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Old 30th Nov 2011, 02:58   #61
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great information many thanks, you will help people get what they are rightfully lawfully entitled to .
I applaud you for taking the time to put this together
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Old 7th Dec 2011, 00:17   #62
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Oddly enough my own theoretical example has bitten me in the arse as my XBOX 360 Elite Console is displaying the E74 code relating to the 'Red Ring of Death'! Luckily enough I bought this with ebuyer back in early 2008 and thus far have had nothing but a very positive response from complaining to their customer service department using the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

Strange it failed, always kept it in the vertical position so the entire console was well ventilated. No sign of problems before; after a couple of weeks without use it simply failed today when I flicked the on switch! Anyway I think I was wise enough back then to use my credit card so Section 75 will represent my fall back position if all else fails!
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Old 7th Dec 2011, 23:08   #63
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Faulty Xbox 360 Elite Console

I think this is going to be an interesting case to post about for future reference on higher value claims under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) so I'll post my trials and tribulations as they happen here. This is the story as it evolves, I'll update this particular post so the information doesn't become too dispersed! I've stripped certain information such as Invoice Numbers and Names for obvious security reasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Customer

6th December 2011

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: Faulty goods and the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)

On 28th March 2008 I bought an Xbox 360 Elite Console from you for £246.99 (Including 17.5% VAT) (Order Number XXXXXXXX) which has stopped working.

The problem is when the Xbox 360 Elite Console is switched on an E74 code is displayed on screen with a red ring circling on the front of the console. It's not possible to use the Xbox 360 Elite Console in any capacity and is not fit for purpose in this state. During normal use the Xbox 360 Elite Console has been kept in a well ventilated cabinet and was perfectly functional with no indication of failure until today when the E74 code was displayed.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller. This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements. The law also says I have six years from the date of purchase to claim damages for faulty goods.

My goods are not fit for purpose and I wish to claim a partial refund of my goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended. From the date of purchase I have had 43 full months of use from the Xbox 360 Elite Console up to todays date. I'm prepared to accept a refund of £100 that rounded up represents the remaining 29 months under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 that I have not enjoyed with my original Xbox 360 Elite Console purchase. Payment to 'My Ledger' on ebuyer.com will be acceptable and I will likely buy a replacement 250GB model making up the difference with my own money.

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days from receipt of this e-mail.

Yours faithfully,

Mr X. XXXXXXXX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebuyer

Dear Mr X. XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your contact with our Customer Support Team.

After checking your order I can see that your item is now out of the one year Ebuyer warranty period. Please contact the manufacturer who may be able to offer you a further warranty on the item.

I apologise for any inconvenience and annoyance this may have caused.

Kind Regards,

XXXXX

Ebuyer Customer Support Team



Quote:
Originally Posted by Customer

As I stated in my original message, I am not claiming under warranty but under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). For your reference I shall again reiterate the relevant passage:

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller. This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements. The law also says I have six years from the date of purchase to claim damages for faulty goods.

I am claiming damages under this law against ebuyer for a partial refund as stated in my previous message which is a more than reasonable offer. The Xbox 360 Elite Console has been maintained in excellent condition over its 3 years and 7 months of use. However since this malfunction has manifested and it is a well documented problem with the console I am well within my rights to make this claim against the original trader and I would appreciate an appropriate response.

Again this is not a claim under warranty but a claim under UK consumer law. I look forward to a full response to this and my previous message.

Regards, XXXXXXX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebuyer

Dear XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your response.

Please supply me with the following information and I can investigate into
this further.

Make and Model:
Serial number:
Order number:
Name:
Address:

Kind Regards,

XXXXX

Ebuyer Customer Support Team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Customer

Here's the information you requested.

Make and Model: Microsoft Xbox 360 Elite Console
Serial Number: XXXXXXX XXXXX
Order Number: XXXXXXXX
Name: Mr XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
Address: XX XXXXX XXXX, XXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXX, XXXX XXX

Some additional information found on the back of the Xbox 360 you might
find useful.

MFR Date: XXXX-XX-XX
Product Id: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebuyer

Dear XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your response.

I have passed your details on to the relevant department.

Please allow up to 48 business hours for correspondence.

Kind Regards,

XXXXX

Ebuyer Customer Support Team
Correspondence has now been deferred to Ebuyers 'Resolution Centre'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebuyer Resolution Centre

Dear XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX,

RE: Order - XXXXXXXX

I am writing to you today further to your letter of complaint which has been passed to me to be addressed. First of all please accept my most sincere apologies on Ebuyer’s behalf for any inconvenience that may have been caused with this issue. I can assure you this is not indicative of the usual high levels of service offered at Ebuyer.

