MSI GTX 285 HydroGen OC Review - bit-tech.net Forums

Lizard · 9th Jul 2009, 10:53

Sporting a Watercool Heatkiller GPU-X² full cover waterblock, MSI's GTX 285 HydroGen looks stunning. However we're more interested in whether it can keep Nvidia's fastest single core GPU cool.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/gra...en-oc-review/1

[USRF]Obiwan · 9th Jul 2009, 12:31

What i see:

All of the Game benches are won by the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB
The only Application bench (folding at home) is won by Nvidia cards
And in the power consumption part the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB is left out of it. (probably because it has higher power usage then anything else)

IMHO you should have left out the ATI Dualcore card completely, now people will get the wrong idea. Without it Nvidia wins.
Infact you should have left out all the ATI card and other Nvidia cards and only compare the Non watercooled GTX285 to the MSI watercooled GTX285.

Baz · 9th Jul 2009, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by [USRF

Obiwan]What i see:

All of the Game benches are won by the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB
The only Application bench (folding at home) is won by Nvidia cards
And in the power consumption part the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB is left out of it. (probably because it has higher power usage then anything else)

IMHO you should have left out the ATI Dualcore card completely, now people will get the wrong idea. Without it Nvidia wins.
Infact you should have left out all the ATI card and other Nvidia cards and only compare the Non watercooled GTX285 to the MSI watercooled GTX285.

If we didn't include the HD 4870X2, it would make for an extremely misleading article. It's in there to demonstrate that for less cash, you can get a significant amount more performance. An HD 4870X2 can be had for less than £250 - thats less than the watercooler GTX 285. Of course, the watercooled card will be quieter and cooler, but if all you want is performance, a reader needs to know what else is out there - that;s why we have all these fancy graph engines and stuff, so show you what else is available!

perplekks45 · 9th Jul 2009, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by page 2

something that was a good idea when water-cooling the GTX 280 as the RAM can get pretty darn hot when left to its own devices.

Shouldn't that be 285 instead of 280?

Other than that it's nice to see the comparison to other nVidia cards and the 4870X2. It just helps to keep in mind where to rank this one.

Another nice article. Well done.

Matticus · 9th Jul 2009, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan

What i see:

All of the Game benches are won by the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB
The only Application bench (folding at home) is won by Nvidia cards
And in the power consumption part the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB is left out of it. (probably because it has higher power usage then anything else)

IMHO you should have left out the ATI Dualcore card completely, now people will get the wrong idea. Without it Nvidia wins.
Infact you should have left out all the ATI card and other Nvidia cards and only compare the Non watercooled GTX285 to the MSI watercooled GTX285.

What?
Why would you possibly want to leave out a card that is cheaper and better? I thought reviews were about comparisons.

One thing I would say about watercooling the ati would be the warranty. I know some vendors support changing the cooler as long as you don't cause any damage doing it, but I am sure this was usually nvidia vendors. So while it may be cheaper, if something goes wrong and they cotton on to your watercooling you may end up spending a LOT more.

ry@n · 9th Jul 2009, 13:16

Great write up, I dont see that as a bad price at all. £100 extra is reasonable as the block alone would be about £60-70 so it means you don't have the hassle of fitting the block and you get to keep your warrenty.

EDIT: I also had the same trouble with the G1/4 ports being too close together on my Heatkiller CPU block, Im also using 45degree TFC fittings to fix that.

kenco_uk · 9th Jul 2009, 13:19

A bit off-topic, but is there a review (to be done by bindi, natch) planned for the MSI X58M motherboard?

Teq · 9th Jul 2009, 13:42

It would have been interesting to do a price/performance/installation comparison with other watercooled solutions, maybe grab a couple of cheap 285's, a full cover EK block and a nice little MCW60, for those of us with existing watercooled graphics hardware I think this might have been more meaningful then.

perplekks45 · 9th Jul 2009, 13:48

I think Bindi will kill you for asking for that.

They tend not to have the time to do all they want, let alone all the stuff that would be considered "fun".

[USRF]Obiwan · 9th Jul 2009, 13:49

Hmmm sorry, did not look at the perspective of price, leave that out and you would probably have come to the same conclusion as I did

Combatus · 9th Jul 2009, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by perplekks45

Shouldn't that be 285 instead of 280?

Other than that it's nice to see the comparison to other nVidia cards and the 4870X2. It just helps to keep in mind where to rank this one.

Another nice article. Well done.

Nope, did mean the GTX 280 - was speaking reference to the RAM that was on the top side of the 280's PCB (some was GPU side, the rest was on the top side and it would get very hot if you didn't use heatsinks when watercooling the card). On the GTX 285 it's all core side so if you have a full cover water-block, all the RAM is water-cooled.

perplekks45 · 9th Jul 2009, 15:08

Apologies for not reading/understanding properly.
In the middle of learning for my final exam for BSc CS. God, how I HATE theoretical CS!

Oh, and I blame it on Cheaps of course.

xaser04 · 9th Jul 2009, 15:14

Nice card but as I said about the other MSI card, far too expensive in the current market. Given you can now get two GTX275 for less than this single card it puts into perspective just how expensive it is...

