RV770: ATI Radeon HD 4850 & 4870 analysis - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 2nd Sep 2008, 11:29

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...cture-review/1

We've seen the benchmarks and how ATI has comeback from nowhere to reclaim the mainstream performance crown, but what's behind this sudden change that makes the new HD 4000-series so compelling? We dive deep down inside to find out.

[USRF]Obiwan · 2nd Sep 2008, 12:23

An incredible detailed article Tim, kudos!

The biggest shock for me, is the power consumption of the 4870x2. You would suspect it will be side by side with the Nvidia top card in idle power. Is this a design flaw? AMD said they made a power efficient 'something' on the cards to put power to a minimum with idle.

I thought the cards would shut down the 3D hardware in a 2D environment and become active when a application required the need for raw 3D power. Also the power it needs when in performance mode is incredible. Is the 483watts at the socket or the card itself? Its almost 120w more the the GTX280. Makes you wonder what a "GTX280 x2" would suck out of the wall.

Tim S · 2nd Sep 2008, 12:50

483W is full system load at the socket with a power supply that's about 80 percent efficient at that load.

frontline · 2nd Sep 2008, 13:15

Great article, well worth waiting for. Thanks!

mrb_no1 · 2nd Sep 2008, 13:21

nice article Smalley, i'll be honest its all a bit too much to digest for me. 16 pages, i think i read 10 but alot of it just goes whooshhhhh over my head. nice article though and for your first major feature after your absence, its a testament to yourself and the support of the staff at bit-tech.

kudos

fatman

Redbeaver · 2nd Sep 2008, 14:08

in Canada here, the 260s is at the same price point at 4870......

zoot2boot · 2nd Sep 2008, 14:49

same thing in australia... which probably means ati is making quite a bit more than nvidia on a per card basis.

Horizon · 2nd Sep 2008, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoot2boot

same thing in australia... which probably means ati is making quite a bit more than nvidia on a per card basis.

What they didn't make enough when the were charging $400US for it?

Ontheronix · 2nd Sep 2008, 18:19

Who will be the first to replace the Vitec 59PR9853 multi-phase by a bigger one ? (see page 5 about power suply of the 4750)

r4tch3t · 3rd Sep 2008, 00:04

Great article Tim, like most of us here I didn't understand all of it. But it is still very informative and an interesting read. Thankyou.

HourBeforeDawn · 3rd Sep 2008, 00:11

well that was certainly the best article I have seen in a while from BT, great job, very nice details.

Spaceraver · 3rd Sep 2008, 02:35

This makes me dizzy.. But kudos to Tim for the effort and for the dizzyness. I love BT for this. (Not to be taken up as any kind of physical effort. :-D )

Nature · 3rd Sep 2008, 06:12

So what's next from ati and Nvidia and when?

Before or after the yule>?

New or improved architecture>?

leexgx · 4th Sep 2008, 00:10

Quote:

With all of this in mind, it’s no surprise that AMD hasn’t changed the way power is delivered to the card. 75W of the board’s power is supplied via the PCI-Express interconnect (there’s no support for 150W power draws through the socket on PCIe 2.0 boards) in order to retain backwards compatibility with older motherboards

i am not sure in the above statment is true, on the amd 790 motherboards (prob FX ones as i can on my board m3a32-mpv) you can set the amount of power the PCI-e lane power can have, as i have read about it someware at some point, and the card will accept it (3870 did)

Tim S · 4th Sep 2008, 00:22

Interesting, I will have to double check that one - thanks!

leexgx · 5th Sep 2008, 01:43

was quite sure as some users was overclocking there 3870 cards and could get more by setting the option in bios on amd based boards that suported the setting to givemore power down the PCI-e slot (you can even pick witch slot gets more power)

Amon · 5th Sep 2008, 03:19

Ctrl+D

Tim S · 9th Sep 2008, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by leexgx

was quite sure as some users was overclocking there 3870 cards and could get more by setting the option in bios on amd based boards that suported the setting to givemore power down the PCI-e slot (you can even pick witch slot gets more power)

I've managed to get around to retesting this and you're right... my bad - I've updated the article to reflect this. Having said that though, the card refuses to work without the 6-pin connector plugged in.

2nd Sep 2008, 11:29	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	RV770: ATI Radeon HD 4850 & 4870 analysis http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...cture-review/1 We've seen the benchmarks and how ATI has comeback from nowhere to reclaim the mainstream performance crown, but what's behind this sudden change that makes the new HD 4000-series so compelling? We dive deep down inside to find out. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

2nd Sep 2008, 12:23	#2
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,220	An incredible detailed article Tim, kudos! The biggest shock for me, is the power consumption of the 4870x2. You would suspect it will be side by side with the Nvidia top card in idle power. Is this a design flaw? AMD said they made a power efficient 'something' on the cards to put power to a minimum with idle. I thought the cards would shut down the 3D hardware in a 2D environment and become active when a application required the need for raw 3D power. Also the power it needs when in performance mode is incredible. Is the 483watts at the socket or the card itself? Its almost 120w more the the GTX280. Makes you wonder what a "GTX280 x2" would suck out of the wall. __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

2nd Sep 2008, 12:50	#3
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	483W is full system load at the socket with a power supply that's about 80 percent efficient at that load. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

2nd Sep 2008, 13:15	#4
frontline Multimodder Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 209	Great article, well worth waiting for. Thanks! __________________ Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.2ghz \| Asus Crosshair III Formula \| Coolermaster V8 CPU Cooler \|4Gb Corsair Dominator DDR3 at 1333mhz \| Sapphire Radeon 5870 \| Crucial M225 128Gb SSD \| Samsung SyncMaster 226BW

