New MacBook Pros have dual-GPU, no SLI - bit-tech.net Forums

CardJoe · 17th Oct 2008, 09:02

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/10...l-gpu-no-sli/1

Although Apple's latest top-end MacBook Pro laptops feature two GPUs - one for battery use, one for mains use - they are unable to use both at once for a performance boost.

UncertainGod · 17th Oct 2008, 09:13

The lack of Hybrid-SLi isn't a major issue, however having to log out to change the chip your using is for me.

p3n · 17th Oct 2008, 09:23

Don't want to sound too much like a fanboy (my MBP is on order

) but im guessing the performance boost from joining the 9400 and 9600 would be kinda small considering the 9600 is still doing most of the work and the SLI 'overhead' would go so way to negating these gains?
Doesn't bother me, i've tried SLI in my PC in the past and with two indentical cards its hard enough to get games to scale to a worthwhile increase/wattage - im guessing there is even less support for SLI in OSX

The Infamous Mr D · 17th Oct 2008, 09:24

Considering the amount of money one splashes out on a MacBook Pro, something as well established in the PC market as SLI should be a given. Hell, having to log out and log back in again just to switch GPUs would be a right royal pain in the rectum area. Not really the kind of convenience I would hope for after dropped over a grand on one.

Just another couple of reasons not to buy one, sat next to 'inordinate waste of money' and 'bank balance on life support'.

cjoyce1980 · 17th Oct 2008, 09:24

whats the point.... bored of apple selling crap to sheep

make a really fully functioning product not a chopped down piece of crap and charge an extra Â£500 of it

rant over

Digital-Prozac · 17th Oct 2008, 11:16

The 9400 is integrated into the mobo, but as well as being a IGP, it also contains the controllers for various bits. it can't be removed, just the same as buying a mobo with an IGP, you still but a seperate GFX card and ignore the IGP.

I also believe it's a bit of forward thinking on Apples part with OpenCL and Grandcentral on the horizon in 10.6, when the redundant GPU will be used as a CPU when needed.

As login/log out to swap, it takes 7 seconds, and fwiw, most users will stick with the discreet instead of swapping between them. As I've said, the 9400 is an inheritance due to it being the main chipset controller too.

Finally, it's purley a software limitation atm with utilizing both GPU's, which does mean it will be addressed at a later date either by Apple, NV or some 3rd party dev.

proxess · 17th Oct 2008, 11:21

I think it would be smarter to have 2x 9600m GT, while on battery have only one running and on main have both on SLI.

liratheal · 17th Oct 2008, 11:28

This is so unsurprising it's un true. Anyone who expected SLI in an Apple laptop (Hell, Apple Product) was, is, and will forever be deluding themselves.

Apple see themselves as champions of style and designers*, when do those two things need SLI? Never. Want SLI on a Mac? Buy a Mac Pro, install Windows, and use two single 6-pin power cards which don't need the mobo based bridge. Other than that, simply not going to happen.

*Apples Mission Statement: Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.

Goty · 17th Oct 2008, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital-Prozac

The 9400 is integrated into the mobo, but as well as being a IGP, it also contains the controllers for various bits. it can't be removed, just the same as buying a mobo with an IGP, you still but a seperate GFX card and ignore the IGP.

I also believe it's a bit of forward thinking on Apples part with OpenCL and Grandcentral on the horizon in 10.6, when the redundant GPU will be used as a CPU when needed.

As login/log out to swap, it takes 7 seconds, and fwiw, most users will stick with the discreet instead of swapping between them. As I've said, the 9400 is an inheritance due to it being the main chipset controller too.

Finally, it's purley a software limitation atm with utilizing both GPU's, which does mean it will be addressed at a later date either by Apple, NV or some 3rd party dev.

Sure, it will be addressed by Apple in their next hardware refresh and they'll charge you half again the price of the notebook now for what amounts to a driver update.

Also, logging out and then back in may take 7 seconds simply for that act, but then consider the time it would take you to wsave all of your current work and then reopen and load all of your data again once you've logged in again. We're talking more like a 30s-1min waste of time that could have been avoided completely if NVIDIA was half as good at writing software as people give them credit for.

Burnout21 · 17th Oct 2008, 11:52

i like the idea of this, nothing worse than having a powerful GPU eatting battery life whilst playing around on internet. I am guessing the 9600GT will be for CUDA related roles rather than gaming considering adobe CS4 isn't that far away.

Ninja_182 · 17th Oct 2008, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout21

i like the idea of this, nothing worse than having a powerful GPU eatting battery life whilst playing around on internet. I am guessing the 9600GT will be for CUDA related roles rather than gaming considering adobe CS4 isn't that far away.

+1 to that, Apple couldnt care less about gaming really. Its all about GPGPU, im hoping a further itteration of Aperture gets that treatment, never was a fan of PS and Lightroom. It would really give the Final Cut guys a hand.

+1 on the option to use a low power GPU as well. SLI use would be near pointless, you shouldnt be gaming on a mac anyway, they just arnt designed for it. Its probably a case of they wanted the higher power one, then lumped in a low power one too to keep battery life reasonable.

