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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:33   #1
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EA denies Origin spies on Battlefield 3 PC players

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...lefield-3-pc/1
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:59   #2
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I thought this was well known? this puts us in termoil as PC gamers though surely, sign up to something you don't agree with (origin's EULA) and effectively financially back the only studio that's put out a ground-breaking DX11 FPS....

Or dont buy it and risk the death of high end gaming development?

I didn't realise you had to have Origin with a shop-bought copy? my plan was to buy the disc and avoid origin that way, but if that's not possible it'll have to be an -avoid- title i guess.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:00   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanu View Post
I thought this was well known? this puts us in termoil as PC gamers though surely, sign up to something you don't agree with (origin's EULA) and effectively financially back the only studio that's put out a ground-breaking DX11 FPS....

Or dont buy it and risk the death of high end gaming development?

I didn't realise you had to have Origin with a shop-bought copy? my plan was to buy the disc and avoid origin that way, but if that's not possible it'll have to be an -avoid- title i guess.
Yup, you need Origin to run the game.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:04   #4
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Soon it will transpire that for every customer Origin gains they drown a puppy.

I feel like a sellout putting my fingers in my ears and going "LAlalalalalalaal" over this origin nonsense. I normally don't buy the games if I don't like the terms, like always on DRM but by god i'm loving BF3 and I want to continue playing it.

D.I.C.E is the real victim here.
*hangs head in shame*
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:07   #5
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Being the best multiplayer FPS for as long as I can remember, you would an absolute idiot or a paranoid peadophile to not play BF3 just because of Origin.

Its actually a pretty good piece of software (if rendered somewhat obsolete by Battlelog)
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:09   #6
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despite what EA says. i'd like to know what's this sandbox mode people keep talking about? how do i run Origin in sandbox mode?
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:16   #7
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It's a bit silly to hate on BF3 to rebel against Origin, it's just a delivery platform that's been (presumably) forced by EA.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:22   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu View Post
despite what EA says. i'd like to know what's this sandbox mode people keep talking about? how do i run Origin in sandbox mode?
It's not a mode, you have to run Origin/BF3 sandboxed. A few guides are popping up on the net , one here.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:35   #9
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Kinda glad I decided to steer clear of BF3 now...

I must say though, EA has done an impressive job of turning one of my most anticipated games of the year into one I wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole with the amount of **** they think they can get away with (no mod support, woeful server browser system, compulsory Origin installation, no Steam etc. etc.).
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:36   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vo0Ds
It's a bit silly to hate on BF3 to rebel against Origin, it's just a delivery platform that's been (presumably) forced by EA.
Hi. No its not just a delivery platform unfortunately. The big issue is that in the Terms you need to agree to so that Origin would be installed, theres a whole load of stuff about pretty much accessing whatever they wanted on your drive and distributing it if they wanted amongst their partners. Heres a link http://t.co/cwoGUyW9
If they have now retracted all that nonsense, then I may actually buy BF3. Its not a case of having anything to hide, its a case of its my PC so keep your nose out.
Please correct me if Im wrong.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:46   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vo0Ds
It's a bit silly to hate on BF3 to rebel against Origin, it's just a delivery platform that's been (presumably) forced by EA.
Hi. No its not just a delivery platform unfortunately. The big issue is that in the Terms you need to agree to so that Origin would be installed, theres a whole load of stuff about pretty much accessing whatever they wanted on your drive and distributing it if they wanted amongst their partners. Heres a link http://t.co/cwoGUyW9
If they have now retracted all that nonsense, then I may actually buy BF3. Its not a case of having anything to hide, its a case of its my PC so keep your nose out.
Please correct me if Im wrong.
That part of the EULA got changed a good while back but even in it's original guise it never said that EA would be accessing whatever they wanted on your PC and sharing it with third parties. It may have been possible to interpret it that way thanks to some poor wording choices but it remained nothing more than an interpretation/guess about what EA would do.

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Originally Posted by smc8788 View Post
compulsory Origin installation, no Steam
So being forced to install Origin is bad but it'd be fine if people were forced to install Steam instead?
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:49   #12
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Reposting this from the BF3 comments thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by A clever bloke called Mitsuhiko on the reddit forums

Yay. Conspiracies. So let's see what Origin really does, shall we?
If you hook process monitor onto Origin you will not see Origin scanning anything, independently of how long you use it. So what triggered the OP's screenshot?
Origin on installation will try to find games installed on your harddrive and automatically register them within Origin. It does that in a couple of different ways:
It reads the windows games registry
It looks for games in Program Files
It looks for games in ProgramData (where, for unknown reason the OP's SMS and tax software are storing the data instead of the user profile where that data should go!)
it reads the xfire config if it finds one for games
If you look at the screenshot closely you will see that it does not actually read any files. