Motherboard Issues - Page 2 - bit-tech.net Forums

NickElliott · 29th Jul 2008, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy_the_tortoise

Yeah, gave me a chance to get more familiar with the hardware in time for my first build, which I bought the components for last night.

Excellent, I built my first PC over 6 years ago and I am just about to rebuild, sounds like I'm a week or two behind you. Hope it goes well and have fun!

Timmy_the_tortoise · 29th Jul 2008, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickElliott

Excellent, I built my first PC over 6 years ago and I am just about to rebuild, sounds like I'm a week or two behind you. Hope it goes well and have fun!

Given my £700 spec-sheet, I bloody hope it goes well too!

Core 2 Q6600
Radeon 4850
4GB 800MHz OCZ DDR2 SDRAM
Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R
Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB HDD
LG Blu-ray/HD DVD combo drive
OCZ Stealth Xstream 600W
Antec NSK2480
Scythe Ninja Mini

I then expect to overclock the Q6600 to around 3GHz.. and the 4850, if I can sort out the cooling issues with the card..

I'm really proud of my choices.. It's a HTPC, except with a little more Oomph for playing games and using photoshop and things like that.. It's been in the research stage since April.

chrisb2e9 · 29th Jul 2008, 22:18

cooling issues on the 4850? I know it runs hot but its still stable. I did have driver issues on mine giving me blue screens but deleting the drivers and doing a clean install fixed that. I had it running in 30C heat without any game crashes. the blue screens were all at the desktop when i would try to launch a game. if it was heat then it would happen while the game was running. (logically anyway)

Timmy_the_tortoise · 29th Jul 2008, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisb2e9

cooling issues on the 4850? I know it runs hot but its still stable. I did have driver issues on mine giving me blue screens but deleting the drivers and doing a clean install fixed that. I had it running in 30C heat without any game crashes. the blue screens were all at the desktop when i would try to launch a game. if it was heat then it would happen while the game was running. (logically anyway)

Really?

I was under the impression that the 4850 ran REALLY hot.. too hot for overclocking... which is what I intend to do with mine.

chrisb2e9 · 29th Jul 2008, 22:49

oh, I didn't understand that you wanted to overclock it. in that case yeah get some better cooling. running stock it is hot but not so hot that the card is going to crash on you. biggest problem is the fan doesn't move much air and when it does speed up its pretty loud. I've been thinking of getting better cooling so that I can overclock mine. but for stock settings I dont see a need for more cooling.

Timmy_the_tortoise · 29th Jul 2008, 22:55

I'm not so sure about using an after market GPU cooler... Do they have standard clips like a CPU cooler? or do they screw in? Is it fiddly? Would I need to remove and re-apply thermal paste?

It's really something I've never looked into, because it's something I could easily see myself screwing up..

I was just gonna see if I could work around it through the drivers.. apparently have people found ways around the problem.. I think the stock fan never goes near 100% speed.. and you can manually set the speed and thresholds by editing a particular driver file...

chrisb2e9 · 29th Jul 2008, 23:40

yeah thats true you can increase the fan speed manually. I've been waiting for the next set of drivers to come out in the hope that they will have options to increase the fan speed. I think that Ati is aware of how loud the fan gets and thats why they limited it to start with.
As for coolers, to the best of my memory they use screws, and yes you would have to reapply thermal paste. thats not very hard though.

This one
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...e=THERMALRIGHT
is really expensive, but can be mounted two ways and with a good fan (bought seperate) is supposed to be one of if not the best.
On the graph on that same page it drops the 8800 temps by almost 40 degrees. that would give a lot of overclocking potential.

edit:
this one doesn't work as well but users reported temps at load dropping from about 90 with the stock cooling to 60 with this one installed.
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Coolink
This cooler is only 30 bucks compared to 60 or 70 for the other one i listed.
One thing about this one is that when its installed, part of it comes in contact with a ram heatsink and if you dont remove the ram heatsink it will cause you to have higher temps. review listed here:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...er-review.html

NickElliott · 29th Jul 2008, 23:45

Everything I have read so far indicates the 4850 runs really hot.

Sapphire are bringing out a 'non-reference' version, the Sapphire Radeon HD 4850 TOXIC. This card is fitted with a Zalman cooler which means it runs much cooler and quieter however it effectively takes up the width of 2 slots.

Here are a couple of reviews:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=14560
http://www.elite*******s.com/cms/ind...=594&Itemid=27

Both seem to indicate this version is quieter and cooler than the reference card and, of course, has better overclocking potential.

It was listed on Ebuyer but I've just looked now and it is no longer on sale, strange as it was there yesterday.

Timmy_the_tortoise · 30th Jul 2008, 10:19

Apparently a BIOS flash can set the idle clock, and therefore the idle temps, right.

If I can pluck up enough courage, I might try that..

kenco_uk · 30th Jul 2008, 11:57

They run hot because the Powerplay feature in the drivers hasn't been enabled/fixed yet, apparently. It's supposed to work similar to Intel's Speedstep, i.e. it underclocks and undervolts the processor at idle.

Link to possible fix? (haven't read through it yet).

Timmy_the_tortoise · 30th Jul 2008, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenco_uk

They run hot because the Powerplay feature in the drivers hasn't been enabled/fixed yet, apparently. It's supposed to work similar to Intel's Speedstep, i.e. it underclocks and undervolts the processor at idle.

Link to possible fix? (haven't read through it yet).

I'm afraid that doesn't look like a fix.. It's for laptop IGPs.. Although, having said that, I only skimmed through it..

I may just end up waiting (and hoping) for an ATI driver fix..

NickElliott · 30th Jul 2008, 19:22

There's another supplier planning to offer better cooling and noise levels for the 4850:

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=14697

EDIT: This is just a cooler, not the card and a cooler: http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=166.

Timmy_the_tortoise · 30th Jul 2008, 19:37

Ebuyer have decided to play silly buggers and cancel my order.. My billing address doesn't match my bank account's address.. because I've moved house and not told my bank.. Now I have to go into Barclays on Saturday and change it.. then I'll probably get everything a week later than expected.

Ahh well, at least my Ninja Mini came from Amazon today.. I'm locked in now.. I can't not buy it all..

NickElliott · 30th Jul 2008, 19:45

Ha! Security comes and bites you in the...

But you are right, it's too late to stop now; onward!

Timmy_the_tortoise · 1st Aug 2008, 13:06

I'm back on track now.. Managed to get to a bank last night, and re-order everything with an upgraded P&P so it gets here tomorrow.. I also upgraded my PSU to a Corsair TX 650W, since Corsair PSUs seem to be all the rage as it were.

Can't wait!

NickElliott · 2nd Aug 2008, 10:18

So, if all goes to plan do you start building your rig this weekend? I ordered a few bits and pieces a couple of days ago but but not enough to get started with yet.

BTW on the 4850 heat issue there's another review of the TOXIC here which mentions that ATI have received a lot of complaints about the heating problems on cards fitted with the reference cooler:

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/toxic_hd4850/

Timmy_the_tortoise · 2nd Aug 2008, 11:19

I've got some problems..

I've begun building.. Mobo is in the case and everything.. but the power headers on this mobo are driving me crazy! The manual hardly explains what's what at all!

EDIT: Got it working.. had another look at the manual.. turns out there was a vital Diagram that I missed.

NickElliott · 4th Aug 2008, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy_the_tortoise

I've got some problems..

I've begun building.. Mobo is in the case and everything.. but the power headers on this mobo are driving me crazy! The manual hardly explains what's what at all!

EDIT: Got it working.. had another look at the manual.. turns out there was a vital Diagram that I missed.

Yes, these things happen. On my first build the printed manual that came with the motherboard had an error on the diagram and I spent hours trying to get it working, eventually I realised it wasn't me and was able to get the updated version off the Internet and within minutes was up and running!

How did the build go?

Timmy_the_tortoise · 4th Aug 2008, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickElliott

Yes, these things happen. On my first build the printed manual that came with the motherboard had an error on the diagram and I spent hours trying to get it working, eventually I realised it wasn't me and was able to get the updated version off the Internet and within minutes was up and running!

