Ken Levine: "I wish PC gaming was more successful" - bit-tech.net Forums

CardJoe · 4th Dec 2008, 11:52

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/12...e-successful/1

Ken Levine, lead designer on BioShock, wishes PC gaming was a more successful market.

steveo_mcg · 4th Dec 2008, 12:00

Stop hobbling your games with DRM, it wont make your sales any lower and it may even boost them.

OR

stop treating your customers like theifs

[USRF]Obiwan · 4th Dec 2008, 12:14

And look at Valve recent sales figures before you make a complain about less succes..

wharrad · 4th Dec 2008, 12:24

Ironic, given the news post before this...

Paradigm Shifter · 4th Dec 2008, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveo_mcg

Stop hobbling your games with DRM, it wont make your sales any lower and it may even boost them.

OR

stop treating your customers like theifs

Agreed.

Also... Levine should go talk to Valve; they seem to be happy with the status quo.

Silver51 · 4th Dec 2008, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter

Agreed.

Also... Levine should go talk to Valve; they seem to be happy with the status quo.

Valve or Blizzard, they're both good.

Narishma · 4th Dec 2008, 12:50

Someone should show him the sales figures released by Valve yesterday.

Nictron · 4th Dec 2008, 13:05

Consoles are more successful than PC for a few reasons:

1) Ease of accessibility.
2) You use your TV (Most people have one)
3) No Viruses
4) Insert and play
5) Low initial cost
6) You don't need to be very technical
7) People are lazy
8) Things just work on a Console not so on a PC

What I don't understand is how consoles have not made the USB Keyboard and Mouse a valid interface yet.

What is stopping them from doing that?

Paradigm Shifter · 4th Dec 2008, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nictron

Consoles are more successful than PC for a few reasons:

1) Ease of accessibility.
2) You use your TV (Most people have one)
3) No Viruses

Didn't Sony release an antivirus for the PS3 a while ago? And with internet enabled consoles, I wouldn't be surprised if console viruses start appearing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nictron

4) Insert and play
5) Low initial cost
6) You don't need to be very technical
7) People are lazy
8) Things just work on a Console not so on a PC

What I don't understand is how consoles have not made the USB Keyboard and Mouse a valid interface yet.

What is stopping them from doing that?

Too many different possible keyboards and mice I guess, unless they release a specific one, and only that is fully supported officially (others may work, but equally might not). In fact, I don't understand why they don't - particularly Sony, since linux can be installed.

Mentai · 4th Dec 2008, 13:23

USB keyboards and mice can be used on PS3, however there are not many console gamers who like to use a mouse and keyboard when they're lying on the couch.

chiper136 · 4th Dec 2008, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentai

USB keyboards and mice can be used on PS3, however there are not many console gamers who like to use a mouse and keyboard when they're lying on the couch.

Its true. I first played through half life on my PS2 using a mouse and keyboard. It involved a plank of wood on my lap, not the best method but nicer than the ps2 controller.

Cobalt · 4th Dec 2008, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter

Too many different possible keyboards and mice I guess, unless they release a specific one, and only that is fully supported officially (others may work, but equally might not). In fact, I don't understand why they don't - particularly Sony, since linux can be installed.

Most keyboards and mice will work. A few of the "gamer" versions which require specific driver installs would be a problem but most use a standard driver. Even high end mice tend to do all the fancy stuff (on the fly dpi adjustment etc) on board so that isn't an issue.

Paradigm Shifter · 4th Dec 2008, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Most keyboards and mice will work. A few of the "gamer" versions which require specific driver installs would be a problem but most use a standard driver. Even high end mice tend to do all the fancy stuff (on the fly dpi adjustment etc) on board so that isn't an issue.

Yeah, I know that, and you know that... but some of the less technologically inclined individuals out there might try plugging in their Logitech G15 and complaining when the LCD screen and all the extra stuff doesn't work.

UrbanMarine · 4th Dec 2008, 16:51

Consoles are affordable plug n plug PCs. PC gaming was successful before the console boom in the late 90s. Cost and technical knowledge hinder the PCs success in the gaming industry.