Having looked into your query further I can advise that as per the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) you are able to have the item repaired or replaced up to 6 years. However, this only applies if you are able to provide proof that the item was purchased with an inherent fault or a fault that has occurred due to a manufacturing defect.

We will arrange for the item to be collected and returned to Ebuyer, where the item will be tested and a technician’s report created. Once this has been completed we will contact you within 7 days to advise on an outcome.

Please note: if the item is found not to have an inherent fault or manufacturing defect we will return the item back to you, this will incur a £10 delivery charge.

Please can you contact me with a suitable date and address for the collection to take place from and I will action this. We offer collections between the hours of 9am and 5pm, Monday to Friday. Please can you also provide the fault description in full for reference.


Kind Regards
XXXXX
Resolution Team
After a few exchanges simply sorting out the return of the faulty XBOX 360 Console I now have the below resolution.

Quote:
Dear XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX,

Following extensive tests by our Returns staff, this item was found to be faulty. Therefore a refund will be issued once the RMA has been closed.

As per section 9.2 of our terms and conditions and in line with the Sale of Goods Act 1979, as this item is over 6 months old you will only qualify for a proportionate refund of the original purchase price. Therefore we are unable to issue a replacement as initially requested.
I actually requested a refund in the first place! Now £98 has been credited to my ebuyer account which I am very happy about. Absolutely no problem spending money with a company that upholds amazing customer service. Remember I had owned this XBOX 360 Elite Console for 3 years and 7 months before the 'red ring of death' manifested. So I hope this one example will encourage some people not to simply bin that defunct console in the future and do some work to seek reparations.
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 00:12   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blogins View Post
I think this is going to be an interesting case to post about for future reference on higher value claims under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) so I'll post my trials and tribulations as they happen here. This is the story as it evolves, I'll update this particular post so the information doesn't become too dispersed! I've stripped certain information such as Invoice Numbers and Names for obvious security reasons.
It will be interesting indeed. Your claim that SOGA affords you six years use of an gaming console is something piqued my interest. Six years, huh? You wouldn't be confusing the time limit on taking a case to court, would you?

If I were Ebuyer, I would say that the goods were fit for purpose when they were purchased and that they have lasted a satisfactory amount of time.

Quote:
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.

So you may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did. To do this you may need an expert's report, for example from an engineer or mechanic.

Read more: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...#ixzz1ftQk2pyv
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 00:30   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp4nky View Post
It will be interesting indeed. Your claim that SOGA affords you six years use of an gaming console is something piqued my interest. Six years, huh? You wouldn't be confusing the time limit on taking a case to court, would you?

If I were Ebuyer, I would say that the goods were fit for purpose when they were purchased and that they have lasted a satisfactory amount of time.
The SOGA is relevant for six years and since this is a known fault with the Xbox 360 console accompanied by plenty of documented evidence to point out this fact then I believe there is a good case for some form a reparation. My console has been well maintained in a well ventilated clean cabinet in the vertical position so cooling is as good as it could have been. I've never actually moved it in all of those 3 years and 7 months and just yesterday it failed with the E74 code.

I expect my consoles to last for longer than that! I have a SEGA Megadrive that's over 20 years old and it's still going strong. So why shouldn't it be an expectation that more recent technology should work for at least 6 years during normal use? Incidentally I set a precedent with a previous claim through ebuyer when I claimed on a faulty Surge Protector. They applied the same equation for a refund as I have used in the case above. If they still refuse to play ball then I intend to use that as an example that they have offered a similar refund in the past for lower value goods. My question is why should it be any different for a higher ticket commodity?

I intend to investigate every avenue available to fight my case.
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 00:48   #66
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Interesting.

I got my Xbox 360 Premium (pre-HDMI connector) second hand. When it gave me the E74 RROD
I obviously couldn't go to where it was bought as it was a second hand console from a forum
seller.
I went straight to MS who, while the console wasn't even registered to me so I couldn't do it
online, re-registered it to me, and sent out a courier/box to "fix" it. They just took that and
gave me a new Xbox360 Premium (still pre-HDMI version though ).
Cost me nothing.

