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Old 8th Apr 2010, 10:51   #41
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"Sega: PC market is bigger than you think" because we own so much of it and are raking in the cash!
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Old 8th Apr 2010, 15:18   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7 View Post
Well, these people aren't gamers to begin with, let alone hardcore. Just because someone has a particular platform and a few games doesn't give him/her hardcore status. He is just as ignorant about his console as he is about the PC.

Hardcore Versus Casual


We can have another debate about what is the difference between "hardcore" and "casual" games.

You were trying to make it sound like hardcore PC gaming is dying because less and less gamers want to play "hardcore" games.

Yet the best selling PS3 and XBOX games are the very same type of games that many hardcore PC gamers with high-end rigs are playing.

Such as Killzone is a similar type of "shooter" to Crysis. Halo on XBOX is quite a similar game to Halo PC.

List of best-selling video games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ng_video_games

Halo 3 (8.1 million) No.1 best selling game on XBOX 360

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, 2nd best selling game on XBOX 360 (7.479 million approximately; 6.471 million in US, 85.411 in Japan, at least 1 million in UK)

Gran Turismo (10.85 million shipped) No.1 best selling game on Playstation 1

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (17.33 million approximately) No.1 best selling game on Playstation 2

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, Best selling game on Playstation 3 (4.74 million approximately; 3.531 million in the US, 219,338 in Japan, at least 1 million in UK)

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (4.65 million) 2nd best selling game on Playstation 3

Regardless of how popular casual gaming gets, such as "Wii Sports" (60.69 million copies sold), not many people buy XBOX 360s or Playstation 3's for casual gaming. They buy them for high graphics 'hardcore' gaming. That's why those consoles were made with higher processing power than the Wii.

My personal experiences of seeing 'console-only' gamers get into PC gaming is extremely unpalatable for you, and it completely goes against everything you want to believe. This is why you choose to smokescreen the facts and make a big issue out of whether or not I like a particular PC case that someone else chose.

I don't like the looks of the Playstation 3, at least when it's laid down and you're seeing it from the viewing angle of the front and optical drive bay under the curved top. It looks horrible. But that doesn't mean I would try to prevent one of my friends from getting their dream PS3's. I have a PS3 as well. But to be honest, if all games were available on PC, I probably wouldn't have a PS3. This is what happens unfortunately: PC gamers are 'forced' away from the platform.



Crysis Versus Killzone


You want to know why I keep on mentioning Crysis?

It's to remind you that it's not 'universally' classed as a 'casual' game, just like 'Call Of Duty' and many other 'hardcore' games that push XBOX and Playstation sales.

Killzone 2 (sold 2 million) - an over-hyped PS3 exclusive game that advertized 24/7 on national TV. Not bad.

Crysis (sold 1.5 million) - Considering the PC hardware specs required, and the fact that PC gaming is a kind of "hidden, underground way to game", Crysis (the PC exclusive with almost zero advertizing) sold extremely well.

Now imagine if Crysis was advertized like Killzone 2.

This is the type of thing that YOU fear, and this is the type of thing that MICROSOFT also fears.



The hidden, underground way to game


You mentioned how Gaming PCs are not selling in your local stores.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

These stores 'sell' PC gaming similar to the way YOU would sell it: -

Let customer walk into store and be greeted in face with 'consoles' playing all the latest games for everyone to gather around and try - But let 'Gaming PCs' be put to the back of the store without even being switched on and having any demos playing. Then scratch head and wonder why they're not selling.
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 00:24   #43
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[QUOTE=tron;2271038]A special step-by-step guide to understanding how someone can go from not knowing anything about PC cases to knowing a lot


Quote:
Duh 1: First, you may not know much. No problem, everyone starts here.
Duh 1.5: Thats why you get smart before purchasing ANYTHING, and don't rely on anyone "showing" you what to purchase. Hehe!
Quote:
Duh 2: Then you may get introduced by a friend to certain websites that sell PC cases.
Duh 2.5: See Duh 1.5
Quote:
Duh 3: You read the specs and compare the ones you like the look of the most.
Duh 3.5: What about price, performance and reviews? "Don't worry about that right now, you like the way it looks riiiiight!
Quote:
Duh 4: You check the prices and see if they are acceptable to YOU.
Duh 4.5: See Duh 1.5 and Duh 3.5!

