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Old 2nd Jun 2010, 02:54   #1
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Project: OSIDIAS - Carbon fiber SFF! (Temporary thread derail... Oct. 24th)

Well, here it goes guys. After more than a year of planning, I've decided to officially to start Project OSIDIAS. Granted, I still have other projects I'm still working on, but I don't want to delay this any longer. I can't promise daily updates, but I have a feeling you all will keep motivated to keep my work as updated as possible.

OSIDIAS will take everything I've learned from my Rogue project, and double it, in both scope and ambition. I've got some pretty unique things I'll be attempting here, and I've got no assurances that everything will work out as I've planned. That doesn't matter though, as I enjoy the challenges of problem solving on the fly. Even though at this point, almost every detail of the case is planned, there are still going to be things I decide to change. However, due to the way the case is designed, there are certain things that must remain set in stone. The overall exterior of the case and the carbon fiber shell for example.

So, where do we begin? Well, for those that may not have been following along up until this point, this video gives the best project overview. If you've got 20 minutes to spare, this should catch you up to speed. You can also read up on my planning thread here.

Now, although this is the first official post of the project, I've only got a few pics to show you. Don't worry, I've got more incoming, but I this should get things started.

This case will be the first time I move away from aluminum as my primary construction material. There will still be plenty of it in this case, but I figured it was time for something more exotic. That's where carbon fiber comes in to the picture. Actually, carbon fiber, as well as a carbon fiber/kevlar blend. The carbon fiber will be placed around molds that I'm currently building, and them vacuum bagged. This is a proven technique for manufacturing, but the first time I'll be attempting it. There aren't many computer mods made from CF, let alone molded as in what I'm trying, but that's where the fun part comes in! I've got to give full credit to MKmods for his advice and input regarding working with carbon fiber. With any luck I'll not end up with a very expensive mess on my hands...

I mentioned having to make the molds, and that's where the following pictures pick up. Thanks to the help of my Romaxx CNC machine, I was able to accurately cut out a few pieces of the OSIDIAS core. These pieces will sit in the center, while an aluminum 'clam-shell' sits around it. After the carbon fiber and vacuum bagging, the idea is to push the center core out, and then remove the shell from the inside. This will leave a solid CF case, from which I will make the needed cuts.

Here are the blank pieces of MDF ready for the Romaxx CNC.



After the CNC cut...





And finally, I've got a stack of them.



Next up, we've got the core assembly!
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Old 2nd Jun 2010, 14:36   #2
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subbd
Glad to have you aboard!

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Originally Posted by Gtek View Post
I just ordered some styrofoam blocks for my next project molds. But I chose the cheaper, fiberglass way...

good luck with CF!
Thanks man! I think I'm more concerned about things like the resin drying properly than working with the CF itself. It would be costly if I screwed up, but that's part of why I'm making a mold I can reuse. Just in case...

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I am with disturbed13. Subbed. I would double-sub if I could.

Good luck craig!
Thanks! Just sub on every forum in which I post. That should keep you busy for a while.

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Awesome! Been waiting for your next project to officially start. I'm grabbing a front row seat this time!
Thanks Brian!

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Score, I can't wait to see more
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I am psyched to see this happen!
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*subbed*
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WOOOHOOOO!!!!!
I appreciate the enthusiasm guys! This is what keeps me motivated and moving forward!
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Old 2nd Jun 2010, 17:05   #3
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OH GOD OH GOD
i've been waiting for this for so long

good luck ! can't wait to see more
Thanks! It has been a while, hasn't it?

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whoot
i was the first
Lol, somebody has to be.

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Sounds like this is going to be very impressive!
Thank you! I try and aim high. The fun part is trying to live up to my crazy ideas.

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Honestly, I saw your name attached to a project log and just subscribed because it's the right thing to do.
Haha, thanks for the kind words.

So, are you guys ready for another update?

My last post left off with the cut MDF pieces for the core of the case. What I needed now was some simple way to fasten those pieces together, while still providing strength. I went round and round with possibilities until I decided on the following method. It all started with a trio of 22mm holes courtesy of the Romaxx.



Thanks to the CNC's accuracy and repeatability, I ended up with 6 pieces just like this.



With the first piece laying down, I tapped 3 sections of PVC pipe into the holes. The fit was just tight enough that there was no movement once in place, but taps with a hammer could still allow any needed adjustment.



Now finally, here is the assembled core. It's lightweight, yet very strong. The PVC pipe not only serves to hold the structure together, it also has a secondary purpose. Since the carbon fiber will be vacuum bagged, the pipe will allow for pressure equalization between the front and rear of the mold.