Nictron mentioned lazy and I think that's also a big factor on all fronts. Game devs have jumped on the easy train when it comes to programming games. Why program to meet multiple PCs specs, when you can program on a pre-determined hardware setup?

I still prefer my PC over my 360.

Xtrafresh · 4th Dec 2008, 17:16

i dont see why it should be one or the other. Both PCs and consoles have valid use cases and user communities. I really dont understand developers pushing people around from one platform to the next.

pendragon · 4th Dec 2008, 18:11

ironic considering Valve just released hugely impressive sales figures :P

frontline · 4th Dec 2008, 19:27

I wonder if they will be still happy when they are half way through development on a numbr of console titles and then Sony, Nintendo or MS pull the plug on their current hardware range and introduce a new toy that everyone wants games for at launch...

PC's will always be around in some form or another, and while they are, and people are familar with them , there will always be a demand for games (of a wide variety).

echos · 4th Dec 2008, 20:48

They make money of controller, so that why MS won't support mouse and KB

steveo_mcg · 4th Dec 2008, 21:06

They could easily sell a X360 keyboard and mouse if they wanted to its not like ms don't already make their own peripherals for pcs.

thEcat · 4th Dec 2008, 23:55

Not quite on topic but this has been bothering me for a while. One thing I never see considered in these console vs PC threads is the question of where consoles would be without the PC gaming market ?

There is no doubt the continual push for performance would still exist but without the hardcore frames per second junkies would the advancement to ever smaller silicon feature size have been so rapid ? Someone has to pay for the continual R&D costs.

What is the life of a console ? Honestly I don't know off the top of my head, five years maybe six ? This is would represent about five generations of GPU technology, multiplied by the two main manufacturers makes for a whole lot of development while allowing a chance for correction should one set of features or one entire generation fail to make the grade. Once again this is funded by PC gamers.

Imagine for a moment a world without PC gaming. Five years between GPU refreshes does not sound good for ATI, NVIDIA or in the long run the gaming public. Shorter console life time would create compatibility headaches, eat into profits due to increased development costs and lead to resentment from the average customer.

Finally I come to content. The console manufacturers have the final word on what is and is not suitable for their target market. It's easy to say in our current time that they are quite flexible in this regard, but do not think for one moment that the current situation is eternal. It is one thing when a game developer is taken to task by the moral out cries and general media, it is another thing entirely when an international cooperation is subject to their wrath.

Just something I sometimes ponder. In spite of Microsoft's efforts the PC is an open platform and has always been a hot bed of technical innovation. I wish the industry doom sayers would look further than their short term profits as I think the death of PC gaming would have far reaching consequences for us all.

4th Dec 2008, 11:52	#1
CardJoe Player Character bit-tech Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,965	Ken Levine: "I wish PC gaming was more successful" http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/12...e-successful/1 Ken Levine, lead designer on BioShock, wishes PC gaming was a more successful market. __________________ this is joe's non-bit-tech blog

4th Dec 2008, 12:00	#2
steveo_mcg What owl? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,981	Stop hobbling your games with DRM, it wont make your sales any lower and it may even boost them. OR stop treating your customers like theifs __________________ No boom today, boom tomorrow... there's always a boom tomorrow.

4th Dec 2008, 12:14	#3
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,218	And look at Valve recent sales figures before you make a complain about less succes.. __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

4th Dec 2008, 12:24	#4
wharrad Hypermodder Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burford, Oxfordshire Posts: 866	Ironic, given the news post before this... __________________ Jimmy Carr - "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission"

4th Dec 2008, 16:51	#14
UrbanMarine Government Prostitute Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,011	Consoles are affordable plug n plug PCs. PC gaming was successful before the console boom in the late 90s. Cost and technical knowledge hinder the PCs success in the gaming industry. Nictron mentioned lazy and I think that's also a big factor on all fronts. Game devs have jumped on the easy train when it comes to programming games. Why program to meet multiple PCs specs, when you can program on a pre-determined hardware setup? I still prefer my PC over my 360. __________________ RIP: 3DRealms & Duke Nukem Last edited by UrbanMarine; 4th Dec 2008 at 16:57.

4th Dec 2008, 12:50	#7
Narishma Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 88	Someone should show him the sales figures released by Valve yesterday.

