If it isn’t Google, it isn’t search - bit-tech.net Forums

Sifter3000 · 24th Jun 2009, 12:22

http://www.bit-tech.net/blog/2009/06...-isn-t-search/

Bauul · 24th Jun 2009, 12:49

On my current HSDPA 3G connection, Google takes (very approximately) just under a second to load and allow me to search.

Bing was pushing seven seconds. Even with the website in my local cache, it was still pushing two seconds plus. For a website that's all about finding content, not providing it, this extra wait is just unnaccaptable. When driving to a resteraunt, would you take the 1 mile road or the 7 mile road? Regardless of how pretty the route might be, with time differences like that Bing just isn't a contender.

wuyanxu · 24th Jun 2009, 12:56

without keyword highlighting on the text below the link, any search engine is a fail.

Narishma · 24th Jun 2009, 13:05

I think Bing is in the situation for search engines that Linux for example is in for operating systems. Their competitor is good enough and people don't see any reason to change and learn a new thing while what they are used to works well enough. So unless it becomes superior to Google by an order of magnitude it won't go anywhere. If it's just as good as Google or just a bit better people won't bother with it.

Paradigm Shifter · 24th Jun 2009, 13:25

Google has the mindshare of even people who aren't tech geeks... Bing will have to crowbar itself into the mind of the general populous if it wants to get anywhere.

Of course, spending 10% of MS' operating income could flood everywhere with ads...

Perforated · 24th Jun 2009, 13:32

It strikes me that Bing is in a weak position in relation to Google as other browsers are to IE, and without a clear superiority. IF it manages to improve to the point of being superior to Google, it has a shot - much like Firefox has against IE.

It kinda entertains me, though I'm sure the comparison is imperfect, that if the technique works then Firefox may have a similar majority over IE by the time Bing is a contender for Google, and MS will be complaining that Firefox bundling Google as the default search provider is unfair...

This isn't strictly on topic, I just felt like sharing.

Back on topic, I'm with the 'Google's not broken' brigade. I don't see how they're going to produce a direct competitor - to make it preferable to Google, they'll surely have to make it almost unrecognisably different? I'm usually proven wrong.
Exemplar: I had an Ericsson T29s once. It was relatively small, attractive, jeans-pocket slim, made very clear calls and had predictive text. Other than making phones smaller, it was unclear (to me, then) quite where mobile phones would go from there - now, getting on for a decade later, the answer is bigger, colour screens and an entirely different feature set. My phone now browses the internet and takes photos - but call quality is effectively the same. I call, people (usually) answer, I can understand them (unless I'm calling the bank).

Beating Google will take lateral thinking - 'if you came here for a search engine, you might also like...', not just 'if you want to search, you came to the right place!'
For me, the biggest searching advancement has been Fx's inline search bar, being able to select wholly different engines (Google, Wiki, IMDB, maps, images, whatever) before you even load the site. That's a browser trick, not a search engine trick, though - and almost makes the search homepages irrelevant. If that becomes the normal way of searching for the general populace, it's going to be even harder to get accross that 'hook' feature as people won't even be entering search engine URLs any more.

Paradigm Shifter · 24th Jun 2009, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perforated

My phone now browses the internet and takes photos - but call quality is effectively the same. I call, people (usually) answer, I can understand them (unless I'm calling the bank).

True and funny. +rep.

RTT · 24th Jun 2009, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Article

If you do want to give your thoughts on search, we’re running a survey and you can win an Xbox 360 Elite.

Did anyone proof read that survey? 'Frustration' was not spelt correctly once, plus numerous other mistakes

Back on topic, I'd bet a good amount that Bing will not increase market or mindshare in the next 12 months above what it already occupies.

robyholmes · 24th Jun 2009, 14:11

WHy don't they put money in to the next big internet thing, goggle has the search engine, get over it Microsoft!

Claave · 24th Jun 2009, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perforated

It strikes me that Bing is in a weak position in relation to Google as other browsers are to IE, and without a clear superiority. IF it manages to improve to the point of being superior to Google, it has a shot - much like Firefox has against IE.

