for any major motorway driving, and it seems to be more prone to DPF failures, egr failures plus its a newer engine vs the older 2.0tdi which is essentially a much older engine but with fancier diesel injection system...

for 13k you can get a fairly decent 2.0tdi...
I'd second this at least in relation to the engine. 'm presently stuck in a mk7 with a 1.6 and its god awful. If you want VW and to stretch your money a bit 13k will go a lot further on a Leon/Octavia.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 10:59   #9
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys. More to think about to be certain Some replies below

Quote:
Originally Posted by bixie_62 View Post
my advice.... go for a 2.0tdi match bluemotion tech golf... don't bother with the 1.6tdi... its stupidly underpowered for any major motorway driving, and it seems to be more prone to DPF failures, egr failures plus its a newer engine vs the older 2.0tdi which is essentially a much older engine but with fancier diesel injection system...

for 13k you can get a fairly decent 2.0tdi...
Thanks for the suggestion but I'm trying to find something that will save me money over my current car - the 2.0tdi sounds like an awesome beast but it's practically the same mpg and car tax as my current car...

Quote:
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The new Fords are awesome, I drove a 2014 Fiesta for 3 weeks and didn't want to give it back. Not the same exciting driving experience as the Clio, especially with the lackluster 74bhp in a heavy 5 door car, but certainly a well equipped and very comfortable commuter vehicle. On style and features it has the (MK3) Clio beat in every way, but the little Clio is still the most fun I've had under 2 litres as far as driving and handling goes, especially for a Diesel!

That being said, I'm a sucker for a VW as well, and the Golf is hard to beat. Very hard.
That's the problem I'm finding - all reviews I've read basically have a line in that says "it's good but it's not as good as a Golf." I had a very similar dilemma when I bought my current car - at the time I could afford a 5 year old Focus or a 7 year old Golf whereas now I can afford a 2 year old Focus or a 3/4 year old Golf

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You might include the Skoda Rapid diesel, one year old ones start under 10K
I'd not looked at those but will give them a look - thanks for the suggestion.

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I'd second this at least in relation to the engine. 'm presently stuck in a mk7 with a 1.6 and its god awful. If you want VW and to stretch your money a bit 13k will go a lot further on a Leon/Octavia.
I'm not a super heavy use driver - if I was I'd definitely consider a bigger engine. My daily commute is a 20 mile journey with about 17 miles of that along the M20. Occasionally we do journeys of about 150 miles but not very regularly (think 10 times a year or less). As it stands I think I'd rather have a car with a slightly smaller engine but a bit more kit than vice-versa. My Focus is 113bhp (or at least it was when new) and the 1.6TDCi engines I've been looking at are all +/- 10% of that so I'm not sure I'd notice too much difference...
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 11:37   #10
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Another vote for the Kia option - see if you can book a test drive. You'll be pleasantly surprised and the value is simply unbeatable.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 12:33   #11
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I'm not a super heavy use driver - if I was I'd definitely consider a bigger engine. My daily commute is a 20 mile journey with about 17 miles of that along the M20. Occasionally we do journeys of about 150 miles but not very regularly (think 10 times a year or less). As it stands I think I'd rather have a car with a slightly smaller engine but a bit more kit than vice-versa. My Focus is 113bhp (or at least it was when new) and the 1.6TDCi engines I've been looking at are all +/- 10% of that so I'm not sure I'd notice too much difference...
In that case you'd be much better served by a petrol engine. Most diesels won't even get warm in 20 miles and IMO you're asking for DPF issues. 13k will comfortably get you into a 13/63 plate Leon 1.4TSI which is a nice engine (to be honest the 1.2 is a lot better than it sounds like it would be). Or if you're feeling nuts you could be into a last model cupra mk6 GTI.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 13:10   #12
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I'd never even heard of DPF until just now The thing that put me off the petrol versions of all of the above is that, on the whole, they are not road tax free and are quoted at significantly fewer mpg than the diesels (for the i30 for example a 1.4 petrol is 46mpg as opposed to 74mpg for the diesel). Do you really think I would not see a difference?
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 14:03   #13
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I'd never even heard of DPF until just now The thing that put me off the petrol versions of all of the above is that, on the whole, they are not road tax free and are quoted at significantly fewer mpg than the diesels (for the i30 for example a 1.4 petrol is 46mpg as opposed to 74mpg for the diesel). Do you really think I would not see a difference?
I used to drive a leon 2.0 TDCI 150, got about 60/65 mpg on Motorways, 40mpg commuting in traffic. Had a 1.2TSI Auto as a loaner for a couple of weeks and was doing a consistent 50 everywhere, despite me ragging its tits off (its bearable but pretty sluggish). Mother in law has a 1.4TSI golf VII (th 122 version) and it averages over 50 on a mix of town & motorway driving. Performance wise its as least as good as a 1.6 diesel.