They don't make 'em like they used to. I still have my megadrive, SNES AND the NES. All still
work. Yet I had PS3 AND Xbox360 break on me.

p.s. WHY ISN'T THIS STICKIED =[
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 01:05   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete* View Post
I went straight to MS who, while the console wasn't even registered to me so I couldn't do it online, re-registered it to me, and sent out a courier/box to "fix" it. They just took that and gave me a new Xbox360 Premium (still pre-HDMI version though. Cost me nothing.
That's interesting, another avenue!
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 16:34   #68
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if you read the paperwork, ms actualy want you to contact them and not the seller
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 17:55   #69
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Send it to Microsoft. Pretty much everyone who's owned an Xbox has had to return if for repair/replacement, or bought another. Everyone I know anyway. My mate Dean has been pretty lucky and is only on his second (MS replaced)...lol Others I know are on their 3rd or 4th.
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 17:56   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCreedy View Post
if you read the paperwork, ms actualy want you to contact them and not the seller
If that is the case then that's excellent support from Microsoft and I applaud them. However there is no legal basis for me to claim from the manufacturer under UK law. There is framework to make a claim against the trader, so that is my first point of contact with this problem.

I'm interested to hear why people have the impression it's okay for our gadgets to fail after a handful of years of normal use? I can understand in so far as headsets and other items that can be literally worn down but when it comes to expensive phones, consoles so on and so forth that are genuinely cared for over the years, why is there a moderate backlash from consumers against making a complaint? It's just a general impression I get whenever the topic is raised in general conversation.
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 18:06   #71
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Just a quick update. I've received a more progressive e-mail from ebuyer who have asked me for some information particular to my Xbox 360 Elite Console. At least now I hope we're establishing some common ground to move my case forward. I'm impressed how well ebuyer respond to queries through their on-line system. It's praise worth giving to their credit, the only other retailer in my experience who match this would be dabs.
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 18:07   #72
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Quote:
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If that is the case then that's excellent support from Microsoft and I applaud them. However there is no legal basis for me to claim from the manufacturer under UK law. There is framework to make a claim against the trader, so that is my first point of contact with this problem.

I'm interested to hear why people have the impression it's okay for our gadgets to fail after a handful of years of normal use? I can understand in so far as headsets and other items that can be literally worn down but when it comes to expensive phones, consoles so on and so forth that are genuinely cared for over the years, why is there a moderate backlash from consumers against making a complaint? It's just a general impression I get whenever the topic is raised in general conversation.
They aren't built to last. Original PS2 had issues with the cd tracking and what-not, and standing it up like it was advertised actually made it go wrong quicker. Both me and my brother are on our second.

The xbox 360, at least the early ones, liked to chew up discs and overheat. They are disposable mate, in so far as they are built that way.

Is it ok? No it's not, but we live in an age where we throw things away rather than fix them. Where a washing machine breaks after 3 years..instead of as before they would last 3 or 4 times as long. They don't build to last. They want our money, and as the suckers we are, will buy another. That and many people don't know their rights, that they can get it replaced.

Again..why is this thread not stickied? How many times does it have to be asked for?!
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Old 8th Dec 2011, 18:15   #73
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I can understand buying a replacement but why not complain that the original broke down in the first place. If enough people stomp their little feet and shout about the problem perhaps reliability would become of greater importance in the manufacture of these goods. Of course the ultimate protest would be not to buy new! Where's the fun in that though; I want me some Gears of War 3!
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 21:06   #74
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Updated my post containing all my correspondence with Ebuyer.

My case has been escalated to Ebuyers 'Resolution Centre' and they contacted me with this e-mail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebuyer Resolution Centre

Dear XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX,

RE: Order - XXXXXXXX

I am writing to you today further to your letter of complaint which has been passed to me to be addressed. First of all please accept my most sincere apologies on Ebuyer’s behalf for any inconvenience that may have been caused with this issue. I can assure you this is not indicative of the usual high levels of service offered at Ebuyer.

Having looked into your query further I can advise that as per the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) you are able to have the item repaired or replaced up to 6 years. However, this only applies if you are able to provide proof that the item was purchased with an inherent fault or a fault that has occurred due to a manufacturing defect.

We will arrange for the item to be collected and returned to Ebuyer, where the item will be tested and a technician’s report created. Once this has been completed we will contact you within 7 days to advise on an outcome.

Please note: if the item is found not to have an inherent fault or manufacturing defect we will return the item back to you, this will incur a £10 delivery charge.

Please can you contact me with a suitable date and address for the collection to take place from and I will action this. We offer collections between the hours of 9am and 5pm, Monday to Friday. Please can you also provide the fault description in full for reference.


Kind Regards
XXXXX
Resolution Team
I'm very very impressed with this level of after sales service to say the least. Also stating the possibility of a £10 fee up front I find a great professional courtesy. I have processed returns with other retailers who have not stated the possibility of incurring engineer testing fees or return delivery charges up front and successfully disputed them. The free collection is another great example of quality service here.