Any guesses what IE's default search-bar search engine is as of now? And how many people even know (let alone care) how to change that? If we guess that 80% of IE users are fairly IT-illiterate, and that IE has about 75% browser market share, Bing is going to win by default (aka, ignorance).

I'd be worried if I was Google - we could see a big shift to Bing very quickly, and for purely arbitrary reasons, rather than quality or service. I'd suggest that it's Google that needs to up its game and provide something more compelling than the IE default search...

TGImages · 24th Jun 2009, 14:24

Me too.

I have to agree with most of the comments. Google works. Period. Why change? Unless Bing offers me something revolutionary there isn't any motiviation to change. I know how to structure requests in Google (+ and - and such) that it is very rare I don't get what I want on the first page and usually in the first few results. I can't see how Bing can improve on that.

The Wolfram search offers an interesting alternative but only for very specific purposes/questions. I can see it as a niche alternative but again Google just plain works.

MS with Bing or anyone else has a better shot at the market due to Google screwing up than they do with their product regardless of how good it is. I guess you could phrase it as "It's Google's market to lose." If they don't then they will stay in their position.

MS did the same with IE... it was their market to lose and by not following standards and such they gave away market share to the compeititors.

Sifter3000 · 24th Jun 2009, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perforated

Exemplar: I had an Ericsson T29s once. It was relatively small, attractive, jeans-pocket slim, made very clear calls and had predictive text. Other than making phones smaller, it was unclear (to me, then) quite where mobile phones would go from there - now, getting on for a decade later, the answer is bigger, colour screens and an entirely different feature set. My phone now browses the internet and takes photos - but call quality is effectively the same. I call, people (usually) answer, I can understand them (unless I'm calling the bank).

Yes, absolutely spot on - that's what I was referring to when talking about social search. Google's so successful that any attempt to beat it will have to be brand new, not just a better Google.

GoodBytes · 24th Jun 2009, 15:35

Ahhh man, after answer the whole survey it ended being UK only.
Thanks a lot bit-tech

Anyway, I had to cancel the survey.

delriogw · 24th Jun 2009, 15:43

is it just me or is the name 'bing' just seeming completely stupid.

i'm sure many of us thought that google was a funny sounding word when it first arrived (for those of us that remember that far back ! lol) but in my head i could make it make sense by breaking it down into go-ogle, as in go look. even though that's not how it's said, it makes the word fit the context.

bing just brings to mind that silly noise effect they add to the smile that glints at you.

xaser04 · 24th Jun 2009, 16:14

The ironic thing I see is that if someone wants to find out about 'bing' they will google it.....

oasked · 24th Jun 2009, 16:30

Google needs competition to stay healthy, this is some competition (although not that much).

For the most part it works pretty well, but it is essentially a Google clone.

minimad127 · 24th Jun 2009, 16:40

do you think they are trying to go down the naming route brought to us by Friends, i cant remember the episode but i can just remember the bit in it where Joey thought Chandlers answering machine message was just Chandler 'Bing'

anyways other than adding Bing as the default search engine bundled with IE i really cant see it taking off as people in general use what they are used to, its the main reason i have IE and Firefox on my home computer since i want to have a better program and experience (Firefox) but the kids and wife want to use what they know (IE)

storm20200 · 24th Jun 2009, 17:03

I use google because of it's simplicity, I go on google, I'm greeted by their logo and a search bar.....That's all I want, not a picture of 2 beavers. Also it's a microsoft product so there's another reason not to use it XD but seriously msn and live search were both fail so if they do improve on it then it might become popular.

Sifter3000 · 24th Jun 2009, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by storm20200

That's all I want, not a picture of 2 beavers.

There's *definitely* a pr0n joke in there somewhere...

alpaca · 24th Jun 2009, 18:42

in firefox, i have a link to wikipedia, wolframalpha(love the site for simple, accurate and up to date conversion (how much are x pounds in euro, how much cm are y inches,... and as an online calculator)),interglot(translator) and the google searchthingie. i fail to see why bing should accompany them. or replace any of them.