You will notice a difference vs. the non turbo engines in something like an i30 which don't have all the snazzy tech on them. Any of the newer ones (Ford Ecoboost, Fiat Twinair etc) are pretty decent.

As far as road tax goes, its only 30, and you'll save considerably more by not getting a diesel. Indeed theres a decent argument that in terms of total lifetime cost then depending on the mileage you do you're actually better in a big thirsty petrol, reason being they depreciate a lot faster, particularly as you get up the size range. 13k would comfortable get you into a 3 year old 318i.
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 12:20   #14
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I used to drive a leon 2.0 TDCI 150, got about 60/65 mpg on Motorways, 40mpg commuting in traffic. Had a 1.2TSI Auto as a loaner for a couple of weeks and was doing a consistent 50 everywhere, despite me ragging its tits off (its bearable but pretty sluggish). Mother in law has a 1.4TSI golf VII (th 122 version) and it averages over 50 on a mix of town & motorway driving. Performance wise its as least as good as a 1.6 diesel.

You will notice a difference vs. the non turbo engines in something like an i30 which don't have all the snazzy tech on them. Any of the newer ones (Ford Ecoboost, Fiat Twinair etc) are pretty decent.

As far as road tax goes, its only 30, and you'll save considerably more by not getting a diesel. Indeed theres a decent argument that in terms of total lifetime cost then depending on the mileage you do you're actually better in a big thirsty petrol, reason being they depreciate a lot faster, particularly as you get up the size range. 13k would comfortable get you into a 3 year old 318i.
For most of the cars that I've been looking at the difference in tax is actually much greater than that - the Hyundai for example is 0 for the Diesel and 140 tax for the petrol...

As for the DPF - would my current Focus (04) have one? If so then I've never had issues with it on the runs that I do. I'd prefer a diesel to be honest as we do often drive places at the weekends too which are ~15-20 miles away (I do 10-12k a year)
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 18:28   #15
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if you are blowing all your budget on something newer and it may be a bit of s struggle, its hard to argue with Kia/Hyundai respective 7 and 5yr warranties to limit your exposure to financial risk as new car do in fact still break down.

Regarding DPF your focus would not have had one, might depend on manufacturer but the DPF on our diesels only impact has been horrendous MPG when it activates, ~50% drop in mpg for a day perhaps.