The water block does look nice though and seems to cool very well indeed.

Combatus · 9th Jul 2009, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by perplekks45

Apologies for not reading/understanding properly.
In the middle of learning for my final exam for BSc CS. God, how I HATE theoretical CS!

Oh, and I blame it on Cheaps of course.

No worries, good luck and enjoy your long holiday after your final exam!

perplekks45 · 9th Jul 2009, 17:51

Long holiday? I wish!
I studied in Germany so I'm 25 by now [yes, we take our time

] and I really want to work after living in Bath for the last 10 months without proper job thanks to the recession. Well, I already applied for a couple of jobs at the UN here in Vienna, fingers crossed.

Cheers anyway.

BrightCandle · 9th Jul 2009, 18:48

The temperature seen here is a little on the high side in comparison to what most people actually see on a real watercooled system. The reason is the rather poor radiator space in comparison to what you really need for such a hot part. A quiet system would use 1200rpm fans, then the rule of thumb is that a single 120mm radiator can cool the water to 10C with about 100 Watts of load (90-115 depending on the radiator used).

The GTX 285 is a 185W part, which means really it needs 240mm of radiator to cool it with a quiet fan, and that would halve the delta temperature seen in this review and be more inline with what you would normally get.

Of course a water cooled 4870X2 is great (what I have) but we could do with some prebuilts or companies that have warranties that cover watercooled cards because at the moment if it breaks you are buying a new card (or committing fraud by sending it for RMA).

Sparrowhawk · 9th Jul 2009, 18:55

Quote:

The Heatkiller GPU-X² block for the GTX 285 is awesome and dragged the delta T down to just 19°C (56°C)

...
What? You're confusing my stoooopid American mind.

Combatus · 9th Jul 2009, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrightCandle

The temperature seen here is a little on the high side in comparison to what most people actually see on a real watercooled system. The reason is the rather poor radiator space in comparison to what you really need for such a hot part. A quiet system would use 1200rpm fans, then the rule of thumb is that a single 120mm radiator can cool the water to 10C with about 100 Watts of load (90-115 depending on the radiator used).

The GTX 285 is a 185W part, which means really it needs 240mm of radiator to cool it with a quiet fan, and that would halve the delta temperature seen in this review and be more inline with what you would normally get.

Of course a water cooled 4870X2 is great (what I have) but we could do with some prebuilts or companies that have warranties that cover watercooled cards because at the moment if it breaks you are buying a new card (or committing fraud by sending it for RMA).

We do have a very powerful fan on the radiator - much more powerful than would normally be used so this will compensate as will the fact the lab has some fairly potent air conditioning. The rad itself was barely getting warm so we don't have any doubts that it was in any way over loaded. Agreed though, for a quiet system, a double 120mm rad would be needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk

What? You're confusing my stoooopid American mind.

delta T is the difference between the ambient air temperature and the temperature reported by the hardware (in this case the difference between the ambient air temperature and the temperature reported in GPU-Z).

If the temperature of the room is hotter when we test one graphics card, then cooler a week later when we test another, clearly the card tested on the cooler day will have an easier ride and the test is also unfair. A way to get around this is to use delta T - in theory if you test the same graphics card in two seperate rooms each with a different ambient temperature, you'll end up with the same delta T. At extreme temperature ranges this might not hold true, but our lab only varies between about 22 and 27 degrees which isn't an issue.

storm20200 · 9th Jul 2009, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk

Quote:

The Heatkiller GPU-X² block for the GTX 285 is awesome and dragged the delta T down to just 19°C (56°C)

...
What? You're confusing my stoooopid American mind.

I think they mean that the temp reduced to 19C over ambient then in brackets is the stock cooler performance which would be 56C over ambient

Elton · 9th Jul 2009, 21:41

The first thing I thought:

Yuck, red PCB.

9th Jul 2009, 10:53	#1
Lizard Addicted to upgrades Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 381	MSI GTX 285 HydroGen OC Review Sporting a Watercool Heatkiller GPU-X² full cover waterblock, MSI's GTX 285 HydroGen looks stunning. However we're more interested in whether it can keep Nvidia's fastest single core GPU cool. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/gra...en-oc-review/1 __________________ James Gorbold CPC Deputy Editor Folding/Gaming as Lizard More power, we need more power Join the Custom PC/Bit-tech Folding Team (#35947)

9th Jul 2009, 12:31	#2
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,220	What i see: All of the Game benches are won by the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB The only Application bench (folding at home) is won by Nvidia cards And in the power consumption part the ATI HD4870 X2 2GB is left out of it. (probably because it has higher power usage then anything else) IMHO you should have left out the ATI Dualcore card completely, now people will get the wrong idea. Without it Nvidia wins. Infact you should have left out all the ATI card and other Nvidia cards and only compare the Non watercooled GTX285 to the MSI watercooled GTX285. __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

