Graphics Year 2010 - fulfilment of desires: HD5870 or GT300

[Kyocera]

The graphic desires of an average PC enthusiast are catching fire with the new generation of graphic cards.
The dreams are allowed, but who will fulfill them??

Ati? price/power
Nvidia? desire of domination and proprietary solutions with premium marketing driven prices

[Kyocera]

The interesting data are flowing from all directions. 5870!!!

Lets see the cooling; the new 5870 will have (standard) a similar ventilator and noise levels as 480 series (Like a hair-dryer).

GPU load: 75% ventilator speed 30% temperature 75C
75% 50% 60C
75% 100% 55C

95% 30% 76C

[Kyocera]

CZECH Gamer has very interesting benchmarks:

1920X1200 resolution
Battleforge 62f (GTX295 60) 4xAA 8xAF 47 (51)
Company of Heroes 131,7 (150)
Crysis Warhead 51,5 (53,6) 4xAA 8xAF 43,6 (48,8)
Far Cry 2 85,2 (90)
STALKER Clear SKy 38,4 (40,5)


More at
http://www.czechgamer.com/gallery.ph...benchmarks.jpg

[smc8788]

There's already a thread on these cards here:

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=174618

All those benchmarks from that site have already been posted in that thread. Perhaps in the interest of cleanliness these threads could be merged; I don't see the point of having two.

[Kyocera]

Nvidia
as you probably know, the stock of the above mentioned company was painfully downgraded from buy to neutral.
While the technical department of the company jointly with TSMC prays for deliverance (of an miracle), has the investment and financial department elected the road taken by ythe marketing while rebranding the whole series.
The only adjective, that comes at once to the mind, is thrilling, when you think about the conference for financial analysts at Deutsche Bank Securities Technology Conference.
Mike Hara, the vice president of investor relation at Nvidia:
-the sales of graphic cards will not be driven by DirectX11 and related demanding video games but by GPGPU general purpose computing relaying on their new graphics.
The firm wishes to rely on proprietary tools and emerging GPGPU software that will allow the GPU to be a co-processor to the CPU and make possible better user experience in the field of video and photography.

-at present there is a LOT of software that takes advantage of CUDA, thus providing the owners of GeForce hardware with numerous benefits already NOW.
(Nvidia is pushing in every possible manner towards CuDA, Stereo3DVision, PhysX and other proprietary software. Such "money" efforts are in deep contrast with the graphic industry movement towards an open-standard DirectCompute 11 and OpenCL enviroments where all the producers of hardware (ATI/Intel/Nvidia, ...) don't rely on advantages of software, but must follow the rule of "best hardware wins".

-at present we are at the crossroads in the graphic world: framerates and resolutions are today very high, and going from 120 to 125fps is not going to fundamentally change end-user experience.
(apparently he has not played a FEW YEARS OLD Crysis with his "modern" hardware; and even if Crysis poses as graphic Eldorado, it's faaar away from photorealistic images; I'm not going into 30" monitors discussion).

[Kyocera]

Latest: Nvidia CEO Huang is planning a visit to TSMC in mid-October; to nail down the contract prices for the 40nm GPU production and to eye the yields on the high-end GT300.

Nvidia will try to launch it towards end of November; no telling what the prices of the few available pieces....

ATI is launching a finished product this week, Nvidia is launching today the travel schedule of it's director. go, Nvidia, go

[Jambo72]

Originally Posted by Kyocera

Latest: Nvidia CEO Huang is planning a visit to TSMC in mid-October; to nail down the contract prices for the 40nm GPU production and to eye the yields on the high-end GT300.

Nvidia will try to launch it towards end of November; no telling what the prices of the few available pieces....

ATI is launching a finished product this week, Nvidia is launching today the travel schedule of it's director. go, Nvidia, go

When Nvidia realease the 300, thats when the real fight will begin.... I can' wait

[antaresIII]

Well, there are the first disappointments on the ATI front.
Heavy ones.
Just when you think that the company has learned from the past and really gone past pure marketing.

AMD apparently decided to hunt for raw performance and to leave the perfect IMAGE QUALITY on the rain outside (and the owner with it).
You probably know that ATI chronically suffers from angle dependence in Anisotropic filtering.

To make the long story short, ATI recreated a better performance by economizing-saving-reducing the processing in texture units and therefore gaining higher performance.
The image quality is suffering; the filter flickers much more noticeable than on the ACTUAL GeForce cards.

The current joke is, that with the deactivated Anisotropic filter, to guarantee an acceptable image stability, the Crossfire or X2 system strikes (the question to clarify is, whether that is a hunger or a sympathy strike).

Anyway, the proud owner of their top (hefty priced) 5870 gets a powerful GPU with an old time cubical image puzzle.

[Kyocera]

ATI is selling the 5870 for 333$; you must add taxes (VAT) and retailer margin...so in Euro zone it comes to 320 euro; have in mind, that there will be a milking try at start, so expect to pay something more.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by antaresIII

Well, there are the first disappointments on the ATI front.
Heavy ones.
Just when you think that the company has learned from the past and really gone past pure marketing.

AMD apparently decided to hunt for raw performance and to leave the perfect IMAGE QUALITY on the rain outside (and the owner with it).
You probably know that ATI chronically suffers from angle dependence in Anisotropic filtering.

To make the long story short, ATI recreated a better performance by economizing-saving-reducing the processing in texture units and therefore gaining higher performance.
The image quality is suffering; the filter flickers much more noticeable than on the ACTUAL GeForce cards.

The current joke is, that with the deactivated Anisotropic filter, to guarantee an acceptable image stability, the Crossfire or X2 system strikes (the question to clarify is, whether that is a hunger or a sympathy strike).

Anyway, the proud owner of their top (hefty priced) 5870 gets a powerful GPU with an old time cubical image puzzle.

and you know this how?

