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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:31   #1
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Apple launches HTML 5 demo site

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/20...-5-demo-site/1
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:36   #2
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It does look great. But it seems to me that Apple are trying to take over the market that Adobe has, this is a standard case of hostile marketing.

And if your a Ipad/phone user you are not going to have a choice but hope that this catches on.

I'd like to see a truce to end this annoying confrontation.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:46   #3
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Apple's stance on Flash support (or lack thereof!) is pretty annoying. I know it's a free market (kind of), however it does seem as though Apple are being a little immature.

Nonetheless, it's nice to see a HTML5 site. I know that HTML5 probably won't be supported mainstream (i.e. via Internet Explorer) for many years yet (based on its CSS implementation timeline), although it's good to see this site regardless.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:50   #4
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It's about more than just "screw you flash", IMHO.

HTML 5 and CSS3 allow developers to make standards compliant websites that look absolutely stunning without (for example) using any images.
This in turn redusces loading times of pages, bandwidth requirements, etc. It also reduces risks involved with installing plugins, etc.
It's a move to unify and open up the web.

I see too many sites every week that opted to use flash for something that could've been done in Javascript and some CSS. This means that there's excessicve loading times, bandwidth requirements, and a plugin that chews up my system resources that could all be avoided.
Most of these sites have also never heard of "Graceful degradation" - it's "Flash or GTFO"

Flash has a place in the world and on the web, but HTML5 and CSS3 should be the tools used for web layouts in the future. Not Flash.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:58   #5
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It worked fine for me in Chrome on Windows 7. Most probably won't run in Firefox, simply because Firefox is missing quite a few of the HTML 5 features that Chrome and Safari support, iirc.

EDIT: Oops, my bad. It doesn't work. This, however, does: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/

It's the same thing as far as I can see.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:58   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentAnat
...HTML 5 and CSS3 allow developers to make standards compliant websites that look absolutely stunning without (for example) using any images...

I see too many sites every week that opted to use flash for something that could've been done in Javascript and some CSS. This means that there's excessicve loading times, bandwidth requirements, and a plugin that chews up my system resources that could all be avoided. Most of these sites have also never heard of "Graceful degradation" - it's "Flash or GTFO"

Flash has a place in the world and on the web, but HTML5 and CSS3 should be the tools used for web layouts in the future. Not Flash.
Couldn't agree more. Flash is a scourge 99% of the time - 1% of the time you get something cool that really would have been impractical-to-impossible with CSS/JS/HTML, but the rest is just bad.

To clarify - when you say "without using any images", you of course mean using images for presentational things like drop shadows, rounded corners, and the like. Obviously you still need image files for actual images. I'm sure most people on this board will realise that, but thought I'd clarify for anyone who was bamboozled.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 11:03   #7
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If I were adobe i would just withdraw (or threaten to) all the Mac products, Mr. Jobs can then see how well mac sales go without Photoshop, illustrator etc...
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 11:05   #8
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Ive no love for adobe. Every year its one of their products that gets hacked first at that convention. As long as HTML5 is faster I honestly couldn't care if flash dies.

Ive had my browser crash so many times cause of flash plugin crashing. Shockwave is another product thats crashed multiple times a day for me.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 11:58   #9
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There's a developer link to test it out on Chrome...

Edit : never noticed it posted above.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 11:59   #10
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http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/

I expected photos of Jobs with a halo in the picture demo, damn it!
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 12:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclean007 View Post
To clarify - when you say "without using any images", you of course mean using images for presentational things like drop shadows, rounded corners, and the like. Obviously you still need image files for actual images. I'm sure most people on this board will realise that, but thought I'd clarify for anyone who was bamboozled.
100% correct.
In modern web deisgn, a lot of http requests get used for accessing stupid little resources - rounded corner images, drop shadows, gradients, border images, that kind of Jazz.

These can now be reduced, thanks to CSS3 and HTML5.
To give those that haven't got an idea some indication:
The classical "polaroids" phot gallery can be done completely using CSS3.
Video streaming without flash is a reality in HTML5
gradients, drop shadows, gloss buttons, strange geometric fonts, importing fonts for web page display are all doable. We don't need flash fro those things anymore. We need less images for those things.
Where is that not a step in the right direction for the future of the web?

