Wild Tangent: "Consoles are dead" - bit-tech.net Forums

CardJoe · 19th May 2008, 09:43

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/05...les-are-dead/1

Alex St. John, creator of DirectX and CEO of Wild Tangent, reckons that the console is a dying breed - PC is the future!

liratheal · 19th May 2008, 09:48

I think that big cigar is affecting his mind.

When consoles are constantly shipping, and practically all generations ship in the double millions of units, where's he realistically coming from?

steveo_mcg · 19th May 2008, 09:53

Well with the PS3 attempting to position itself as a PC/Media hybrid that also does games there is nearly logic in what he's saying. The traditional mono-purpose console is dead, well except the wii...

If your console arm is loosing money hand over fist then what is the motivation to make more? Blu-ray in the case of Sony and market awareness for MS.

Jordan Wise · 19th May 2008, 09:55

please quote this guy more and mark rein/epic less. and yeah, nice cigar

Wicz · 19th May 2008, 10:02

The best way forward is for all consoles to be based on same hardware ( i.e compatible ) and that fits the pc perfectly

Much shorter development time with only one architecture to worry about and infinite upgradeability, customization options. I think he's right, although we may not recognise them as pc's

bowman · 19th May 2008, 10:08

They're converging. I remember with the ps2 and such when the console users' arguments were that oh it's so simple, no upgrading, no patching, oh and we don't have to worry about piracy as well, etc..

Well, I seem to recall consoles needing both patches and firmware updates to even work with GTA IV, this year's platform-selling juggernaut. I seem to recall that same game being leaked on torrents before release and played by crafty Xbox 360 owners.

As the consoles gain more and more functionality and complexity, they'll end up being so close to a PC developers might as well drop the hardware limitations they are constrained by and go for a platform that is much more flexible and where games are easier to update.. The PC. Preferably using Steam.

Silver51 · 19th May 2008, 10:37

Does anyone else think he looks like Rip Torn in that picture?

While I don't personally think consoles are dead, I do agree with his reason (DRM) for them being so strong right now.

shigllgetcha · 19th May 2008, 10:37

is it so hard to stopn piracy?? having to register your game online, why does this not stop piracy or is it just not utalised properly- i know its years ago but i dont play on pc anymore but i remember having to reg Delta Force 1 online then it made no difference as the same code could be used on different PC's, could registration not stop piracy if it was used properly

Mister_Tad · 19th May 2008, 10:46

Damnit! I just got rid of my main rig and picked up a console because of what Epic said, now I'm going to have to switch back!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigllgetcha

is it so hard to stopn piracy??

Piracy is so difficult to stop because all of the teenagers in the world are collectively a lot smarter than all of the games developers in the world.

badders · 19th May 2008, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Tad

Piracy is so difficult to stop because all of the teenagers in the world are collectively a lot smarter than all of the games developers in the world.

That's a bit like the old adage that engineers spend all their time developing better and better foolproof systems, and the universe spends all it's time making better and better fools...

Consoles will carry on until it's no longer economically viable to design & build just games machines. PCs will carry on regardless, because they do other things as well.

When the consoles become no more than standardised PCs (as multipurpose as PCs), then will they really be consoles any more?

mmorgue · 19th May 2008, 11:31

Meh, this debate has gone on for years and will continue to go on.

Of course, PCs will undoubtedly have the potential for far better graphics and processing power than any console, as a console is a 'fixed' and static bit of kit whereas PCs are (usually, he says) upgradable.

But there's pros and cons for either side but one of the biggest, I think, would be the ease/speed/time in terms of development:

- On the one hand PCs are far superior in power and scalability, but are a pain for developing in that you don't have the ease fo a singular, uniform system to write code for -- every PC is different, with different drivers, hardware, OS versions, etc.