DXR_13KE · 18th Oct 2008, 21:07

maybe they should use a weaker card in that design.....

wuyanxu · 18th Oct 2008, 22:43

i thought it's Hybrid-SLi.......

well, with GT200 series so successful at saving power, why can't they have nVidia make a GT200 based laptop chip for them? that'd push up performance and saves power when needed

Anakha · 18th Oct 2008, 23:04

Personally, I think this is a major fail for Apple.

If you're using a heavy GPGPU program (CS4, for example), and you're sitting on an AC adaptor, why should the shaders sitting on the IGP be sitting there idle? Hybrid SLI would enable the system to switch on (and off) the extra power of the IGP (Or of the discrete chip) as and when. Sitting at the desktop? IGP only. In CS4 and doing nothing? IGP only. In CS4, processing an image? Switch on the discrete for as long as the processing takes, then switch it back off again. Drop it in and out of use/power as and when it's needed, rather than having an "most-but-not-all or least" approach.

TBH, I think Hybrid SLI is a great starting point, but imagine it extended out. 120 banks of 4 shader cores, all independently powerable. So, sitting at desktop, all the banks are off. Moving windows around under vista? one bank powered, the rest off. Loading Crysis? One bank on, the rest off, ready to power up within a single frame. Playing Crysis? Power on as many banks as are needed to render the current frame, and powering on more if the estimated load for the next frame is greater.

Like the modern V8 engines do. If you're not standing on the gas pedal, 4 of the cylinders aren't getting any fuel or spark. Same thing here, scaled up.

At least, that's how I'd like to see it done.

mocenigo · 19th Oct 2008, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Infamous Mr D

Considering the amount of money one splashes out on a MacBook Pro, something as well established in the PC market as SLI should be a given. Hell, having to log out and log back in again just to switch GPUs would be a right royal pain in the rectum area. Not really the kind of convenience I would hope for after dropped over a grand on one.

Just another couple of reasons not to buy one, sat next to 'inordinate waste of money' and 'bank balance on life support'.

"GeForce boost" is NOT a given if the two cards are heavily asymmetric. In current SLI implementations, two cards render alternate lines, thus rendering speed is twice that of the slowest GPU. This is how Nvidia implements is, not Apple. In the future Nvidia (or other GPU manufacturers) may split this into 2 lines to 1 or 3 to 1 or whatever, but currently, enabling SLI if the speed differential is large than two would be detrimental to rendering speed.

Now, since the 9600 GT has twice the pipelines of the 9400M, the latter being, furthermore, an integrated chip with shared memory, it is clear that he first is twice as fast than the latter. Therefore, with Nvidia's current implementation of SLI (NOT because of apple), SLI with this configuration would be in fact SLOWER than using just the 9600 GT.

You can have SLI with the integrated 9400M and, say, a 9300 GT or a 9500 GT. But this would be slower than or comparable to the 9600 alone.

This does NOT mean that the second GPU cannot be used in a future version of the OS (for example to do other computations), just not in a SLI version.

Therefore, instead of blasting Apple, document yourself - be informed. I am pissed off, as well, because of the exclusion of FW from the MacBook -- which means, if I upgrade my wife's laptop, it has to be an MBP -- and I will have to use a FW800 to FW400 adapter on my next MBP. But, frankly, there is nothing wrong with the graphics on the MBP.

Roberto

17th Oct 2008, 09:02	#1
CardJoe Player Character bit-tech Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,975	New MacBook Pros have dual-GPU, no SLI http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/10...l-gpu-no-sli/1 Although Apple's latest top-end MacBook Pro laptops feature two GPUs - one for battery use, one for mains use - they are unable to use both at once for a performance boost. __________________ this is joe's non-bit-tech blog

17th Oct 2008, 09:13	#2
UncertainGod Still Alive Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Southampton Posts: 1,144	The lack of Hybrid-SLi isn't a major issue, however having to log out to change the chip your using is for me. __________________ Twitter Tumblr Blog Last.fm "What role do you want to play, I'm just a click away night or day"

17th Oct 2008, 11:21	#7
proxess Victim of AdvancedModernCapitalism Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The town of Love, Funchal Posts: 600	I think it would be smarter to have 2x 9600m GT, while on battery have only one running and on main have both on SLI. __________________ Netbook: Asus eeePC 901; 12Gb SDD; Custom Ubuntu 9.04 Minimal Compiz Standalone. Laptop: Intel Centrino Duo T5500 1.66ghz; 2048mb RAM; ATI Mobility Radeon x2300; Hitachi 120gb iPod Classic 120GB; Maxtor 160GB External; Ubuntu 9.10 x64 and Windows 7 x64.

17th Oct 2008, 11:28	#8
liratheal Just got a great book on tape Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: High Wycombe, UK Posts: 3,623	This is so unsurprising it's un true. Anyone who expected SLI in an Apple laptop (Hell, Apple Product) was, is, and will forever be deluding themselves. Apple see themselves as champions of style and designers, when do those two things need SLI? Never. Want SLI on a Mac? Buy a Mac Pro, install Windows, and use two single 6-pin power cards which don't need the mobo based bridge. Other than that, simply not going to happen. Apples Mission Statement: Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store. __________________ Gigabyte MA790FX, X4 9950 Black Edition, 8gb Geil Black Dragon, 2x4870 512mb, Antec TruePower Quattro 850w I game, Do you?

