So, You Call Yourself Indie? - bit-tech.net Forums

Tim S · 22nd Oct 2008, 16:03

http://www.bit-tech.net/columns/2008...urself-indie/1

Cliff Harris is an independent developer who gave up a career at Lionhead to start his own studio and make his own games - but don't they all say that? Cliff has a look at how indie development has evolved and asks if indie studios are truly independent yet.

Arkanrais · 22nd Oct 2008, 18:24

That was rather out of the blue, but I like it.
I hadn't thought of how indie developers actually sold their games before, nor the rest of the crap they have to go through.

Firehed · 23rd Oct 2008, 04:09

This feels like a business opportunity to set up a system where the developers don't get screwed. It would be fairly easy to rig up something that operates on something like 2% + S3 + PayPal fees... devs would keep something like 92-94% and still get all of the ratings and hosting stuff taken care of automatically. It wouldn't be hugely profitable, but maybe some easy passive income. The hardest part would be dealing with serial keys and whatnot.

I couldn't really tell from the article whether this is still an issue, getting worse, getting better, affecting Cliff specifically or indie devs in general, etc., but the profit-taking at 50% is just highway robbery. Maybe that made sense at one point when bandwidth was very expensive and these systems were a huge PITA to set up, but a lot of experienced web programmers could rig up something to deal with payments, reviews/user ratings, hosting and all of that stuff in a weekend or two. Hell, if I could get a couple of devs to sign on board, I'd do it myself.

Of course it's not "truly" independent, but rigging up a sellable web app to do the same thing as compared to one central repository of stuff wouldn't be a whole lot tougher.

Xtrafresh · 23rd Oct 2008, 07:30

firehead: what you are basically proposing is and "indie" download site, one that does not engage in highway robbery or expect huge proceeds. While it may or may not work (i haven't a clue about the industry but what i read here), it's not the point of the article.
What Harris wants is indie devs making a stand for themselves, instead of just accepting what others impose on them.

The fact is that independant spirits are far and few between, and those with business sense even more scarce. This goes not just for devs, but for humans in general. Those that do have agressive business skills quickly professionalise whatever branche they occupy, thereby beating out the creative spirit and spontaneous nature of other occupants.

There's not much you can do about this, as it's basic human nature to not bother when you are getting robbed by a man wearing a suit. What you can do is make sure that you yourself are working the way you'd want to.

Kúsař · 23rd Oct 2008, 09:39

"It just saddens me that all the people with any aggressive business sense work for them and don't run indie games companies to retain some balance" - Well, there's nothing else to add. Cliff wrote nice article...for I always gain a bit more insight into indie development after reading such articles.

Blademrk · 23rd Oct 2008, 10:28

Good article, really makes you think.

PQuiff · 23rd Oct 2008, 16:34

Most interesting. Thank you for an unexpected article. GO GO independent.!

more reading on a topic like this http://forums.introversion.co.uk/int...pic.php?t=1775

Hope you find your golden game.

22nd Oct 2008, 16:03	#1
Tim S Pewlius Caesar bit-tech Staff Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ascot, Berks Posts: 18,021	So, You Call Yourself Indie? http://www.bit-tech.net/columns/2008...urself-indie/1 Cliff Harris is an independent developer who gave up a career at Lionhead to start his own studio and make his own games - but don't they all say that? Cliff has a look at how indie development has evolved and asks if indie studios are truly independent yet. __________________ Tim on Twitter \| Tim's Blog \| Tim's Flickr The bit-tech Blog \| bit-tech on Twitter \| Join the bit-tech & Custom PC folding team (#35947)

22nd Oct 2008, 18:24	#2
Arkanrais Supermodder Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wangamadness, New Zealand Posts: 330	That was rather out of the blue, but I like it. I hadn't thought of how indie developers actually sold their games before, nor the rest of the crap they have to go through. __________________ Visit my DeviantArt page or I'll make you squeal like a piggy and throw a spatula at you. FEAR THE SPATULA! What the hell part of a chicken is the nugget?! goddamn McDonalds and their LIES!

23rd Oct 2008, 04:09	#3
Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An hour north of Boston Posts: 12,576	This feels like a business opportunity to set up a system where the developers don't get screwed. It would be fairly easy to rig up something that operates on something like 2% + S3 + PayPal fees... devs would keep something like 92-94% and still get all of the ratings and hosting stuff taken care of automatically. It wouldn't be hugely profitable, but maybe some easy passive income. The hardest part would be dealing with serial keys and whatnot. I couldn't really tell from the article whether this is still an issue, getting worse, getting better, affecting Cliff specifically or indie devs in general, etc., but the profit-taking at 50% is just highway robbery. Maybe that made sense at one point when bandwidth was very expensive and these systems were a huge PITA to set up, but a lot of experienced web programmers could rig up something to deal with payments, reviews/user ratings, hosting and all of that stuff in a weekend or two. Hell, if I could get a couple of devs to sign on board, I'd do it myself. Of course it's not "truly" independent, but rigging up a sellable web app to do the same thing as compared to one central repository of stuff wouldn't be a whole lot tougher. __________________ hire me @ eric-stern.com - web developer and php ninja pics @ my smugmug :: Twitter @firehed :: blog @ firehed.net 40D\|580EXII\|285HV\|AB800\|70-200f/4LIS\|17-50f/2.8\|150f/2.8Macro\|50f/1.8 MacPro @ 8x2.8GHz, 10GB FBDDR2, 3TB HD :: MBP @ 2x2.2GHz, 4GB DDR2, 320GB HD

23rd Oct 2008, 07:30	#4
Xtrafresh Blame it on the Boogie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nijmegen, Holland Posts: 1,907	firehead: what you are basically proposing is and "indie" download site, one that does not engage in highway robbery or expect huge proceeds. While it may or may not work (i haven't a clue about the industry but what i read here), it's not the point of the article. What Harris wants is indie devs making a stand for themselves, instead of just accepting what others impose on them. The fact is that independant spirits are far and few between, and those with business sense even more scarce. This goes not just for devs, but for humans in general. Those that do have agressive business skills quickly professionalise whatever branche they occupy, thereby beating out the creative spirit and spontaneous nature of other occupants. There's not much you can do about this, as it's basic human nature to not bother when you are getting robbed by a man wearing a suit. What you can do is make sure that you yourself are working the way you'd want to. __________________ AXGS Blog: A fresh look at P55. Fresh Fusion: Unfinished \| FFF: Name change and text update 19-11

23rd Oct 2008, 10:28	#6
Blademrk Why so serious? Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Here Posts: 2,342	Good article, really makes you think. __________________ The Bit-Tech.net X-Box Live! Leaderboard My X-Box Live & X-Fire GamerTag: BladeMRK WII#: 0379 8536 3210 2060 My Flikr albums Twitter

23rd Oct 2008, 09:39	#5
Kúsař regular bit-tech reader Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Brnicko, CZ Posts: 219	"It just saddens me that all the people with any aggressive business sense work for them and don't run indie games companies to retain some balance" - Well, there's nothing else to add. Cliff wrote nice article...for I always gain a bit more insight into indie development after reading such articles.

23rd Oct 2008, 16:34	#7
PQuiff Supermodder Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 345	Most interesting. Thank you for an unexpected article. GO GO independent.! more reading on a topic like this http://forums.introversion.co.uk/int...pic.php?t=1775 Hope you find your golden game.