9th Jul 2009, 13:16	#6
ry@n 3²Gaming Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gloucestershire, UK Posts: 957	Great write up, I dont see that as a bad price at all. £100 extra is reasonable as the block alone would be about £60-70 so it means you don't have the hassle of fitting the block and you get to keep your warrenty. EDIT: I also had the same trouble with the G1/4 ports being too close together on my Heatkiller CPU block, Im also using 45degree TFC fittings to fix that. __________________ Stacker 830 Evo //Core i7-920 ~ 4Ghz (4.2 stable) //Gigabyte EX58-UD5 //Corsair Dominator 6GB 1600Mhz //BFG GTX 285 OCX //BeQuiet! 750w //7200.12 1TB DDC Ultra 18w //Black Ice 360mm //EK Multioption 250mm //Heatkiller LT CPU Block //MIPS RAM block DDC Ultra 18w //Black Ice 240mm //EK Multioption 150mm //No Blocks yet - Dual Loop i7 Stacker Left Handed? CLICK HERE -

9th Jul 2009, 13:19	#7
kenco_uk I feel your presents. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bourne, Lincolnshire, UK Posts: 6,310	A bit off-topic, but is there a review (to be done by bindi, natch) planned for the MSI X58M motherboard? __________________ MSI X58M - i7 920 4Ghz - 6GB Corsair - GTX260 648/2520 ::: Vote for bit-tech T - theevilelephant - "it sounded like bouncing around on a pogo stick, screaming in chinese while occasionally throwing a cat at a door."

9th Jul 2009, 13:48	#9
perplekks45 BSc... finally Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,352	I think Bindi will kill you for asking for that. They tend not to have the time to do all they want, let alone all the stuff that would be considered "fun". __________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." Blame it on Cheaps! [now a social group]

9th Jul 2009, 13:42	#8
Teq 69 Dude!! Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 69	It would have been interesting to do a price/performance/installation comparison with other watercooled solutions, maybe grab a couple of cheap 285's, a full cover EK block and a nice little MCW60, for those of us with existing watercooled graphics hardware I think this might have been more meaningful then.

9th Jul 2009, 13:49	#10
[USRF]Obiwan Ultramodder Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,220	Hmmm sorry, did not look at the perspective of price, leave that out and you would probably have come to the same conclusion as I did __________________ Mascleta: "The most accurate simulation of thunder, humans can simulate..." The answer is 42, so... whats the question again? If you know what 'Peek' and 'Poke' represents, then you are probably as old as me.

9th Jul 2009, 15:08	#12
perplekks45 BSc... finally Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,352	Apologies for not reading/understanding properly. In the middle of learning for my final exam for BSc CS. God, how I HATE theoretical CS! Oh, and I blame it on Cheaps of course. __________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." Blame it on Cheaps! [now a social group]

9th Jul 2009, 15:14	#13
xaser04 Multimodder Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 149	Nice card but as I said about the other MSI card, far too expensive in the current market. Given you can now get two GTX275 for less than this single card it puts into perspective just how expensive it is... The water block does look nice though and seems to cool very well indeed. __________________ Scientology - A Religion for those who think Star Trek is a documentary

9th Jul 2009, 17:51	#15
perplekks45 BSc... finally Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3,352	Long holiday? I wish! I studied in Germany so I'm 25 by now [yes, we take our time ] and I really want to work after living in Bath for the last 10 months without proper job thanks to the recession. Well, I already applied for a couple of jobs at the UN here in Vienna, fingers crossed. Cheers anyway. __________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." Blame it on Cheaps! [now a social group]

9th Jul 2009, 18:48	#16
BrightCandle What's a Dremel? Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6	The temperature seen here is a little on the high side in comparison to what most people actually see on a real watercooled system. The reason is the rather poor radiator space in comparison to what you really need for such a hot part. A quiet system would use 1200rpm fans, then the rule of thumb is that a single 120mm radiator can cool the water to 10C with about 100 Watts of load (90-115 depending on the radiator used). The GTX 285 is a 185W part, which means really it needs 240mm of radiator to cool it with a quiet fan, and that would halve the delta temperature seen in this review and be more inline with what you would normally get. Of course a water cooled 4870X2 is great (what I have) but we could do with some prebuilts or companies that have warranties that cover watercooled cards because at the moment if it breaks you are buying a new card (or committing fraud by sending it for RMA).

9th Jul 2009, 21:41	#20
Elton A Monitor Afficionado.. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: California Posts: 2,031	The first thing I thought: Yuck, red PCB. __________________ EP45-UD3P\|HIS HD4850 ICE-Q 4 Turbo @ 690/1090\|4GB G.Skill DDR2-800 @ 844mhz\|HAF932\|Antec True Power Trio 550w\|E8400@3.8Ghz FSB:421 Volt: Stock\|Vortex 752(Heatsink)\|Mitsubishi/NEC LCD1860NX Other Build: ECS RS400-A\|Prescott P4 @ 3.45Ghz\|2GB DDR2 533\|OEM ATi X1600XT\|Dynex 430w\|Some Random Case\|Mitsubishi 20" Diamondtron Pro