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Old 17th Apr 2009, 14:43   #21
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The resellers should make a new construction that lowers the price every month after its released. People who want to play it the day its released pay more then a person that is paying for it 7 months after its released.

Most people pirate because:
1) They want to try the game but not be restricted to one level
2) Want to play but cant pay for it
3) Just want to have it, because they want to have everything to fill their 8TB disk array. (aka a collector)
4) Why pay if they let you get it for free.


Its very simple:
I want a Ferrari F40, i really do. But the only way I can get it is to steal it because it is going to take me 20 years to get one the honest way. But to steal a Ferrari you need to know and do a lot of stuff. It is very hard to steal a Ferrari and once I have stolen it, its very hard to get away with it unseen. Everybody in my street knows I cant afford a Ferrari. I can not drive onto the street because off insurance and registrations. If a cop checks the plates he will immediately know its stolen.

Basically its impossible to think about stealing because it is very hard to steal a Ferrari and get away with it. A game you just download, start it up and play its very easy and anyone can do it with ease. Its purely a moral "blockade" not to do it.

Another new approach to do it is to pay for development cost before or during the game development, this way people get involved with the process and in the end play their own funded game.

Another new approach is a so called 'group-buy' How more people sign up for a group-buy how higher the discount of the item.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 14:45   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zut View Post
OH! So that makes it OK does it?
No it doesn't, but it does put historical perspective on the "piracy = death of gaming" viewpoint that some seem to believe in, which parallels the "Home taping is killing music" campaign that was run 20 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Zut View Post
I dare say murder has been around for quite a long time too, but that doesn't mean its OK for me to stab you in the face.
Equating piracy (as in "unauthorised duplication") to theft is a common mistake - but trying to equate it to murder is truly taking foolishness to an extreme, even for a straw man argument.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 14:46   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zut View Post
There is no excuse for piracy. It doesn't matter what you CAN do or how you try to rationalise it... if you didn't pay for a game then you don't get to play it. End of.
Well, if some companies would allow PayPal donations, I'd happily donate the cost of the game I downloaded off usenet which had no DRM in it. Or when it's released in a region weeks ahead of mine.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 14:59   #24
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Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan View Post
The resellers should make a new construction that lowers the price every month after its released. People who want to play it the day its released pay more then a person that is paying for it 7 months after its released.
This has been the case for the past decade - have you not ever seen budget-label games? Indeed, even full versions often drop dramatically in price (25% or more) after a couple of months.
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Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan View Post
Most people pirate because:
1) They want to try the game but not be restricted to one level
2) Want to play but cant pay for it
3) Just want to have it, because they want to have everything to fill their 8TB disk array. (aka a collector)
4) Why pay if they let you get it for free.
I buy all my games so can't claim to speak for a single pirate let alone the majority, but I would suggest the following extra reasons:
  • Unable to buy (game not released in their region, no access to a credit card, unable to afford);
  • Objection to DRM (why pay for a product that adds inconvenience?);
  • Faster access (where downloading is quicker than visiting a local store);
  • Preview before purchase.
One key factor that most seem to be missing is the age of those making copies. Many young (<18 years) users don't have the money to match their interest in games and also don't appreciate fully the consequences of their actions. When they reach maturity and start earning an income, this behaviour will very likely change.

So in many cases, today's "pirate" will become tomorrow's consumer.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 15:04   #25
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Originally Posted by mmorgue View Post
Well, if some companies would allow PayPal donations, I'd happily donate the cost of the game I downloaded off usenet which had no DRM in it.
Take a look at GOG.com (Good Old Games) then - completely DRM-free downloads and they accept both credit cards and Paypal.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 16:34   #26
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So what about censored games? I know this won't affect *most* of you, but here in Germany it's getting really really bad. Bought two games last month, Bioshock and Doom3, and guess what: Both suck. Horribly. Doom is minus about all blood, but sill manageable. Bioshock in fact is so bad I couldn't stand it at all. They even cut down on the sound. The whole Bioshock experience is gone, apparently it's to scary for some twelve year old... Yeah guess what, it's rated Mature for a reason.