You will rarely hit the advertised mpg figures on these petro/diesels unless you are a very steady/slow driver. try and get a loan of the cars you are interested in for the day quite a few manufacturers will accommodate.
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 18:42   #16
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if you are blowing all your budget on something newer and it may be a bit of s struggle, its hard to argue with Kia/Hyundai respective 7 and 5yr warranties to limit your exposure to financial risk as new car do in fact still break down.
That's exactly what I'm thinking - for the most part the warranties are transferrable so if I went down that route and picked up a 2 year old one then I'd be left with a car with a 5 or 3 year warranty...
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 20:31   #17
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 21:41   #18
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As for the DPF - would my current Focus (04) have one? If so then I've never had issues with it on the runs that I do. I'd prefer a diesel to be honest as we do often drive places at the weekends too which are ~15-20 miles away (I do 10-12k a year)
None of the Focus 1.8 Diesels have a DPF and that includes the last ones built; i.e. the Facelift Mk2s (2008-2011).
However nearly all Focus 1.6TDCI/2.0TDCI have a DPF (only the 90PS 1.6TDCI doesn't) and the DPF comes in two types :-
  • Stage 4 emission which requires about 2.5L (at 30 a Litre ) of EOLYS fluid (look for the separate tank mounted between the lower rear cross-member and the main fuel tank) every 37.5k miles and the DPF must be changed every 75k miles about 1000 in parts alone from Ford
  • Stage 5 emission which uses a CDPF (not always shown on ETIS, but they all have a CDPF) and typically doesn't require changing unless lots of very short (i.e. shopping trolley mode) journeys are done.
EOLYS DPF = Rare metal coated DPF element, might get a bit of cash at the scrappies.
CDPF = Ceramic DPF element, worth naff all at the scrappies.

Easy way to find out if a Focus has a DPF (and what stage emissions) is to use the Ford ETIS website; click on the 'Vehicle' tab and then bung your Registration or VIN into the appropriate box. Top right hand box of the resulting webpage will have the details; e.g.
Emission: Stage IV + DPF Emissions (from 58 plate 1.6TDCI)
Emission: Stage IV Emissions (from 59 plate 1.8TDCI) no DPF
Emission: Stage V Emissions (from 11 plate 1.6TDCI) CDPF
Emission: Stage V Emissions (from 14 plate 2.0TDCI) CDPF
I couldn't find a 90PS diesel to use as an example.

HTH.
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Old 17th Nov 2014, 13:57   #19
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None of the Focus 1.8 Diesels have a DPF and that includes the last ones built; i.e. the Facelift Mk2s (2008-2011).
However nearly all Focus 1.6TDCI/2.0TDCI have a DPF (only the 90PS 1.6TDCI doesn't) and the DPF comes in two types :-
  • Stage 4 emission which requires about 2.5L (at 30 a Litre ) of EOLYS fluid (look for the separate tank mounted between the lower rear cross-member and the main fuel tank) every 37.5k miles and the DPF must be changed every 75k miles about 1000 in parts alone from Ford
  • Stage 5 emission which uses a CDPF (not always shown on ETIS, but they all have a CDPF) and typically doesn't require changing unless lots of very short (i.e. shopping trolley mode) journeys are done.
EOLYS DPF = Rare metal coated DPF element, might get a bit of cash at the scrappies.
CDPF = Ceramic DPF element, worth naff all at the scrappies.

Easy way to find out if a Focus has a DPF (and what stage emissions) is to use the Ford ETIS website; click on the 'Vehicle' tab and then bung your Registration or VIN into the appropriate box. Top right hand box of the resulting webpage will have the details; e.g.
Emission: Stage IV + DPF Emissions (from 58 plate 1.6TDCI)
Emission: Stage IV Emissions (from 59 plate 1.8TDCI) no DPF
Emission: Stage V Emissions (from 11 plate 1.6TDCI) CDPF
Emission: Stage V Emissions (from 14 plate 2.0TDCI) CDPF
I couldn't find a 90PS diesel to use as an example.

HTH.
Thanks for the detailed post! Not sure how I missed it tbh Will definitely have a look at that - this whole DPF thing has seriously made me reconsider a diesel...

Would my daily commute definitely be too short for the DPF to burn off the particles effectively?
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Old 17th Nov 2014, 14:19   #20
mrbungle
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DPF's can be a pain in the back side but modern petrol engines also have tons of emissions control rubish on them now as well.

No basic engines any more!

I would just avoid anything that requires EOLYS as its pricey and adds various potential electrical pitfalls in what is a fairly simple principle otherwise.
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