2nd Sep 2008, 13:21	#5
mrb_no1 Pie Eater Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pyrford, England Posts: 365	nice article Smalley, i'll be honest its all a bit too much to digest for me. 16 pages, i think i read 10 but alot of it just goes whooshhhhh over my head. nice article though and for your first major feature after your absence, its a testament to yourself and the support of the staff at bit-tech. kudos fatman __________________ Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3600Mhz ¦ Asus Maximus II Formula ¦ ATI Radeon 4890 (1000Mhz Core + 1200Mhz Mem OC) ¦ 2x2G Corsair Dom. PC 8500 @ 1080Mhz ¦ Aquacomputer WC ¦ Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty ¦ 150G Raptor, 2x1500 + 1x750 + 2x500 Seagate (SATA2) ¦ Pioneer DVD burner ¦ Lian Li - PC 73SL Aluminium Silent Server Case ¦ Dell 2007WFP 20" Widescreen ¦ Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Speakers ¦ Sennheiser HD270

2nd Sep 2008, 14:08	#6
Redbeaver Hypermodder Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ontario, CANADA Posts: 719	in Canada here, the 260s is at the same price point at 4870...... __________________ Monita DFI NF4 Expert - X2 3800+ 2.925Ghz - 2x1Gb OCZ Gold XTC DDR500 - 2x eVGA 7900GT SLI - 2x80Gb Seagate 7200.9 [RAID-0 4k] - Enermax Liberty 500 - Vista Ultimate x86 - Silverstone Kublai [Modded] Keisha DFI BloodIron P35 - Q6600 3.6Ghz - 4x1Gb OCZ Gold XTC2 DDR2-800 - eVGA 8800GTS 640MB - 2x80Gb Seagate 7200.9 [RAID-0 4k] - OCZ GameXstream 700 - Vista Ultimate x86 - Silverstone TJ-06 [Modded] www.pecelayam.com

2nd Sep 2008, 14:49	#7
zoot2boot Multimodder Join Date: May 2006 Location: aus Posts: 75	same thing in australia... which probably means ati is making quite a bit more than nvidia on a per card basis.

2nd Sep 2008, 18:19	#9
Ontheronix What's a Dremel? Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2	Who will be the first to replace the Vitec 59PR9853 multi-phase by a bigger one ? (see page 5 about power suply of the 4750)

3rd Sep 2008, 00:04	#10
r4tch3t hmmmm.... Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 2,886	Great article Tim, like most of us here I didn't understand all of it. But it is still very informative and an interesting read. Thankyou. __________________ Fight my Brute The quantum limit of reality might be scaled up because we're all holograms. Obviously. Once more we see that sufficiently advanced physics is indistinguishable from getting really stoned. From here

3rd Sep 2008, 00:11	#11
HourBeforeDawn a.k.a KazeModz Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cali, USA Posts: 1,796	well that was certainly the best article I have seen in a while from BT, great job, very nice details. __________________ Current Rig: RubyRED • Lian-Li A05B • (2) Swiftech 220 Radiators • (2) D5 Variable Pumps • (2) Res • and a whole lot of modding • Retired Rig: Project F.E.A.R. • TT Lanbox Lite • Swiftech H2O-120 • Q6600 G0 OC@3.6ghz • 2900XT • 4gb SuperTalent Memory •

3rd Sep 2008, 02:35	#12
Spaceraver Weekend Junkie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kolding, Denmark Posts: 1,307	This makes me dizzy.. But kudos to Tim for the effort and for the dizzyness. I love BT for this. (Not to be taken up as any kind of physical effort. :-D ) __________________ "Faith: not wanting to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca Last thing I remember, I was drinking this glowing green sht out of a test tube and dancing like a bstard.

3rd Sep 2008, 06:12	#13
Nature Supermodder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jinan, China Posts: 417	So what's next from ati and Nvidia and when? Before or after the yule>? New or improved architecture>? __________________ Peace, Love, Empathy, Respect, Generosity, Smiles, and Hugs

4th Sep 2008, 00:22	#15
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	Interesting, I will have to double check that one - thanks! __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

5th Sep 2008, 01:43	#16
leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do ) Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: uk Posts: 571	was quite sure as some users was overclocking there 3870 cards and could get more by setting the option in bios on amd based boards that suported the setting to givemore power down the PCI-e slot (you can even pick witch slot gets more power) __________________ Qx6850 (OC 3.3Ghz) <> 120 extreme<> rampage forumla <> 9800GX2 <> 8gb 4x2gb (2x gell / 2x adata)<> SSD powered Corsair S128 / WD Black 1TB <> Crative X-fi FalTy FPS <> TK 1000w Toughpower <win7 x64> Click me for folding stats greenfrog.biz / 35947

5th Sep 2008, 03:19	#17
Amon inch-perfect Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: cannoning into the reds, Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,456	Ctrl+D __________________ Defunct Socket 939 San Diego 4000+::2GB PC3200::Radeon 9600 SE 128MB::200GB HDD::24" Dell 2407WFP-HC::WinXP x64/x86 dual boot Dell Vostro 1500 laptop::Socket P Merom T7100::2GB PC5400::Go 8600m GT 256MB::660GB HDD::15.4" WXGA+, 24" Dell 2407WFP-HC::WinXP::Fanatec 911 Wheel+Pedals