bit-tech.net

Go Back   bit-tech.net Forums > bit-tech.net > Article Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th Aug 2009, 10:20   #1
Sifter3000
I used to be somebody
Moderator
 
Sifter3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The South Sea Bubble
Posts: 1,766
Sifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the DremelSifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the DremelSifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the DremelSifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the DremelSifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the DremelSifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the DremelSifter3000 has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
The missing component for true AI

http://www.bit-tech.net/blog/2009/08...t-for-true-ai/

__________________
The Rt Hon Alex Watson.
Dennis Publishing Emerging Platforms, bit and CPC alumni.

My weblog is The Wired Jester.
Photos on Flickr.
Sifter3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 10:41   #2
alpaca
llama eats dremel
 
alpaca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 1,131
alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.alpaca is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.
after the descrete graphics card, the discrete soundcard, now comes the discrete AI card. a bunch of those memristors on a pcb and you can play agianst a real challenge! no need for other people anymore!
__________________
my English may not be as good as I think it is...
alpaca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 10:43   #3
Combinho
Ten kinds of awesome
 
Combinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,170
Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.Combinho is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.
A very interesting and informative blog.
__________________
"[The World Wide Web is] the only thing I know of whose shortened form www takes three times longer to say than what it's short for." - Douglas Adams
Battlefield 3: Combinho Steam: Combinho
Combinho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 11:25   #4
Tyrmot
Supermodder
 
Tyrmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 294
Tyrmot has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
I read that NS article, it was very good. However I think there's still a lot more to come in developing true AI than a missing part - everyone always seems to say it's 'just around the corner' and then some new level of complexity is discovered which pushes it back again. Rather than designing AI in a sort of 'reverse-engineersing the human brain' kind of way, perhaps the way to do it is simply to attempt to arrange matters so that it can arise from the underlying architecture? Is that what is happening in this field? Wish I knew more about it really... definitely one of the most interesting areas of IT today, and receives less attention than it deserves
Tyrmot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 11:42   #5
LAGMonkey
Group 7 error
 
LAGMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cyprus/Canada/Saudi
Posts: 1,507
LAGMonkey has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
skynet?!
__________________
---------------LAG out!---------------


http://www.xkcd.com
100% Brainless]
LAGMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 11:53   #6
Paradigm Shifter
de nihilo nihil fit
 
Paradigm Shifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,638
Paradigm Shifter has yet to learn the way of the DremelParadigm Shifter has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
If anyone wants to read a fascinating paper on memristors, here's the reference:

Strukov, D.B., Snider, G.S., Stewart, D.R., Williams, R.S. (2008) The Missing Memristor Found. Nature. 453(1): 80-3.

Shows a lot of promise for super-high-density low-volatility memory.
__________________
Core i7 920 D0 @ 3.8GHz | 24GB Corsair 1600MHz | Gigabyte G1.Killer Guerilla | GTX680 Surround | 3TB | 5760x1200+1920x1080
Paradigm Shifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 11:54   #7
Cutter McJ1b
Home-cut jibs at discount Prices
 
Cutter McJ1b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
Cutter McJ1b has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrmot
I read that NS article, it was very good. However I think there's still a lot more to come in developing true AI than a missing part - everyone always seems to say it's 'just around the corner' and then some new level of complexity is discovered which pushes it back again. Rather than designing AI in a sort of 'reverse-engineersing the human brain' kind of way, perhaps the way to do it is simply to attempt to arrange matters so that it can arise from the underlying architecture? Is that what is happening in this field? Wish I knew more about it really... definitely one of the most interesting areas of IT today, and receives less attention than it deserves
From what I gathered researching for the Artificial Intelligence feature that we wrote, it seemed to me more like we had hit something of a deadend in our searh for creating a true AI rather than it being just round the corner. There's more to conciousness than just a hardware and software combination and that's all we can do. The memristor may change that provide us a way out and set us on a path to creating a real Jonny Five. However there also may be more pieces of the puzzle that are yet to be discovered.
Cutter McJ1b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 14:07   #8
Hugo
Ultramodder
 
Hugo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,384
Hugo has yet to learn the way of the DremelHugo has yet to learn the way of the DremelHugo has yet to learn the way of the DremelHugo has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Okay, so basically Leon Chua and Stan Williams are the guys who we need to go back in time and kill to stop Skynet being created?
__________________
thisishugo.com - I have opinions; you can read them.
Hugo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 14:11   #9
Cutter McJ1b
Home-cut jibs at discount Prices
 