[marlowdrummer]

Originally Posted by antaresIII

Well, there are the first disappointments on the ATI front.
Heavy ones.
Just when you think that the company has learned from the past and really gone past pure marketing.

AMD apparently decided to hunt for raw performance and to leave the perfect IMAGE QUALITY on the rain outside (and the owner with it).
You probably know that ATI chronically suffers from angle dependence in Anisotropic filtering.

To make the long story short, ATI recreated a better performance by economizing-saving-reducing the processing in texture units and therefore gaining higher performance.
The image quality is suffering; the filter flickers much more noticeable than on the ACTUAL GeForce cards.

The current joke is, that with the deactivated Anisotropic filter, to guarantee an acceptable image stability, the Crossfire or X2 system strikes (the question to clarify is, whether that is a hunger or a sympathy strike).

Anyway, the proud owner of their top (hefty priced) 5870 gets a powerful GPU with an old time cubical image puzzle.

That seems to have changed according to here

If it turns out to be true (and at the moment I'm taking most reviews witha bit of salt) it should solve most of the problems you are talking about.

[antaresIII]

I know; such first tests as Anadtech is presenting were very promising.

The problems, apparently, appear in games (real use).

I'm sure we will have all the answers quite soon, now that the rock begun.

[thehippoz]

Originally Posted by antaresIII

Well, there are the first disappointments on the ATI front.
Heavy ones.
Just when you think that the company has learned from the past and really gone past pure marketing.

AMD apparently decided to hunt for raw performance and to leave the perfect IMAGE QUALITY on the rain outside (and the owner with it).
You probably know that ATI chronically suffers from angle dependence in Anisotropic filtering.

To make the long story short, ATI recreated a better performance by economizing-saving-reducing the processing in texture units and therefore gaining higher performance.
The image quality is suffering; the filter flickers much more noticeable than on the ACTUAL GeForce cards.

The current joke is, that with the deactivated Anisotropic filter, to guarantee an acceptable image stability, the Crossfire or X2 system strikes (the question to clarify is, whether that is a hunger or a sympathy strike).

Anyway, the proud owner of their top (hefty priced) 5870 gets a powerful GPU with an old time cubical image puzzle.

yeah I've seen this too antares.. I have an nvidia card, certain games unless you force the 8q or 16q aa, you will sometimes see shimmering between objects in the game.. why I see reviews at 4x and I know they see the shimmer in certain areas but it's never mentioned

it used to be the other way around before the g80- it was well known nvidia was lacking in the pants back then they even had problems on the desktop which I thought was strange- we used to talk about it in my clan.. remember ghoul was all- I thought my eyes were getting bad! but it's this damn nvidia card

nice article marlow.. looks like it's even better than the Q modes- nvidias 16q imo is perfection.. but the other modes suffer from cox in mouth in certain games.. if ati fixed it in all modes, that would be cool.. still want to see the x2 version on crysis- not too excited about gt300, only because nvidia has taken enough of my money over the last couple years

we'll have to wait and see what happens though.. if they are alot better (which I doubt, nvidia just does what it has to- we'd still be on die shrunk 8800's if ati went under) I might consider buying from them again.. I'm not a folder and physx they've shown, they will stick it to paying customers for no reason

[marlowdrummer]

Originally Posted by thehippoz

nice article marlow.. looks like it's even better than the Q modes- nvidias 16q imo is perfection.. but the other modes suffer from cox in mouth in certain games.. if ati fixed it in all modes, that would be cool.. still want to see the x2 version on crysis- not too excited about gt300, only because nvidia has taken enough of my money over the last couple years

Cheers, I wish I had written it, but it's just something I found on my travels. It is a nice descrition of how it works though and how ATI have moved on.

As AntaresIII says, as long as it is also implemented in games as it is in the demo, I'll be a happy lad.

TTFN
S.

[Kyocera]

Apparently we will see the new GT300 around the beginning of December; at least in news.
Probably the only top GPU worth buying will be the "395" dual gt300; especially if we consider, that a real graphic leap forward comes only 5870x2 format.

I wonder what the dimensions of the dual-GT300 will be; the 5870x2 seems quite long on the photos.

If I buy a Raven02 case today, will I be able to fit inside the dual Nvidia GT300 card???

[Kyocera]

I gave a look at the technical description for Raven 02; it supports graphic cards up to 10,5 inches length; the new ATI 5870x2 is 11 inch and the upcoming dual gt300 is said to be even longer; somewhere around 12 inches.
?????????
The new cases don't support new cards???

[Wozzname]

It might partly go into the hard drive bay - still a fit, but not a very good one.

[rainbowbridge]

You have to wait till xmas for a dx11 purchase does nto matter how good the Ati solution is.

[Kyocera]

Originally Posted by Wozzname

It might partly go into the hard drive bay - still a fit, but not a very good one.

Raven 02 has the motherboard rotated for 90 degrees; the GeForce "395" goes in between the case panels. If there is not enough room you're fried.
I did write an email to Silverstone, asking how to fit new cards in there.....

[Kyocera]

Originally Posted by Kyocera

Apparently we will see the new GT300 around the beginning of December; at least in news.
Probably the only top GPU worth buying will be the "395" dual gt300; especially if we consider, that a real graphic leap forward comes only 5870x2 format.

I wonder what the dimensions of the dual-GT300 will be; the 5870x2 seems quite long on the photos.

If I buy a Raven02 case today, will I be able to fit inside the dual Nvidia GT300 card???

The 5870 is already 11 inches long!!! (I did read somewhere it was 10,5 inch)
The 5870x2 is coming out at 12.5 inch!!!
So, the perfect case for me, the Raven 02 has just gone through the window, flying in the fall sunset, toward the wamn weather in the south....