With the core done, I'll be moving on to the 2 part aluminum shell that fits around it. Thanks for reading!
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Old 2nd Jun 2010, 19:24   #4
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I just realized that I DID double sub (For those that don't know, Craig maintains his own forums)

Incidentally, you don't have to ask if we are ready for another update Craig - we are, even if you post them every hour
Lol, well, you are all set then. (While I do maintain a forum dedicated to SFF modding, I'll not go out of my way to pimp it here. Although I'll say this... Losias always gets the updates first. )

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This looks like it is going to be a fun show to watch.
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Since everibody seems so excited I join the fun. Great start.
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This will be fun and I'll be watching!
Welcome to the fun guys!
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 05:04   #5
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Right-o. That's why I dropped the ever-so-slight plug (I didn't linky)
Lol, nice and subtle.

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Wow, you've started Craig! Great, this is going to be so much fun and very informative.
I'll be watching the CF work very closely. Good luck.
Thanks mate! I do appreciate the encouragement!

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Originally Posted by disturbed13 View Post
huh?
the core isnt done
theres no carbon fiber play
i wanna see carbon fiber splinters , just kidding
in all seriousness be very careful with the CF
and if you do get a CF splinter in you hand
the only way to remove it would be to have it cut out
if you try to just pull it back out it will break into more splinters = more pain
(ive read just way too many horror stories on Archery forums from guys flexing their CF arrow shafts and picking up a CF splinter. If they dont when they shoot the arrow will fly down range in an erratic manner. Which is the most frighting thing in the world.)
Well, the core of the mold is done. Lol. The rest is coming soon.

I'm not to worried about splintering during the molding process. I might have issues when I go to cut the CF however. I've got to take some pretty hefty precautions because of the dust and debris that will be flying around. I know that the end result will be worth it though, as nothing looks like real CF.
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 06:03   #6
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Can't wait to watch this unfold.
It's gonna be epic~!
Oh, the pressure! I'll try not to let anyone down.

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Subbed to the crazy man's crazy cf project.
Lol, thanks.
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 06:04   #7
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With the core of the mold done, it's time to get some aluminum wrapped around it. It's a pretty simple concept, but I need perfect execution. The aluminum needs to fit the MDF perfectly, as it ultimately will determine the shape of the carbon fiber on top of it.

I'm starting by using some AC Ryan 1mm sheets that I had lying around. I've had these for quite some time courtesy of the Rogue project's bit-tech Mod of the Month win almost 2 years ago already. I figured it was time to put them to use.



One of the newer pieces of equipment in my shop is this metal brake. I've retired the little 18" unit I had, and moved up in the world. To say that it's a huge improvement, is understating the obvious. So, I marked out the aluminum, and slid it in place for the first bend.



A second bend later, and things are looking good!



An additional 4 bends brought me to this.



A quick test fit, and it was looking pretty good. Well, good enough to move on to the other side. At least for the moment...



I made the second panel, and after evaluating it's fit, I decided to remake the first one. Ultimately I just wasn't happy enough with the way it fit the contours of the MDF core. It couldn't have been more than a single millimeter off in the way that it fit one of the edges, but it was still too much for me. I sometimes tend to set standards for myself that seem unreasonable, but when something is bugging me, I just can't let it go. So, the red panel is gone, and it's been replaced with blue and green...



Since I was pretty happy with the fit of the new panels, I now needed to get them marked and cut to fit. I need perfectly flush mating on the top and bottom joints, and I'll cover that in the next update.

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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 14:29   #8
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oh
now im beggenning to see
the woven carbon fiber dress wearing goddess some have called OSIDIAS
others will call
amazing


okay maybe not that crazy
Lol, too funny.

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I'VE WAITED SO LONG FOR THIS THREAD! good to see you've made a start Craig not much can be said other than I cant wait for this to get into full swing!
Thanks man! Yes, I've finally committed myself to the project. No more delays! I think some thought this thing was vaporware.
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 15:27   #9
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Subscribed....
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Oh man, I love sff = I love this! Sub'd!
Welcome to the fray guys!
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 18:21   #10
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That's what she said!


Sorry Craig, had to do it.
Lol, I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

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I've just read the rogue thread and it is impressive congrat's.
And nice bending.
That had to take a little time. I appreciate it!

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I thought I'd seen some ridiculous things on bit-tech in the month or so I've been paying attention to the modding community - but this takes the crown!

WOW!

You have the honour of being the first thread I've ever subbed, and I can't wait for the next update!
Oh wow, thanks! That's mighty high praise indeed! I'm glad you think this is worthy of a sub. This whole forum is filled with some amazing projects, so I know you'll be subbing to others as well.
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 19:59   #11
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Looking good. Shame about the red panel though, I rather preferred it over the green and blue ones. Still nice work.
If it's any consolation, the red panel looked pretty pink in person.