17th Oct 2008, 11:52	#10
Burnout21 is true bit-techer! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Nott's Posts: 4,859	i like the idea of this, nothing worse than having a powerful GPU eatting battery life whilst playing around on internet. I am guessing the 9600GT will be for CUDA related roles rather than gaming considering adobe CS4 isn't that far away. __________________ DFI P45-T2RS Plus, Q6600, 4GB Reaper HPC, GTX280 & FX3450, X-Fi Xtreme Music, 1570GB Storage

17th Oct 2008, 09:23	#3
p3n Hypermodder Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 736	Don't want to sound too much like a fanboy (my MBP is on order ) but im guessing the performance boost from joining the 9400 and 9600 would be kinda small considering the 9600 is still doing most of the work and the SLI 'overhead' would go so way to negating these gains? Doesn't bother me, i've tried SLI in my PC in the past and with two indentical cards its hard enough to get games to scale to a worthwhile increase/wattage - im guessing there is even less support for SLI in OSX

17th Oct 2008, 09:24	#4
The Infamous Mr D Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 80	Considering the amount of money one splashes out on a MacBook Pro, something as well established in the PC market as SLI should be a given. Hell, having to log out and log back in again just to switch GPUs would be a right royal pain in the rectum area. Not really the kind of convenience I would hope for after dropped over a grand on one. Just another couple of reasons not to buy one, sat next to 'inordinate waste of money' and 'bank balance on life support'.

17th Oct 2008, 09:24	#5
cjoyce1980 Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: UK Posts: 344	whats the point.... bored of apple selling crap to sheep make a really fully functioning product not a chopped down piece of crap and charge an extra Â£500 of it rant over

17th Oct 2008, 11:16	#6
Digital-Prozac What's a Dremel? Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 7	The 9400 is integrated into the mobo, but as well as being a IGP, it also contains the controllers for various bits. it can't be removed, just the same as buying a mobo with an IGP, you still but a seperate GFX card and ignore the IGP. I also believe it's a bit of forward thinking on Apples part with OpenCL and Grandcentral on the horizon in 10.6, when the redundant GPU will be used as a CPU when needed. As login/log out to swap, it takes 7 seconds, and fwiw, most users will stick with the discreet instead of swapping between them. As I've said, the 9400 is an inheritance due to it being the main chipset controller too. Finally, it's purley a software limitation atm with utilizing both GPU's, which does mean it will be addressed at a later date either by Apple, NV or some 3rd party dev.

18th Oct 2008, 21:07	#12
DXR_13KE Madeira's banana is the best!!! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Madeira ; Portugal Posts: 6,473	maybe they should use a weaker card in that design..... __________________ *Renegade X - 0.40 Release!* <---- CLICK!

18th Oct 2008, 22:43	#13
wuyanxu quad fuelled, GTX200 powered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: in a room near Soton Uni. UK Posts: 3,943	i thought it's Hybrid-SLi....... well, with GT200 series so successful at saving power, why can't they have nVidia make a GT200 based laptop chip for them? that'd push up performance and saves power when needed __________________ Death to consolification !!!Core i7 860 @ 4Ghz Cooled by Corsair H50 // Asus P7P55D Deluxe // 8GB of Corsair Dominators @ 1528Mhz 8-8-8-24 // BFG gtx260+ OC2 MaxCore 216SP 896MB // Samsung 64GB SSD // WD Raptor 74GB + Black 1TB + Green 1TB // Corsair Hx620w // Antec p182 // Samsung 24" T240

18th Oct 2008, 23:04	#14
Anakha Supermodder Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Regina, SK, Canada Eh! Posts: 395	Personally, I think this is a major fail for Apple. If you're using a heavy GPGPU program (CS4, for example), and you're sitting on an AC adaptor, why should the shaders sitting on the IGP be sitting there idle? Hybrid SLI would enable the system to switch on (and off) the extra power of the IGP (Or of the discrete chip) as and when. Sitting at the desktop? IGP only. In CS4 and doing nothing? IGP only. In CS4, processing an image? Switch on the discrete for as long as the processing takes, then switch it back off again. Drop it in and out of use/power as and when it's needed, rather than having an "most-but-not-all or least" approach. TBH, I think Hybrid SLI is a great starting point, but imagine it extended out. 120 banks of 4 shader cores, all independently powerable. So, sitting at desktop, all the banks are off. Moving windows around under vista? one bank powered, the rest off. Loading Crysis? One bank on, the rest off, ready to power up within a single frame. Playing Crysis? Power on as many banks as are needed to render the current frame, and powering on more if the estimated load for the next frame is greater. Like the modern V8 engines do. If you're not standing on the gas pedal, 4 of the cylinders aren't getting any fuel or spark. Same thing here, scaled up. At least, that's how I'd like to see it done. __________________ Robert "Anakha" Johnston Going to Canada on Nov 28th! I'm going home!