Cutter McJ1b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
Cutter McJ1b has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoB
Okay, so basically Leon Chua and Stan Williams are the guys who we need to go back in time and kill to stop Skynet being created?
You win the reading-between-the-lines-of-the-blog competition. That is precisely the case. Work is currently under way to finish the time machine, though attempts are in jeopardy of being foiled by evil robots that have been sent back in time by Skynet. Watch this space.
Cutter McJ1b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 15:23   #10
thehippoz
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 5,780
thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!thehippoz - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutter McJ1b View Post
From what I gathered researching for the Artificial Intelligence feature that we wrote, it seemed to me more like we had hit something of a deadend in our searh for creating a true AI rather than it being just round the corner. There's more to conciousness than just a hardware and software combination and that's all we can do. The memristor may change that provide us a way out and set us on a path to creating a real Jonny Five. However there also may be more pieces of the puzzle that are yet to be discovered.
hehe yeah it's crap to mystify the masses.. so what, it holds it's 'memory' or resistance in a powered off state- it's old tech too.. how is that any better than ram when it comes to the task of creating true ai- imo the more they go down this route, the more fail your gonna have

computers just do exactly what they are programmed to do.. nothing more, nothing less.. until they can somehow master biology- that's a long way off imo.. we won't see a true ai, in reality all these guys trying to create a working ai with hardware, if they step back.. on/off that's all it is, it maybe complex but nothing intelligent

we may never figure it out
thehippoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 15:59   #11
Cutter McJ1b
Home-cut jibs at discount Prices
 
Cutter McJ1b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
Cutter McJ1b has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehippoz View Post
we may never figure it out
Yup, it's true, we may never figure it out. But. If we don't try then we will definitely never figure it out. If you want a comprehensive answer as to why a memristor is different to RAM in the task of creating an AI, let's revert back to New Scientist's feature.

'In true memristive fashion, Chua had anticipated the idea that memristors might have something to say about how biological organisms learn. While completing his first paper on memristors, he became fascinated by synapses - the gaps between nerve cells in higher organisms across which nerve impulses must pass. In particular, he noticed their complex electrical response to the ebb and flow of potassium and sodium ions across the membranes of each cell, which allow the synapses to alter their response according to the frequency and strength of signals. It looked maddeningly similar to the response a memristor would produce. "I realised then that synapses were memristors," he says. "The ion channel was the missing circuit element I was looking for, and it already existed in nature."
The behaviour of synapses looked maddeningly similar to a memristor's response

To Chua, this all points to a home truth. Despite years of effort, attempts to build an electronic intelligence that can mimic the awesome power of a brain have seen little success. And that might be simply because we were lacking the crucial electronic components - memristors.'
Cutter McJ1b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 07:26   #12
Xtrafresh
It never hurts to help
 
Xtrafresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: St. Martin, Dutch Antilles
Posts: 2,990
Xtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run CrysisXtrafresh can run Crysis
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehippoz
computers just do exactly what they are programmed to do.. nothing more, nothing less.. until they can somehow master biology- that's a long way off imo..
What is this "biology" you speak of? Do you mean a bag of complicatedly managed chemicals? Computers can do that. Do you mean evolution? Computers can do that too, i submit to you that the current generations of computers would have been impossible to build without the last.
__________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
- George Carlin
Xtrafresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 09:43   #13
RotoSequence
Lazy Lurker
 
RotoSequence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 'States
Posts: 4,588
RotoSequence has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
If the patterns of thought can be mimicked with hardware and software, AI is possible. Since we've been simulating small parts of the brain with brute force software techniques and getting similar results as biological brains, it's probably just a matter of time.
__________________
Technology Schmecnology
RotoSequence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 10:07   #14
Cutter McJ1b
Home-cut jibs at discount Prices
 
Cutter McJ1b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 123
Cutter McJ1b has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotoSequence
Since we've been simulating small parts of the brain with brute force software techniques.....
Do you have a link to any good examples of this?
Cutter McJ1b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 11:49   #15
TSR2
Multimodder
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 160
TSR2 has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
I can see this being pretty important, isn't the brain different from a machine in that it can think in shades of grey, not just 0's and 1's. Though I can't see myself buying a robotic, artificially intelligent, servant soon
TSR2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 19:35   #16
Star*Dagger
Pan-Galactic Revolutionary
 
Star*Dagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth, Sol System, Alpha Quadrant
Posts: 814
Star*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for presidentStar*Dagger should be considered for president
2 comments

1) the brain is holographic, you do it all or you do it wrong.

2) AI will not be in computer games until there is no more Ministry or Department of Defense. The US military already has cloaking, you do not see that...

Yours in harsh but True Plasma,
Star*Dagger
Star*Dagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 19:49   #17
OtakuHawk
The Post of The Beast
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 666
OtakuHawk has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpaca
no need for other people anymore!
that is kind of what we're worried about.
__________________
Ultra-Lurker
OtakuHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Aug 2009, 21:33   #18
RotoSequence
Lazy Lurker
 
RotoSequence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 'States
Posts: 4,588
RotoSequence has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutter McJ1b View Post
Do you have a link to any good examples of this?
http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

The BBC covered the story as well;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8012496.stm
__________________
Technology Schmecnology
RotoSequence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th Sep 2009, 13:27   #19
BLC
Something witty goes here
 
BLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 2,301
BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.BLC is definitely a rep cheat.
Extremely interesting read. It's going to take years of research to even try to see what practical implications any of this will have, but isn't that what science is all about?
__________________
Asus Z87-K | Core i5 4670K | MSI GTX760 "TwinFrozr OC Edition" | 8GB Corsair Venegance 1600MHz
-------------------------------------------
Look ma, I do YouTube!
BLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:01.
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.