It seems like Adobe doesn't like that viewpoint much, though.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 12:20   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neat69
If I were adobe i would just withdraw (or threaten to) all the Mac products, Mr. Jobs can then see how well mac sales go without Photoshop, illustrator etc...
you don't get it... jobs said it clearly that his open letter on flash was reaction to adobe's apple trashing for not supporting flash. apple decided not to use flash as there was no mobile version of flash available when iphone and even ipad was launching and to date there still is no flash on mobile. you've got flash lite which is based on flash 5/6 which means the most of the flash content won't be shown.

instead they decided to go with something what has future, which is html 5 and css3, since most of the mobile browsers are based on webkit (developed by apple and is now open source) the target audience is huge, not speaking about other browsers using webkit like chrome and safari. flash is overused, there are pages created in flash for no reason at all.

there's nothing like a war between apple and adobe, apple chose not to use flash, adobe didn't really care to create mobile version, it's just when iDevices started to be popular adobe saw that they're losing on this field since they've got no product on 50+ million devices and ppl using these devices are proof that flash is not a necessity on the web, it's not a standard.

push for html5/css3 gives developer tools to create dynamic/or eye-candy content without using cpu-heavy flash and is created using standard development tools like hyper text mark-up language, javascript and cascading style sheets.

me as a developer am looking forward for this era of web.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 12:24   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neat69
If I were adobe i would just withdraw (or threaten to) all the Mac products, Mr. Jobs can then see how well mac sales go without Photoshop, illustrator etc...
and on the other adobe soft on mac.... have you been living under the rock? adobe was lacking in terms of product development for mac platform and CS5 package is the first of their products developed using cocoa framework which is native to mac os x and they've done it after 10 years!!!!! every single release of CS package on mac was inferior to PC version. and adobe can't dump mac since it's half of their revenue although there are more copies out there on PC platform but most of them are pirated copies.

adobe is just lazy, that's all, read more about history and current products and check support pages full of complaints against the performance of adobe products on mac platform. what's worse is the fact that they've killed off the best vector/illustrating sw - Freehand when they bought macromedia.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 12:49   #14
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I tried switching my user agent but it is Safari only for a reason . Only the 360 spin worked on FF 3.63. Probably have better luck with something Webkit based if you do not have Safari.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 12:57   #15
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Was it just me or did the video play back seem choppy?

(Running on win7)
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 13:06   #16
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So, hold on...

They bat on about open standards, and then lock out all other browsers from their tech demo?!

Good work Apple. Steve, fire that PR team of yours...
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 13:09   #17
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The only thing we regularly use flash for in our agency is Video.
Considering the video demo didn't work for me in Chrome, it is a simple fact that HTML 5 will not be replacing flash in the coming years.

Forcing developers to use different technologies is completely the wrong way to go about things. We already know the disadvantages of flash, we already know how great HTML 5 will be. They are preaching to the converted.
What the large tech companies should be doing is educating users in the advantages of renewing the software they use.

Once they do that, then we can start using HTML 5
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 13:13   #18
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I'm in the HTML5 camp, personally. Of the three platforms I use regularly, Flash only works well on Windows. It's an unreliable system hog in OSX and Linux, constantly crashing and causing undue load on the CPU. The best browser at the moment for HTML5 content is Safari, even on Youtube - surprising considering it's a Google-owned site. You'd think it would be better on Chrome...

Adobe can't dump OSX without alienating the vast majority of designers. They're not going to do that. It's not as if Quark would sniff at the opportunity to take back marketshare from Indesign - same goes for Aperture and Adobe's Lightroom.

Photoshop Elements 8 on Windows is a mess. Surprisingly it is better on OSX thanks to the lack of Elements Organiser, which slows my i7 box to a crawl.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 13:29   #19
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I don't like flash. I'd be happy when it goes away forever and if this is the way it's going to happen then so be it. I just wish someone had tried to force IE out of existence in the same way.
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Old 4th Jun 2010, 13:30   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mi1ez View Post
So, hold on...

They bat on about open standards, and then lock out all other browsers from their tech demo?!

Good work Apple. Steve, fire that PR team of yours...
No. Right call made by apple there.
Disable all browsers that can't see it the way it's mean to tbe seen. It just so happens that Safari (and the webkit rendering engine) have the best implementation of CSS3 and HTML5 in general.
They're not perfect, but if i'm gouing to use HTML5 for a tech demo, i'll make sure that the tech demo looks right. The effective way of doing that (seeing that it's a TECH demo), is by saying "No" to certain browsers, rather than going "your browser doesn't support this, and thus my tech demo looks like sh*t"
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