- A console on the other hand, *is* uniform -- the hardware and drivers are internal and not exposed to the outside world, so a developer can easily assume that what is written will run the same on all consoles (i.e., PS3 code on PS3s -- please, don't try and be stupid and think i mean PS3 game running on an Xbox...)

As for piracy, etc -- well, that's on both consoles and PCs so i dont think that is a deciding factor. You can fairly easily pirate software for the consoles just as you can for the PCs.

donnie · 19th May 2008, 11:55

I can see in the future upgradable parts for the consoles and i can't help but wonder where its all going end.

roryok · 19th May 2008, 11:59

well, he's half right. consoles exist only as a game delivery mechanism. an xbox or ps3 is basically a gaming pc sold at a loss with a dumbed down interface and control system. this serves three big advantages.

1. it reduces piracy because the games use proprietary systems
2. it allows stuff to be developed for a standard set of hardware.
3. it makes them easier to use

However, since consoles are becoming more and more advanced, and turning into dumbed down PCs, its makes more and more sense to just figure out a way of fixing the two things that plague pcs - piracy and hardware variations. hardware variations are more difficult, obviously, but big companies like ASUS and Apple are standardising hardware in their own way. In fact, I'd say we're likely to see console/PC hybrids in the near future - ie, PCs with standard hardware, and games devs developing for that standard. Maybe we'll even see a new, console like version of linux with some kind of steam like client built in to it. With the success that ASUS are having with the Eee PC, I can really see them bringing out a whole slew of Eee products, like desktops, media centers, and maybe even a little PC games machine.

chicorasia · 19th May 2008, 12:42

Has this turned into a race to see who can say the most bombastic statement AKA crazy race for free media exposure?

Firehed · 19th May 2008, 14:05

Quote:

“Nobody needs a console when a game's value and DRM is defined by community or an input device. Consoles just serve to keep you from playing a game you didn't pay for,” said St. John in what Gamesutra described as just "one of several brazen claims."

So is that an official piracy endorsement?

As an aside, that may be the worst corporate headshot ever.

wolff000 · 19th May 2008, 14:30

I don't think that is tobacco in his cigar. He has got to be smoking something to think consoles are dead. The only company losing money on their console is Sony and we all know they blew it on the PS3 when it launched. MS and Nintendo are raking in millions. Consoles are going to continue as long as gaming exists. I know literally thousands of gamers that are console only some don't even own a computer. (I used to work in a game store which is why I know so many.) Consoles are far from dead but I don't think PC gaming is ever going to go away either.

MrMonroe · 19th May 2008, 16:17

What a ludicrous argument. A console is a delivery system just like the computer. It's a vastly inferior system in terms of the actual experience of gaming, IMO, but it's very attractive to developers who don't like it when people pirate their games.

This guy is just blowing smoke because he doesn't want the system that he codes for to die. He'd have to go get another job.

Thacrudd · 19th May 2008, 17:50

I don't see either industry taking any hard falls. Both have their adavntages, and both have disadvantages. Piracy will always exist, but It'll just get harder and harder to "pirate". Very, Very fine line between priracy prevention and privacy intrusion....

mikeuk2004 · 19th May 2008, 18:24

PC gaming will always exist as long as there are PC's. And because everyone seems to be dependant on pc's there will allways be games to play.

dr-strangelove · 19th May 2008, 22:52

I can't see why everyone seems to be so convinced that there is a 'battle' between consoles vs pc's. I have always owned a console and a pc and they were never competing for my money or my time. I think that all consoles do is bring people who might not otherwise have been gamers into the market, they do not 'steal' pc customers

19th May 2008, 09:43	#1
CardJoe Player Character bit-tech Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,974	Wild Tangent: "Consoles are dead" http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/05...les-are-dead/1 Alex St. John, creator of DirectX and CEO of Wild Tangent, reckons that the console is a dying breed - PC is the future! __________________ this is joe's non-bit-tech blog

19th May 2008, 09:48	#2
liratheal Just got a great book on tape Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: High Wycombe, UK Posts: 3,608	I think that big cigar is affecting his mind. When consoles are constantly shipping, and practically all generations ship in the double millions of units, where's he realistically coming from? __________________ Gigabyte MA790FX, X4 9950 Black Edition, 8gb Geil Black Dragon, 2x4870 512mb, Antec TruePower Quattro 850w I game, Do you?