How did the build go?

It went well, thanks. Well, as well as a first build can go. I had some trouble with screwing in the Optical Drive.. Well, no trouble screwing it in.. just some trouble refitting the drive cage since I'd put the drive in backwards. I also didn't plug the HDD's powercable in properly.. which caused issues when installing Vista.

It's all up and running now though, which I'm happy about. HD DVDs and Blu-rays play with about 10% CPU load.. and minimal GPU load. Core Temp gives me idling temps of around 30C.. And it MUST be wrong, but GPU-Z is telling me I idle at around 50C.. Which, considering the average of 80-85C most people get with the 4850, can't possibly be right. I'll find a better GPU-temp program later.

I've not tested any 3D performance yet, I'm downloading 3DMark06, and plan on installing HL2 Ep2, CoD 4 and eventually Crysis to test it out. Can't wait to FINALLY play Medieval II at 1920x1200 with max settings though, I'll be a true armchair (read: bed-bound (My PC is in my bedroom)) General.

For whatever the HELL it's worth, I get a Windows index score of 5.5.. Held back only by my RAM (everything else is 5.9, not sure what the max is), which should be fixed later when I OC, since to overclock my CPU to the desired clock, I need to OC the RAM as well, because my BIOS doesn't have a 1:1 memory divider (4:5 is the smallest, I believe), so I'll end up pushing my 800MHz RAM to around 830MHz on a FSB of just 333MHz. However, I probably won't try overclocking until I've left work, and have a whole 4 weeks' free time before Uni.

kenco_uk · 4th Aug 2008, 15:10

5.9 is the highest, for the moment. You've done well there, the only thing I'm wondering is how do you put an optical drive in the wrong way round?

29th Jul 2008, 23:40	#27
chrisb2e9 Dont do that... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,109	yeah thats true you can increase the fan speed manually. I've been waiting for the next set of drivers to come out in the hope that they will have options to increase the fan speed. I think that Ati is aware of how loud the fan gets and thats why they limited it to start with. As for coolers, to the best of my memory they use screws, and yes you would have to reapply thermal paste. thats not very hard though. This one http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...e=THERMALRIGHT is really expensive, but can be mounted two ways and with a good fan (bought seperate) is supposed to be one of if not the best. On the graph on that same page it drops the 8800 temps by almost 40 degrees. that would give a lot of overclocking potential. edit: this one doesn't work as well but users reported temps at load dropping from about 90 with the stock cooling to 60 with this one installed. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Coolink This cooler is only 30 bucks compared to 60 or 70 for the other one i listed. One thing about this one is that when its installed, part of it comes in contact with a ram heatsink and if you dont remove the ram heatsink it will cause you to have higher temps. review listed here: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...er-review.html Last edited by chrisb2e9; 29th Jul 2008 at 23:50.

30th Jul 2008, 11:57	#30
kenco_uk meow Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bourne, Lincolnshire, UK Posts: 6,510	They run hot because the Powerplay feature in the drivers hasn't been enabled/fixed yet, apparently. It's supposed to work similar to Intel's Speedstep, i.e. it underclocks and undervolts the processor at idle. Link to possible fix? (haven't read through it yet). __________________ MSI X58M - i7 920 4Ghz - 6GB Corsair - GTX275 720/2538 ::: Am I the only one Voting for bit-tech? tweetsabc Last edited by kenco_uk; 30th Jul 2008 at 12:06.

4th Aug 2008, 15:10	#40
kenco_uk meow Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bourne, Lincolnshire, UK Posts: 6,510	5.9 is the highest, for the moment. You've done well there, the only thing I'm wondering is how do you put an optical drive in the wrong way round? __________________ MSI X58M - i7 920 4Ghz - 6GB Corsair - GTX275 720/2538 ::: Am I the only one Voting for bit-tech? tweetsabc

29th Jul 2008, 22:18	#23
chrisb2e9 Dont do that... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,109	cooling issues on the 4850? I know it runs hot but its still stable. I did have driver issues on mine giving me blue screens but deleting the drivers and doing a clean install fixed that. I had it running in 30C heat without any game crashes. the blue screens were all at the desktop when i would try to launch a game. if it was heat then it would happen while the game was running. (logically anyway)

29th Jul 2008, 22:49	#25
chrisb2e9 Dont do that... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,109	oh, I didn't understand that you wanted to overclock it. in that case yeah get some better cooling. running stock it is hot but not so hot that the card is going to crash on you. biggest problem is the fan doesn't move much air and when it does speed up its pretty loud. I've been thinking of getting better cooling so that I can overclock mine. but for stock settings I dont see a need for more cooling.