Quote:
Duh 5: What if you pre-order a case that has no reviews due to the fact it is not released yet? Don't worry, you may choose to wait, or even pre-order it. If you don't like it, send it back.
Duh 5.5: See Duh 1.5

DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING CONVERSATION IS FICTIONAL

Warrior says: "Duh! I have a problem. I have this strange tendency to call other people "DOOR KNOBS". But what if I read your step-by-step instruction and I STILL don't understand basic logic? Should I panic?" Because they seem to have a steep "leaning" *er* "learning" curve.

Quote:
Tron says: "DON'T PANIC !!! I can translate the guide into a special coloring book for you. You don't need to rush it. Just take your time and color in the pictures one by one" But before we do that, I have some PC cases I'd like you to look at!
Understanding the difference between 'MY' dream case and 'HIS' dream case


Quote:
So as expected, Warrior thinks he was being a smart boy to quote MY personal opinions of someone else's dream PC case. Duh!
Those are "your" words, not mine. What? You mean that you didn't want anybody to know? Hmmm...I wonder why? You just said how you felt!

Quote:
It seems there was too much bandwidth of information for him to understand the fact that the case was not bought for me, but by a friend for himself, who was absolutely determined to get this case.
He was after that fantastic special leaning feature!

Quote:
The case's unique 'leaning feature' was not advertized when he pre-ordered it.
Of course not, do you think they're stupid?!!

Quote:
Only after it was built, did I notice this fantastic special leaning feature.
So that is what you sold him on, the "fantastic", "special", leaning feature? It's a "lean", mean computing machine" literally!

Quote:
It doesn't even require a kick-stand, because the aluminium frame was specially designed to take the weight and show off the extra feature.
It leans like a pimp on a cane!

Quote:
Even without a built-in or third party kick-stand, my friend STILL thinks the case is the best and I still think it looks like an artwork you may see in a gallery
No you don't. ""It isn't the most beautiful case IMHO. From some angles, such as directly looking at the front, it can look a bit ugly. But the case is definitely different - but then, "different" doesn't necessarily automatically = good."-tron
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 00:25   #44
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[QUOTE=tron;2271432]Hardcore Versus Casual


Quote:
We can have another debate about what is the difference between "hardcore" and "casual" games.

You were trying to make it sound like hardcore PC gaming is dying because less and less gamers want to play "hardcore" games.
No, less and less gamers want to game on the PC! They're still playing the same games, but playing them on something else. PC gamers are leaving the system and migrating to consoles, simple as that. You're one of these people.

Quote:
Yet the best selling PS3 and XBOX games are the very same type of games that many hardcore PC gamers with high-end rigs are playing.
This is exactly what I've been saying all along. Expensive high end rig, same damn DX9 console game! How many people have high end rigs? EXACTLY!!! How many people want or can afford highend rigs? EXACTLY!!! It doesn't take a highend rig to play todays games. Thats why you don't see, AND WON'T SEE any high profile PC only games.

Quote:
Regardless of how popular casual gaming gets, such as "Wii Sports" (60.69 million copies sold), not many people buy XBOX 360s or Playstation 3's for casual gaming. They buy them for high graphics 'hardcore' gaming. That's why those consoles were made with higher processing power than the Wii.
What are you talking about, you're not making any sense! The Wii is LEADING in console sales despite being inferior in ability. This is the problem, you put hardware before software. In console gaming the games come first! The software sells the hardware! The PC has it backwards. Here you have a $500, DX11 Fermi card and no games! The best looking games right now are on the console, no matter what video card you have! A DX9, 720P, console game like GoW 3 blows everything else out of the water! DX11, $500? So far, meh!

Quote:
My personal experiences of seeing 'console-only' gamers get into PC gaming is extremely unpalatable for you, and it completely goes against everything you want to believe. This is why you choose to smokescreen the facts and make a big issue out of whether or not I like a particular PC case that someone else chose.
Why would you think that? I came to PC gaming remember? I'm just not getting my moneys worth. You promoted, and sold him on a case he never even seen or heard of. You took advantage of his ignorance just to promote your version of PC gaming. It was a selfish move.

Quote:
I don't like the looks of the Playstation 3, at least when it's laid down and you're seeing it from the viewing angle of the front and optical drive bay under the curved top. It looks horrible. But that doesn't mean I would try to prevent one of my friends from getting their dream PS3's. I have a PS3 as well. But to be honest, if all games were available on PC, I probably wouldn't have a PS3. This is what happens unfortunately: PC gamers are 'forced' away from the platform.
No you're not. You're not "forced" to do anything. The PS3 has better games than the PC. Games that you can't play anywhere else, the PC doesn't have games that make you want to buy a gaming PC. There is "NOTHING" on the PC that begs you to play it...nothing!