19th May 2008, 09:53	#3
steveo_mcg What owl? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,982	Well with the PS3 attempting to position itself as a PC/Media hybrid that also does games there is nearly logic in what he's saying. The traditional mono-purpose console is dead, well except the wii... If your console arm is loosing money hand over fist then what is the motivation to make more? Blu-ray in the case of Sony and market awareness for MS. __________________ No boom today, boom tomorrow... there's always a boom tomorrow.

19th May 2008, 09:55	#4
Jordan Wise Baby called to see the boss... Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Newcastle Uni Posts: 597	please quote this guy more and mark rein/epic less. and yeah, nice cigar __________________ Favourite Max Payne quote: "He was trying to buy sand for his hour glass, and I wasn't selling any" Steam ID:jordanwise

19th May 2008, 10:37	#8
shigllgetcha Hypermodder Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ireland Posts: 849	is it so hard to stopn piracy?? having to register your game online, why does this not stop piracy or is it just not utalised properly- i know its years ago but i dont play on pc anymore but i remember having to reg Delta Force 1 online then it made no difference as the same code could be used on different PC's, could registration not stop piracy if it was used properly __________________ xbox live id: shigllgetcha ¦ I dont trust anything I hear on QI PC: some dell

19th May 2008, 10:02	#5
Wicz Modder Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 59	The best way forward is for all consoles to be based on same hardware ( i.e compatible ) and that fits the pc perfectly Much shorter development time with only one architecture to worry about and infinite upgradeability, customization options. I think he's right, although we may not recognise them as pc's

19th May 2008, 10:08	#6
bowman Multimodder Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 249	They're converging. I remember with the ps2 and such when the console users' arguments were that oh it's so simple, no upgrading, no patching, oh and we don't have to worry about piracy as well, etc.. Well, I seem to recall consoles needing both patches and firmware updates to even work with GTA IV, this year's platform-selling juggernaut. I seem to recall that same game being leaked on torrents before release and played by crafty Xbox 360 owners. As the consoles gain more and more functionality and complexity, they'll end up being so close to a PC developers might as well drop the hardware limitations they are constrained by and go for a platform that is much more flexible and where games are easier to update.. The PC. Preferably using Steam.

19th May 2008, 10:37	#7
Silver51 I cast flare! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cornwall Posts: 1,188	Does anyone else think he looks like Rip Torn in that picture? While I don't personally think consoles are dead, I do agree with his reason (DRM) for them being so strong right now.

19th May 2008, 11:31	#11
mmorgue Supermodder Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mos Eisley, in the bar... Posts: 378	Meh, this debate has gone on for years and will continue to go on. Of course, PCs will undoubtedly have the potential for far better graphics and processing power than any console, as a console is a 'fixed' and static bit of kit whereas PCs are (usually, he says) upgradable. But there's pros and cons for either side but one of the biggest, I think, would be the ease/speed/time in terms of development: - On the one hand PCs are far superior in power and scalability, but are a pain for developing in that you don't have the ease fo a singular, uniform system to write code for -- every PC is different, with different drivers, hardware, OS versions, etc. - A console on the other hand, is uniform -- the hardware and drivers are internal and not exposed to the outside world, so a developer can easily assume that what is written will run the same on all consoles (i.e., PS3 code on PS3s -- please, don't try and be stupid and think i mean PS3 game running on an Xbox...) As for piracy, etc -- well, that's on both consoles and PCs so i dont think that is a deciding factor. You can fairly easily pirate software for the consoles just as you can for the PCs.