4th Dec 2008, 13:05	#8
Nictron Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 98	Consoles are more successful than PC for a few reasons: 1) Ease of accessibility. 2) You use your TV (Most people have one) 3) No Viruses 4) Insert and play 5) Low initial cost 6) You don't need to be very technical 7) People are lazy 8) Things just work on a Console not so on a PC What I don't understand is how consoles have not made the USB Keyboard and Mouse a valid interface yet. What is stopping them from doing that?

4th Dec 2008, 13:23	#10
Mentai Supermodder Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 492	USB keyboards and mice can be used on PS3, however there are not many console gamers who like to use a mouse and keyboard when they're lying on the couch.

4th Dec 2008, 17:16	#15
Xtrafresh Blame it on the Boogie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nijmegen, Holland Posts: 1,910	i dont see why it should be one or the other. Both PCs and consoles have valid use cases and user communities. I really dont understand developers pushing people around from one platform to the next. __________________ AXGS Blog: A fresh look at P55. Fresh Fusion: Unfinished \| FFF: Name change and text update 19-11

4th Dec 2008, 18:11	#16
pendragon I pickle they Join Date: May 2004 Location: Massachusetts,usa Posts: 631	ironic considering Valve just released hugely impressive sales figures :P __________________ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GCS d-@ s-:>: a- C++$ UL---@ P++>+++++$ L+ E----@ W+++ N o? K? w++>+++++ O---@ M-- V? PS--() PE+@ Y? PGP-@ t+(+++) 5(+)@ X@ R+(++) tv@ b++ DI@ D++ G e++>+++++ h! r(%) y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

4th Dec 2008, 19:27	#17
frontline Multimodder Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 209	I wonder if they will be still happy when they are half way through development on a numbr of console titles and then Sony, Nintendo or MS pull the plug on their current hardware range and introduce a new toy that everyone wants games for at launch... PC's will always be around in some form or another, and while they are, and people are familar with them , there will always be a demand for games (of a wide variety). __________________ Phenom II X4 955 @ 3.2ghz \| Asus Crosshair III Formula \| Coolermaster V8 CPU Cooler \|4Gb Corsair Dominator DDR3 at 1333mhz \| Sapphire Radeon 5870 \| Crucial M225 128Gb SSD \| Samsung SyncMaster 226BW

4th Dec 2008, 20:48	#18
echos What's a Dremel? Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4	They make money of controller, so that why MS won't support mouse and KB

4th Dec 2008, 21:06	#19
steveo_mcg What owl? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 3,981	They could easily sell a X360 keyboard and mouse if they wanted to its not like ms don't already make their own peripherals for pcs. __________________ No boom today, boom tomorrow... there's always a boom tomorrow.

4th Dec 2008, 23:55	#20
thEcat 69 Dude!! Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 69	Not quite on topic but this has been bothering me for a while. One thing I never see considered in these console vs PC threads is the question of where consoles would be without the PC gaming market ? There is no doubt the continual push for performance would still exist but without the hardcore frames per second junkies would the advancement to ever smaller silicon feature size have been so rapid ? Someone has to pay for the continual R&D costs. What is the life of a console ? Honestly I don't know off the top of my head, five years maybe six ? This is would represent about five generations of GPU technology, multiplied by the two main manufacturers makes for a whole lot of development while allowing a chance for correction should one set of features or one entire generation fail to make the grade. Once again this is funded by PC gamers. Imagine for a moment a world without PC gaming. Five years between GPU refreshes does not sound good for ATI, NVIDIA or in the long run the gaming public. Shorter console life time would create compatibility headaches, eat into profits due to increased development costs and lead to resentment from the average customer. Finally I come to content. The console manufacturers have the final word on what is and is not suitable for their target market. It's easy to say in our current time that they are quite flexible in this regard, but do not think for one moment that the current situation is eternal. It is one thing when a game developer is taken to task by the moral out cries and general media, it is another thing entirely when an international cooperation is subject to their wrath. Just something I sometimes ponder. In spite of Microsoft's efforts the PC is an open platform and has always been a hot bed of technical innovation. I wish the industry doom sayers would look further than their short term profits as I think the death of PC gaming would have far reaching consequences for us all.