I intend to argue the point that the E74 code is a well known fault that has been found to develop in earlier Xbox 360 consoles due to the nature of their design. As some of us are aware in PC technology a CPU is placed in a socket which is beneficial keeping the processor as a separate entity to the motherboard. The problem with the Xbox 360 is that it's soldered in place so that the heat generated can warp and flex the motherboard itself as I believe is the case with my console and the root cause of the problem.

Even if Ebuyer reject my claim I hope to gain a copy of the technician's report and then I shall pay for delivery of the console back to me under protest. This way I can advance my dispute using Section 75 through my credit card company and also claim a refund on this minor expense.
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Old 11th Dec 2011, 01:37   #75
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Slightly separate case for you consumerists that still involves an XBOX 360 funnily enough!

Missing my XBOX 360 and with the cousins over for Christmas wanting some Gears of War 3 mash up I decided to take advantage of a damned fine discount through Very.co.uk. I could buy an XBOX 360 4GB Console for £116 with an additional £4.95 for Saturday delivery in the AM. So I waited in today for my brand spanking new XBOX 360 and the clock kept going until past noon. Not happy with this I tracked down the local depot responsible for despatching the goods and I was given the excuse it had been securely locked up because it was deemed a high value commodity so would not be sent out today. Little confused seeing as I paid specifically for a Saturday AM delivery slot but in any case I negotiated for collection of the package in person.

The tracking information was clear to see on-line that my package had arrived at the depot at around 7:00 AM on this Saturday and that I signed for the parcel at 12:30PM the same day. There was no 'out for delivery' message. Armed with this information I complained to Very.co.uk who within an hour of sending off my e-mail replied that a full refund for the £4.95 postage would be refunded to my card within 10 days. Now that is a result and also very good service.
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Old 18th Dec 2011, 11:47   #76
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Bump to the TOP, this thread should not be 5 pages in.

And Blogins, you have PM .
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Old 11th Jan 2012, 20:09   #77
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I really don't understand why this thread hasn't been stickied.

I've bought a Asus Transformer Prime from Ebuyer, which arrived today. I'm looking to return it under the DSR, but ebuyer's returns policy is as follows:

Quote:
If you change your mind

If you have simply changed your mind about any item ordered and you wish to return it, then in line with the Distance Selling Regulations (DSR) you can do so provided you inform us of your decision within 7 working days of receipt. The item must not be used and must be 'as new' when returned to us. Once you've informed us that you wish to return goods under the DSR, you have 28 calendar days to do so, at your own expense. Once the item is received at Ebuyer.com, we'll issue a full refund for the product to your original payment method. Please note this policy has some limitations and does not apply to business customers.(The Distance Selling Regulations do not apply to @work customers or our Business customers)
I've opened the box, unwrapped the plastic around the tablet (though the keyboard dock is untouched), turned it on and updated it/downloaded apps and all that jazz. There's a reset function, so I should be able to wipe everything on the tablet, but they can't reject this because of the plastic being removed, can they?

If so, I'll have to return it as faulty. Attempting to use Bluetooth headset with the tablet kills the WiFi, so it is a legitimate fault, but would rather not have the hassle of waiting on ebuyer testing it and finding the fault etc.
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Old 14th Jan 2012, 18:55   #78
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I've opened the box, unwrapped the plastic around the tablet (though the keyboard dock is untouched), turned it on and updated it/downloaded apps and all that jazz. There's a reset function, so I should be able to wipe everything on the tablet, but they can't reject this because of the plastic being removed, can they?
That's simply packaging. As long as the original product is in new condition as it was when it was first unwrapped then it's fine to return the item. If there are any small scratches then ebuyer would have grounds to reject your claim under the DSR.
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Old 15th Jan 2012, 09:06   #79
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Thanks Blogins, it's good to know. I've ended up deciding to keep it, but all the same I'm sure it'll come in handy in the future.
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Old 17th Jan 2012, 18:46   #80
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Blogins, my situation (well, not mine exactly, but for simplicity's sake).

I bought a £200+ touch-phone online within the last 6 months, paying with credit card. It locks up and becomes unresponsive and has other such errors that mean it is clearly defective. Do Acts such as the Sales of Goods Act apply only to retailers? Or can a potential individual seller, some single person selling the product, be subject to having to refund or replace the item?

As this guy is saying he doesn't do warranties or refunds or replacements, but that we can send it back to him and then he'll charge us the specialist's fee to replace it. Obviously I could this myself without P&P charges, so I'd rather be able to get a working replacement or a refund.

Thanks
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