29th Jul 2008, 22:55	#26
Timmy_the_tortoise International Man of Awesome Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: County Durham, UK Posts: 969	I'm not so sure about using an after market GPU cooler... Do they have standard clips like a CPU cooler? or do they screw in? Is it fiddly? Would I need to remove and re-apply thermal paste? It's really something I've never looked into, because it's something I could easily see myself screwing up.. I was just gonna see if I could work around it through the drivers.. apparently have people found ways around the problem.. I think the stock fan never goes near 100% speed.. and you can manually set the speed and thresholds by editing a particular driver file...

29th Jul 2008, 23:45	#28
NickElliott Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hertford, UK Posts: 102	Everything I have read so far indicates the 4850 runs really hot. Sapphire are bringing out a 'non-reference' version, the Sapphire Radeon HD 4850 TOXIC. This card is fitted with a Zalman cooler which means it runs much cooler and quieter however it effectively takes up the width of 2 slots. Here are a couple of reviews: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=14560 http://www.elite*******s.com/cms/ind...=594&Itemid=27 Both seem to indicate this version is quieter and cooler than the reference card and, of course, has better overclocking potential. It was listed on Ebuyer but I've just looked now and it is no longer on sale, strange as it was there yesterday.

30th Jul 2008, 10:19	#29
Timmy_the_tortoise International Man of Awesome Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: County Durham, UK Posts: 969	Apparently a BIOS flash can set the idle clock, and therefore the idle temps, right. If I can pluck up enough courage, I might try that..

30th Jul 2008, 19:22	#32
NickElliott Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hertford, UK Posts: 102	There's another supplier planning to offer better cooling and noise levels for the 4850: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=14697 EDIT: This is just a cooler, not the card and a cooler: http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=166.

30th Jul 2008, 19:37	#33
Timmy_the_tortoise International Man of Awesome Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: County Durham, UK Posts: 969	Ebuyer have decided to play silly buggers and cancel my order.. My billing address doesn't match my bank account's address.. because I've moved house and not told my bank.. Now I have to go into Barclays on Saturday and change it.. then I'll probably get everything a week later than expected. Ahh well, at least my Ninja Mini came from Amazon today.. I'm locked in now.. I can't not buy it all..

30th Jul 2008, 19:45	#34
NickElliott Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hertford, UK Posts: 102	Ha! Security comes and bites you in the... But you are right, it's too late to stop now; onward!

1st Aug 2008, 13:06	#35
Timmy_the_tortoise International Man of Awesome Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: County Durham, UK Posts: 969	I'm back on track now.. Managed to get to a bank last night, and re-order everything with an upgraded P&P so it gets here tomorrow.. I also upgraded my PSU to a Corsair TX 650W, since Corsair PSUs seem to be all the rage as it were. Can't wait!

2nd Aug 2008, 10:18	#36
NickElliott Multimodder Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hertford, UK Posts: 102	So, if all goes to plan do you start building your rig this weekend? I ordered a few bits and pieces a couple of days ago but but not enough to get started with yet. BTW on the 4850 heat issue there's another review of the TOXIC here which mentions that ATI have received a lot of complaints about the heating problems on cards fitted with the reference cooler: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/toxic_hd4850/

2nd Aug 2008, 11:19	#37
Timmy_the_tortoise International Man of Awesome Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: County Durham, UK Posts: 969	I've got some problems.. I've begun building.. Mobo is in the case and everything.. but the power headers on this mobo are driving me crazy! The manual hardly explains what's what at all! EDIT: Got it working.. had another look at the manual.. turns out there was a vital Diagram that I missed.