Quote:
Crysis Versus Killzone
Killzone 2? What happened to HALO 3 and COD 4? The two games that took turns abusing it after launch. Lol!!! Scared?!! Hahahahaha!!!


Quote:
You want to know why I keep on mentioning Crysis?
I know why, because there is nothing else to point to! Nothing!! There has been nothing happening on the PC since it's release! Everything is coming off of the console! Where is the Crysis 2009, 2010 or 2011? What game? This was the most hyped game of 2007! Everything was about Crysis. The game was suppose to be a graphical show case for the PC, the HALO killer. The game launched and fell flat on it's face! It fired straight out of the cannon with a loud boom and landed 2 feet away! IT WAS A DUD! Now Crysis is on the console giving no incentive to play it on the PC. In fact, it'll play better on the console too boot. No DRM or compatibilty issues and thats a fact! EVERY console owner will have the same experience

Quote:
It's to remind you that it's not 'universally' classed as a 'casual' game, just like 'Call Of Duty' and many other 'hardcore' games that push XBOX and Playstation sales.
It reminds me of monumentous failure. The most hyped game of the year...sucked! There is no denying that, numbers don't lie, it's a fact. The console games HALO 3 and COD4 owned the game outright and embarrassed it!

http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=177667

http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/commen...ml?id=121507_2

Quote:
Killzone 2 (sold 2 million) - an over-hyped PS3 exclusive game that advertized 24/7 on national TV. Not bad.
It totally outsold an overhyped, and overrated PC exclusive game, that recieved 12 months of continuous hype, that totally disappointed it's user base and sent it developer running for the cover of console development. Not bad? Nah, it was easy.

Quote:
Crysis (sold 1.5 million) - Considering the PC hardware specs required, and the fact that PC gaming is a kind of "hidden, underground way to game", Crysis (the PC exclusive with almost zero advertizing) sold extremely well.
It sold like $h!t. COD 4 sold 1.5 million units in 30 days, Crysis sold less than 90,000. This is the PC's "best" game too. It's a joke.

Quote:
Now imagine if Crysis was advertized like Killzone 2.
As I said before, you can't polish a turd. PC gamers flushed this thing, advertising didn't. Not even a year after it's release it was in the bargin bin, with everybody playing HALO 3 and COD 4! Get serious!

Quote:
This is the type of thing that YOU fear, and this is the type of thing that MICROSOFT also fears.
PC gaming scares no one. It's actually being ignored by devleopers and basically mocked by gamers! A platform that loses -26% per year is a threat to no one, but a disappointmet to many as they've seemed to have wasted their money.


The hidden, underground way to game


Quote:
You mentioned how Gaming PCs are not selling in your local stores.
You want a gaming desktop, then you go online or build it yourself.

Quote:
It doesn't surprise me at all.

These stores 'sell' PC gaming similar to the way YOU would sell it: -
You're right, they don't. And neither do I, because I don't have to. I let the games sell themselves! Take one look at GoW 3 and you'll buy a PS3! It's a system seller, a "killer app", and the PC doesn't have one of these. Thats why "you" must "promote", "sell" and "convince" a complete noob on PC gaming to the point he purchased an over hyped, over priced, and overrated PC case. Then you mocked his purchase after he did it. It's a damn shame. So no, you shouldn't be surprised, and neither am I.

Quote:
Let customer walk into store and be greeted in face with 'consoles' playing all the latest games for everyone to gather around and try - But let 'Gaming PCs' be put to the back of the store without even being switched on and having any demos playing. Then scratch head and wonder why they're not selling.
You can't switch something on thats not there. "Where is it?"


http://kotaku.com/5181300/onlive-mak...sis-on-your-tv
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 10:15   #45
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The Noisy Retreat

I was hoping you would try to come with some response a little bit better than the ones above, so that I could have a bit more of a challenge. But you failed.

So here's the deal

I will now lay in silence and watch your predictable response (waits for dog to return with bone).

I will filter out all the predictable 'noise' and see if there's any valid argument under the smokescreen from you that's worthy of a response.

That means any mention of an aftermarket kickstand (hehe) will be filtered out as wasted noise based on no facts.

Any other highly-predictable noisy response such as: "I am not the one retreating - you are. Because I spoke last and you didn't respond. Boo hoo" will be filtered out.

Then we will see what we're left with ... MEH ...