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Originally Posted by skreenname View Post
Those bends are exquisite.
Thank you. I wasn't sure what to expect before I started. I used a micrometer and triple checked all my measurements before committing to a bend. I knew I had to nail it perfectly.

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I'd just like to say, IT'S ABOUT D*MN TIME!!!

-and I'm loving it already.
-but you shouldn't tease people for over a year. It can drive them to shoot Reagan or something...
Lol, I was starting to cringe every time someone asked when I was going to start. I'd always say 'soon', and then have some sort of delay. Well, no longer! Hahaha!
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 22:37   #12
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this build al ready hits the upper eschalon (sp?) in modding
it ranks right up there with Promethus by langer
and i am extremely excited to see exactly how all of this turns out
and how everything will co-exhist with each other all in one small flippin box
it should be great
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Agreed. MOTY is going to be so hard to decide...
I appreciate the kind words guys, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Lol. I've only got a few pieces of MDF and aluminum here.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 04:33   #13
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I'm sure MDPC has already been alerted to this project.
Lol, you guys are gonna give me an inflated ego.

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Nice to see it started Craig! The only thing is I know this is going to take foooreeeeeveeeeerr to complete due to the sheer ambition and complexity of it.
Also may I add... I think sir, that you are utterly mad.

Now, is anyone selling a time machine?

-Ash
Thanks Ash! Yeah, I'm not even going to guess how long this will take me. I'm guessing the wiring will take the most time. There will be a ton of touch contacts in here for the electrical.

There's nothing wrong with a little madness. It makes the world a much more fun place to be!

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hes so humble
that speaks volumes about his personality
I think I once said in my Rogue log that I'm just a guy with a Dremel... and a dream. Lol. Cheesy, huh? I just do what I do for fun, and I get to watch the awesomeness of others too. There's really nothing like the bit-tech community.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 04:34   #14
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Haha, there's nothing like the smell of a warm Dremel on a beautiful Thursday night... With my last update, I was ready to trim the top of the aluminum shell down to size. A few minutes of cutting and filing left me with a prefect fit. It's absolutely straight with no gaps.



Now it was time to do the same thing on the bottom. I always mark first with either a pencil or fine point Sharpie, and then follow up with tape. When I cut, I get as close to the tape as possible, then finish up with a file. I find that it's easier to follow the edge of the tape, than it is any regular line.





Once again, after cutting...



Okay, so what's next? With the aluminum shell done, I've got to prep for layering on the carbon fiber. Since I'll have multiple layers basically rolled on the mold, I needed an easy way to apply the CF. The following method is what I came up with. I've got a pair of sawhorses and a piece of aluminum channel through the center pipe on the mold. This will allow me to roll the mold in to any position, yet the square planes of the channel means that it won't roll away when I don't want it to.



Now let's take a look at my box of goodies from Aerospace Composites. I've got a vacuum generator, check valve, associated vacuum bags, and peel ply. I'll be using all this to ensure as flawless a finish as possible.



At this point I decided to do a small resin test. I've seen far to many instances where resin doesn't set, and I want to make sure I've got a workable ratio. The last thing I need is a mess on my hands. Up next, the fun part!

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Old 4th Jun 2010, 14:54   #15
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Hope the Carbon-Fiber comes out well
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*foaming, foaming, foaming at the mouth
carbon fiber
*faint
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Originally Posted by stonedsurd View Post
Got me on the edge of my seat. That CF looks so hot
You know, the CF is really distracting for me. I find that every time I unroll it, I just can't help but stare at it. There's a quality about it that you can't capture in a picture.

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Originally Posted by nlancaster View Post
Craig, you indicated that you were going to vacuum bag the carbon fiber onto the mold. Wont the aluminum bow inwards from the pressure?
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Originally Posted by Dark~3nergy View Post
Awesome craig, it's nice to see it come alive !

I was thinking the same as nlancaster, maybe you should fill up the empty space between the mdf parts with something.
I'm not that concerned about it. Even though I'm using 1mm aluminum, there's only about 4cm between the MDF pieces on the core. It should take quite a bit more vacuum than I'll be able to give it to make it bow.

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Wow that's some classy work already. Those bends look perfect.
Thanks Attila. Those are some pretty high compliments coming from an aluminum master such as yourself.

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Carbon fiber...
I wanna use carbon fiber too now. D:
Go for it man!

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Great idea with the Carbon Fiber. I thought about it for a long time in the middle past of this decade. I know mold creation in room temperature can be done with Carbon Fiber, though I was told that when Carbon Fiber was placed in a mold under Temperature and Pressure it brought out it special properties that it is known for???!!!!!

Do you think your Carbon Fiber will be "brittle" if not put under Heat and Pressure??