I haven't yet, (I would, if I'd know how to) but would me pirating the US version mean that I steal them?
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 16:39   #27
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Originally Posted by AstralWanderer View Post
So in many cases, today's "pirate" will become tomorrow's consumer.
so in screwing around with today's "pirates" you will be screwing around with tomorrow's consumers....
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 16:43   #28
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Originally Posted by Aterius Gmork View Post
So what about censored games? I know this won't affect *most* of you, but here in Germany it's getting really really bad. Bought two games last month, Bioshock and Doom3, and guess what: Both suck. Horribly. Doom is minus about all blood, but sill manageable. Bioshock in fact is so bad I couldn't stand it at all. They even cut down on the sound. The whole Bioshock experience is gone, apparently it's to scary for some twelve year old... Yeah guess what, it's rated Mature for a reason.

I haven't yet, (I would, if I'd know how to) but would me pirating the US version mean that I steal them?
Maybe not, but you'd be importing goods illegally, circumventing rating laws, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer View Post
Take a look at GOG.com (Good Old Games) then - completely DRM-free downloads and they accept both credit cards and Paypal.
GOG is awesome, it's just a shame they don't have some more/better games.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 16:46   #29
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So what would you suggest doing, Joe? I've never missed the blood in games, but it's getting ridiculous.

EDIT: Well, I guess, I'll have to put up with it. Or move.

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Old 17th Apr 2009, 16:57   #30
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Preview Before Purchase is what half of the people I does know in the world not lying or anything but 1 person of 2 i know does download MOVIE & Games : Movie they keep it for ever no preview Game as a huge Cons For P2P IT Because even i did when i was young have some free game people told me load Kazza / Morpheus Type Game : Run this blah blah blah : and they even gave me game iso.files via msn transfer (took 1 day)

There is a Cons in P2p Game : you can't play online in 90% of the case Because the DRM For Online Server Require a Real Cd-key thus Prevent you to play on there Server that cost nothing more then pay 49.99$/59.99$ for there cd-key But for single play it Like a movie ? how many people copy movie ? about 50% of the population Burn DVD movie Rent at Video club

why pay 20$ when you can have it for 5$ that what all say my cousin / friend and some are even more cheap why Rent the movie ? when Torrent + 1$ For A DVD and Burn it They even Would Give me a Copy of that DVD if i asked them for no cost but i don't ask them such i'm plainy okay with rent movie / console game / buy my game :

I just say some company really have a huge issue with piracy when it only solo Gameplay Because any single play DRM can be Hacked (The sims 2 ect.) All people i know who posses the Sims 2 + All is expansion haven't even bough the first the sims 2
So they ende dup having over 250$ OF the sims 2 Product (If you count all Expansion at Retail cost + STuFF PACK)

But Try to get a FAKE CD-key on BAttle.net ? FOR DIABLO 2 ? For Warcraft 3 ? On Battle.net Try to Log in !? You won't ! ERROR invalid ! the chance you get one that work is 1 of 10 Billion Key Even with Generator for Online gameplay : It why my Friend said Screw Wc3 it not FREE ! : I

if The game DemiGod Want Hacker-free Experiance (increase the CD-KEY Protection LEVEL) Without DRM that damage ur System By add Example an Activation Code After CD-key = Two Key Activation (Sacred II who use IT As a Deactivation key)
But if you don't use The Online Activation key + The Retail CD-KEY on the Book You won't be able to play online

The same Should be For Demigod it simple isn't it ? : If you make the online Exclusive to you'r buyer you make money in all scenario because people will envy to play together in group with there Friend so they will buy it
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 17:07   #31
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Originally Posted by CardJoe View Post
Maybe not, but you'd be importing goods illegally, circumventing rating laws, etc.
This will depend on jurisdiction. As far as the UK goes, importing unrated content for personal use is OK - you will only breach the law (section 88 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, which updates the Video Recordings Act 1984 which itself gave video/game ratings legal force) if you supply, or intend to supply, them to anyone else (except for gifts and exempted works).

In Germany, different laws will apply and my German isn't up to providing any useful advice other than to check for yourself.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 17:30   #32
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If they wanted more customers they should have advertised the game a bit more, as I heard almost nothing about it until it was near launch/already out.

It wouldn't change the amount pirates, but pirates aren't customers and wouldn't have bought it anyway, so no lost sales there.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 18:59   #33
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You've never stopped to consider what you would do when (and it is almost certainly going to be when) Valve impose an annual (or even monthly) fee to keep Steam accounts open?
What is there to think about? If Valve decide to charge for the service, either I will pay for it, depending on the price, or I will stop using it, and use someone else. No one else around to offer a similar service? Then I keep my money and use it on something else entirley. I certainly won't be pirating games NOW for something that might happen in the future.