24th Jun 2009, 12:22	#1
Sifter3000 Editor @ CPC bit-tech Staff Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The South Sea Bubble Posts: 763	If it isn’t Google, it isn’t search http://www.bit-tech.net/blog/2009/06...-isn-t-search/ __________________ Alex Watson. CPC and bit-tech. My weblog is The Wired Jester. Photos on Flickr.

24th Jun 2009, 12:49	#2
Bauul Sir Bongaminge Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Godalming, near Guildford Posts: 1,553	On my current HSDPA 3G connection, Google takes (very approximately) just under a second to load and allow me to search. Bing was pushing seven seconds. Even with the website in my local cache, it was still pushing two seconds plus. For a website that's all about finding content, not providing it, this extra wait is just unnaccaptable. When driving to a resteraunt, would you take the 1 mile road or the 7 mile road? Regardless of how pretty the route might be, with time differences like that Bing just isn't a contender. __________________ Pentium 4 CPU 3.4 Ghz \| 1Gb + 2x512Mb Corsair DDR2 667 Mhz Sapphire Radeon HD 4770 512Mb\| WD Raptor 36Gb, Seagate 300Gb \| Asus P5LD2 SE Ibanez RG 470 Japanese Edition \| 1991 Japanese Lo-TRS Tremolo \| V7 S1 Custom V8 HSH Pickups

24th Jun 2009, 12:56	#3
wuyanxu quad fuelled, GTX200 powered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: in a room near Soton Uni. UK Posts: 3,943	without keyword highlighting on the text below the link, any search engine is a fail. __________________ Death to consolification !!!Core i7 860 @ 4Ghz Cooled by Corsair H50 // Asus P7P55D Deluxe // 8GB of Corsair Dominators @ 1528Mhz 8-8-8-24 // BFG gtx260+ OC2 MaxCore 216SP 896MB // Samsung 64GB SSD // WD Raptor 74GB + Black 1TB + Green 1TB // Corsair Hx620w // Antec p182 // Samsung 24" T240

24th Jun 2009, 13:25	#5
Paradigm Shifter Lethargic Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,213	Google has the mindshare of even people who aren't tech geeks... Bing will have to crowbar itself into the mind of the general populous if it wants to get anywhere. Of course, spending 10% of MS' operating income could flood everywhere with ads... __________________ Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.8GHz \| 6GB Corsair 1600MHz \| Gigabyte EX58-UD5 \| XFX 4870X2 2GB \| 4TB \| WUXGA

24th Jun 2009, 15:35	#13
GoodBytes mother into a board?! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada, Montreal Posts: 3,479	Ahhh man, after answer the whole survey it ended being UK only. Thanks a lot bit-tech Anyway, I had to cancel the survey. __________________ AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ S939 \| 3GB of Corsair/Kingston (mix) RAM @ 400Mhz 3-3-3-8-2T \| ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe \| Geforce 260 GTX \| X-Fi XtreamMusic \| Western Digital 250GB SATA-II 16MB of Buffer \| Corsair HX620W \| Antec SOLO case \| Monitor: 24inch Dell U2410 \| Win 7 64-bit Go for Pro!

24th Jun 2009, 13:05	#4
Narishma Multimodder Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 88	I think Bing is in the situation for search engines that Linux for example is in for operating systems. Their competitor is good enough and people don't see any reason to change and learn a new thing while what they are used to works well enough. So unless it becomes superior to Google by an order of magnitude it won't go anywhere. If it's just as good as Google or just a bit better people won't bother with it.