The truth is undeniable

So far, the best arguments we have had above are: -

Quote from Tron - "Killzone 2 (sold 2 million) - an over-hyped PS3 exclusive game that advertized 24/7 on national TV. Not bad. Crysis (sold 1.5 million) - Considering the PC hardware specs required, and the fact that PC gaming is a kind of "hidden, underground way to game", Crysis (the PC exclusive with almost zero advertizing) sold extremely well."

Now let's analyze your response, which was, quote Warrior "It (Killzone 2) totally outsold an overhyped, and overrated PC exclusive game, that recieved 12 months of continuous hype, that totally disappointed it's user base and sent it developer running for the cover of console development. Not bad? Nah, it was easy."

Ask yourselft this question. Be serious now, be serious .. Was that a valid answer meant to disprove the point that Crysis outsold Killzone in terms of the relative rate of sales to the money the publisher spent on advertizing Killzone round the clock over the world on expensive TV ads targeted at millions of gamers and potential gamers? Be serious now.

Scratch your head and think about it carefully ...

You mentioned that Crysis was hyped 12 months leading up to its release. But you failed to mention two important points: 1) What type of hype was it? Was it TV ads to millions? No. I suppose that's why most of the gaming public who are interested in hardcore games of the same genre of Crysis didn't know of its existence. Exactly, because it was only hyped on Crytek's own developer website, and the PC section of a few trailer sites, and on some PC enthusiast forums. 2) Killzone 2 also had the same type of 'hype' during 12 months leading up to its release. So try to smokescreen yourself out of this one. Considering the general lack of public exposure that Crysis had, it should never have sold as well as it did. Now that hurts doesn't it? RETREAT !

Another of your arguments go like this: -

Tron said - "You mentioned how Gaming PCs are not selling in your local stores."

Warriors attempt at responding was - "You want a gaming desktop, then you go online or build it yourself."

So tell me Warrior, do you seriously think that your response actually answered the point I was originally making, or is this another of your attempts at talking just for the sake of showing that you have managed to respond.

Let's take a closer in-depth look at your response: -

You originally tried to prove that PC gaming is dying and nobody wants to buy prebuilt gaming PCs in their local stores.

I then said I am not surprised because those stores are not advertizing the gaming PCs properly. So it's no wonder they are not selling.

Your response to that is, "You want a gaming desktop, then you go online or build it yourself." - huh !

You also later said that hardware doesn't sell games and the PC has it the wrong way round.

So according to you, games sell hardware. I'm so glad you said that.

So using your own logic, you would not fail to understand that if all the stores greet the customer as they enter the store with consoles playing demos of Call Of Duty, yet the Gaming PC is switched off and left at the back of the store for people just to stand there and marvel over it's awesome looks. Then read the specs and use their imagine of how good it could be. No 'call Of Duty' game is playing to sell the hardware. If games sell hardware, then the PC should be running a game. If it's not even switched on, and PC games (minus one game W.O.W.) are seldom advertized on TV to the general public, then What does your own logic conclude.

You can't handle the facts that prove that PC gaming is a "hidden, underground way to game".

Any mention of a console gamer getting interested in PC gaming, your response to that is: "Oh, they must have been mislead or something". So according to you, it is not possible for PC gaming to sell unless someone is 'tricked' into it.

You also think that PC gaming cannot sell itself in equal situations where it has a side-by-side level public exposure alongside consoles. An example would be for PC World stores to have Gaming PCs at the shop entrance beside the consoles playing games like Call Of Duty and Just Cause 2.

Why would YOU fear this? Hmm I wonder...

Is it because you know that a potential buyer will look at a side by side comparison of the ultra sharp resolution of the PC version versus the 'upscaled' console version?

Or is it because the Playstation 3's lack of processing power to use a suitable amount of anti-aliasing samples and rid the screen of the noticeable jaggies?

Or is it because the customer will notice a wider range of peripherals on the PC platform, such as keyboard & mouse or gamepad controller to suit the whole family's needs?

Is it because they may notice the PC version seems to be running a smoother framerate, such as 60 solid fps versus the same game on console running at 25 to 30 fps with the occasional infamous console slowdown?

You see, this is how the PC sells itself when only given the same exposure that consoles are given.

The facts are undeniable: PC gaming is a "hidden, underground way to game"
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 10:46   #46
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Hey tron, let's wait till he replies to my rebuttals..

Then we stop since this is basically post pumping.
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 12:55   #47
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yaay
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 23:43   #48
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Originally Posted by Elton View Post
Hey tron, let's wait till he replies to my rebuttals..

Then we stop since this is basically post pumping.
Why wait, stop now. I replied
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Old 9th Apr 2010, 23:55   #49
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Not to my post you didn't. XD
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