Nice Worklog so far, I'll be watching.
Thanks. I don't think it will be brittle. I took a look at the small test piece I made last night, and it turned out 95% okay. There's still a very, very slight tack to it. I'd say I might need a little more hardener in the mix, but I don't see anything that would indicate brittleness of any kind.

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That's what the mdf center is for.
Exactamundo!
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 15:14   #16
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Are you planning to fasten the aluminum skin to the MDF before using it as a mold for the carbon fiber? I was wondering whether there was a need to fasten the seams on the top and bottom together. Or will the vacuum bag pull the two pieces together without causing an overlap or an opening that would permit resin to squeeze through?
The MDF won't be fastened to the skin in any way. The fit is perfect (luckily). I will use a small strip of tape on both the top and bottom seams to prevent resin from leaking through. The tape will be thin enough not to cause any ridge in the finished product.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 21:16   #17
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It looks amazing anyway
I didn't understand how you keep in place the CF once you turn the mold to cover the other side
Thanks! The resin will act almost like an adhesive when applied to the CF and the mold. It won't fall off when I rotate.

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Nice start mate! Looking forward to see more from this project
Thanks as always mate!
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Old 5th Jun 2010, 00:30   #18
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I have done some vacuum bagging and you will, almost certainly, get some bowing in between your MDF forms. Just get some cheap white foam and fill the space in and you will avoid buckling of the aluminum.

Just for a test, put your vacuum bag around your existing setup and pull it down. check if there is any buckling, I could be wrong.
I do know that it takes quite a bit of force to have any deflection by hand. I'll bag it beforehand just to doublecheck though. Good idea.

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so how will you get it off of the mold?
are you going to grease it or something?
I'll be using a mold release wax. The other option is to wrap the mold with some of the peel ply that I have. Either method would work, but the wax would be the easiest.
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Old 5th Jun 2010, 23:00   #19
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OMG

CARBON FIBRE?!

How much are u going to fork out on this case?!

and im subbing this for sure (first sub yay )
Yeah, good old CF.

Well, the cost is something that has been asked about quite a bit. Granted, carbon fiber isn't cheap, but to build the case out of aluminum would have been pricey too. I would rather spend and extra $100 or two, to make something infinitely more exotic. However, it's not just that the material can be costly, it also raises the stakes for errors. If I were to screw up the case shell alone, well, that's $150 I'll never get back... I've never been one to take the easy route, and a few extra dollars in the grand scheme of things seemed pretty justifiable. I guess the end result will tell the story.

Also, for those of you ever so patiently waiting for an update... I'm composing one right now. It'll hit Losias first, and then here. I won't update any place else until tomorrow night, since I'm actually out of town right now. I just wanted to give my bit-tech friends a little love!
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Old 5th Jun 2010, 23:35   #20
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craigbru has yet to learn the way of the Dremelcraigbru has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Ready guys?

Well, working with the carbon fiber was an interesting experience. I got completely prepped and ready to go last night, so that I could start wrapping first thing this morning. I'll admit to being a bit nervous. I didn't have any room for error, and with my OCD about having things perfect, the pressure was on.

I woke up this morning, headed to the shop, and cranked up the music. A little Zune Pass with Breaking Benjamin as the starting point, and things were underway! What you'll see here is the mold ready to go, with the carbon fiber strips sitting on a tube right behind it. This would allow me unroll the CF onto the mold with minimal handling.



It was now time to mix up the resin. I was using a marine grade clear epoxy with a 109 medium hardener. This stuff has a pot life of about 30 minutes, so there was no time to do anything but get underway. With the resin mixed I was on the clock. I slipped on my rubber gloves and hit the mold with a layer of resin from a 4" lint-free roller. The first layer of CF was on soon after.

I continued wrapping and rolling, taking extra care not to deform or stretch the CF in any way. I also had to be sure that all the corners had the fiber nestled in them without issues. I thought I was making good time until I went to apply a little more resin, and the roller started to pull up on the CF. Crap! That meant my resin was hardening. Had it really been 30 minutes already? Well, it didn't matter. I couldn't do anymore at this point. I needed to wrap peel ply around it and get it bagged. I still had one layer to go, but there was no way I could get it on without causing serious issues. So, bag it, I did...



I smoothed the bag out a little and left it under vacuum for about 2 hours.



Now, aren't you all excited to see what's next? Yeah, I am too, but I had to head out of town for the rest of the weekend. The next update will likely be on Monday.

So, overall, the experience wasn't as bad as I thought it might be, but I was cutting it close with the resin cure time. I also know I'll have a few ridges in the resin from the bagging process, but that's really not an issue right now. I can sand and add more resin. In addition, I'll likely go ahead and add the last layer of missing fiber. I'll update early next week guys!
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Originally Posted by disturbed13
'to cram everything in the box, you must think outside the box'
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