19th May 2008, 11:55	#12
donnie Moddin' my way out of a paper bag Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 77	I can see in the future upgradable parts for the consoles and i can't help but wonder where its all going end. __________________ 780i - Q6600 - EVGA 8800GTS - 3GB GEIL - LIAN LI V2100 - SWIFTECH WC KIT

19th May 2008, 11:59	#13
roryok What's a Dremel? Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 14	well, he's half right. consoles exist only as a game delivery mechanism. an xbox or ps3 is basically a gaming pc sold at a loss with a dumbed down interface and control system. this serves three big advantages. 1. it reduces piracy because the games use proprietary systems 2. it allows stuff to be developed for a standard set of hardware. 3. it makes them easier to use However, since consoles are becoming more and more advanced, and turning into dumbed down PCs, its makes more and more sense to just figure out a way of fixing the two things that plague pcs - piracy and hardware variations. hardware variations are more difficult, obviously, but big companies like ASUS and Apple are standardising hardware in their own way. In fact, I'd say we're likely to see console/PC hybrids in the near future - ie, PCs with standard hardware, and games devs developing for that standard. Maybe we'll even see a new, console like version of linux with some kind of steam like client built in to it. With the success that ASUS are having with the Eee PC, I can really see them bringing out a whole slew of Eee products, like desktops, media centers, and maybe even a little PC games machine.

19th May 2008, 12:42	#14
chicorasia Multimodder Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 84	Has this turned into a race to see who can say the most bombastic statement AKA crazy race for free media exposure?

19th May 2008, 14:30	#16
wolff000 I am here to steal your secrets. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Never-never Land Posts: 196	I don't think that is tobacco in his cigar. He has got to be smoking something to think consoles are dead. The only company losing money on their console is Sony and we all know they blew it on the PS3 when it launched. MS and Nintendo are raking in millions. Consoles are going to continue as long as gaming exists. I know literally thousands of gamers that are console only some don't even own a computer. (I used to work in a game store which is why I know so many.) Consoles are far from dead but I don't think PC gaming is ever going to go away either. __________________ The gospel accordong to Myamoto, Chatper three, verse six..."And it is written that the gaming of man will die, and rest silent for two years. But on the eighty-fifth year of the twentieth century, it shall rise again. And its triumphant return shall be heralded by two great plumbers and thou will know gaming has been born again."

19th May 2008, 16:17	#17
MrMonroe Multimodder Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 195	What a ludicrous argument. A console is a delivery system just like the computer. It's a vastly inferior system in terms of the actual experience of gaming, IMO, but it's very attractive to developers who don't like it when people pirate their games. This guy is just blowing smoke because he doesn't want the system that he codes for to die. He'd have to go get another job.

19th May 2008, 17:50	#18
Thacrudd Where's the any key?!? Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,096	I don't see either industry taking any hard falls. Both have their adavntages, and both have disadvantages. Piracy will always exist, but It'll just get harder and harder to "pirate". Very, Very fine line between priracy prevention and privacy intrusion.... __________________ Just as you touch the lives of every life form you meet, so, too, will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win... - Gaspar, The Guru of Time Project: Andromeda Like game/Anime music? My Sale Thread - HERE Bit-Tech Wallpapers! - HERE

19th May 2008, 18:24	#19
mikeuk2004 What you Looking at Fool! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 3,049	PC gaming will always exist as long as there are PC's. And because everyone seems to be dependant on pc's there will allways be games to play. __________________ -\|- Xfire - Mikeuk2005 -\|- Xbox Live - Mike UK 2006 -\|- Playstation Network - Mikeuk2004 -\|-

19th May 2008, 22:52	#20
dr-strangelove Modder Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 50	I can't see why everyone seems to be so convinced that there is a 'battle' between consoles vs pc's. I have always owned a console and a pc and they were never competing for my money or my time. I think that all consoles do is bring people who might not otherwise have been gamers into the market, they do not 'steal' pc customers