24th Jun 2009, 13:32	#6
Perforated Modder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 65	It strikes me that Bing is in a weak position in relation to Google as other browsers are to IE, and without a clear superiority. IF it manages to improve to the point of being superior to Google, it has a shot - much like Firefox has against IE. It kinda entertains me, though I'm sure the comparison is imperfect, that if the technique works then Firefox may have a similar majority over IE by the time Bing is a contender for Google, and MS will be complaining that Firefox bundling Google as the default search provider is unfair... This isn't strictly on topic, I just felt like sharing. Back on topic, I'm with the 'Google's not broken' brigade. I don't see how they're going to produce a direct competitor - to make it preferable to Google, they'll surely have to make it almost unrecognisably different? I'm usually proven wrong. Exemplar: I had an Ericsson T29s once. It was relatively small, attractive, jeans-pocket slim, made very clear calls and had predictive text. Other than making phones smaller, it was unclear (to me, then) quite where mobile phones would go from there - now, getting on for a decade later, the answer is bigger, colour screens and an entirely different feature set. My phone now browses the internet and takes photos - but call quality is effectively the same. I call, people (usually) answer, I can understand them (unless I'm calling the bank). Beating Google will take lateral thinking - 'if you came here for a search engine, you might also like...', not just 'if you want to search, you came to the right place!' For me, the biggest searching advancement has been Fx's inline search bar, being able to select wholly different engines (Google, Wiki, IMDB, maps, images, whatever) before you even load the site. That's a browser trick, not a search engine trick, though - and almost makes the search homepages irrelevant. If that becomes the normal way of searching for the general populace, it's going to be even harder to get accross that 'hook' feature as people won't even be entering search engine URLs any more.

24th Jun 2009, 14:11	#9
robyholmes I'm under your desk... Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 67	WHy don't they put money in to the next big internet thing, goggle has the search engine, get over it Microsoft!

24th Jun 2009, 14:24	#11
TGImages Grandpa Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Illinois, US Posts: 160	Me too. I have to agree with most of the comments. Google works. Period. Why change? Unless Bing offers me something revolutionary there isn't any motiviation to change. I know how to structure requests in Google (+ and - and such) that it is very rare I don't get what I want on the first page and usually in the first few results. I can't see how Bing can improve on that. The Wolfram search offers an interesting alternative but only for very specific purposes/questions. I can see it as a niche alternative but again Google just plain works. MS with Bing or anyone else has a better shot at the market due to Google screwing up than they do with their product regardless of how good it is. I guess you could phrase it as "It's Google's market to lose." If they don't then they will stay in their position. MS did the same with IE... it was their market to lose and by not following standards and such they gave away market share to the compeititors.

24th Jun 2009, 15:43	#14
delriogw Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 57	is it just me or is the name 'bing' just seeming completely stupid. i'm sure many of us thought that google was a funny sounding word when it first arrived (for those of us that remember that far back ! lol) but in my head i could make it make sense by breaking it down into go-ogle, as in go look. even though that's not how it's said, it makes the word fit the context. bing just brings to mind that silly noise effect they add to the smile that glints at you.

24th Jun 2009, 16:14	#15
xaser04 Multimodder Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 148	The ironic thing I see is that if someone wants to find out about 'bing' they will google it..... __________________ Scientology - A Religion for those who think Star Trek is a documentary

24th Jun 2009, 16:30	#16
oasked Stuck in the Mud Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bromley, Kent Posts: 2,552	Google needs competition to stay healthy, this is some competition (although not that much). For the most part it works pretty well, but it is essentially a Google clone. __________________ Intel i7 920 @ Stock \| 6GB Corsair DDR3\| Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 WD640 AALS \| POV 8800GT \| Lian-Li PC65 \| Enermax 600W SLI \| Dell 2408WFP

24th Jun 2009, 16:40	#17
minimad127 CPC Refugee Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Near Canterbury Posts: 39	do you think they are trying to go down the naming route brought to us by Friends, i cant remember the episode but i can just remember the bit in it where Joey thought Chandlers answering machine message was just Chandler 'Bing' anyways other than adding Bing as the default search engine bundled with IE i really cant see it taking off as people in general use what they are used to, its the main reason i have IE and Firefox on my home computer since i want to have a better program and experience (Firefox) but the kids and wife want to use what they know (IE)

24th Jun 2009, 18:42	#20
alpaca llama eats dremel Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brussel/Leuven Posts: 275	in firefox, i have a link to wikipedia, wolframalpha(love the site for simple, accurate and up to date conversion (how much are x pounds in euro, how much cm are y inches,... and as an online calculator)),interglot(translator) and the google searchthingie. i fail to see why bing should accompany them. or replace any of them. __________________ my English may not be as good as I think it is...