Personally I would probably pay it.

Quote:
This possibility isn't unique to Steam - any online activation system could make the same change - but systems that tie large amounts of software to a single account have a far greater lever over their users.Piracy has been a "huge problem" ever since the dawn of home computing yet the games industry has survived and grown. The only thing that is different now is that developers have a semi-reliable means to measure the scale of it.
Could, maybe, might. A lot of assumptions in there. If Valve charge, someone else will do it cheaper or free, then people will stop using Steam. I doubt they will charge anything, they will probably end up more like Apple and the music industry instead.

Piracy has always been a problem, ever since the days of the ZX Spectrum and tape to tape copying. The change now is instead of it being a couple of kids in the schoolyard swapping tapes, it is now a global problem involving millions. Devs measure it easier now, but also they are close to finding ways - should they have the willpower to utilise it - of making life much more difficult to pirate. Steam is just the beginning.

The only reason the gaming industry still grows is because of people like me willing to pay for the games, and in fact paying more than we should be in order to compensate for all the theiving pirates out there.

I for sure have noticed in the PC market a huge downturn in the PC games sections in stores over the last few years, where there was a whole wall of games just for the PC now your lucky to see a top 20 section and a rack of budget titles. The amount of good titles being released is also down. Piracy is certainly a contributing factor to this sad state of affairs.

It is mostly consoles now. Why bother spending a ton of money on a PC game when you can do the same on a console and get far less piracy - it is not so easy to do.

The PC games market is much more about online games now, in particular the MMO, where you generally have to pay a monthly fee. The devs know that even if you pirate the game your still going to be paying monthly for it, so the monthly cost goes up as well to get that loss back.

Very sad to see.

So bring on Steam, Steam2, or any other incarnation of it, if it helps cut down on piracy, and the ease with which Noddy Nobrain and his pal BigEars, with vapour in between them, can continue to steal with ease at the click of a button.

The quicker it happens the better. Those who pay for games and support the industry instead of stealing from it have nothing to be concerned about.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 19:49   #34
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oh I completely forgot about this game lol thanks BT for reminding me, I need to go a pirate it now =p j/k so 5 to 1 huh, I guess price could play a role in this and well the economy as well.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 21:24   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DraigUK


The PC games market is much more about online games now, in particular the MMO, where you generally have to pay a monthly fee. The devs know that even if you pirate the game your still going to be paying monthly for it, so the monthly cost goes up as well to get that loss back.
Just wanted to point out that monthly fees for MMO's have nothing to do with piracy, its for maintenence and ongoing content upgrades. Yeah piracy is bad but you're seriously overstating it.
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Old 17th Apr 2009, 23:51   #36
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Games not worth the purchase imo.
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Old 18th Apr 2009, 09:09   #37
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So in many cases, today's "pirate" will become tomorrow's consumer.
Very Nice...and true in my case

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Originally Posted by Aterius Gmork View Post
So what about censored games? I know this won't affect *most* of you, but here in Germany it's getting really really bad. Bought two games last month, Bioshock and Doom3, and guess what: Both suck.
Correct. I had to patch the nuts of my copy of Fallout3 to get the "normal" blood back...turning it into a nonlegal copy in the process thank you.

Hmmm, have you found a way to get Bioshock back to it's "normal" gameplay? I have an original wrapped german copy on my desk, but if it's crippled i'll get it from the .net instead.
I'm over 30, I don't mind getting scared
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Old 18th Apr 2009, 09:40   #38
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Nope I didn't. There IS a working bloodpatch apparently, but it's almost 2GB. The game is 2 years old, nobody is hosting or seeding the patch anymore.

I didn't even buy Fallout (or pirate it, I don't pirate), the censoring, WLFG etc, it's just not worth the hassle.
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Old 18th Apr 2009, 12:10   #39
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valve will _never_ charge for steam accounts because their current model is such a cash cow. They're providing a publishing service for game developers,what do you think would happen if they started charging their consumer base? Do you think eBay would ever start charging people to have an account?
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Old 18th Apr 2009, 15:20   #40
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Stardock have made some good articles in the past about the DRM / Piracy debate (and i agree with alot of it).

It would be interesting if ou could get some comment from them about whats gone wrong here and how its affected thier opinions.
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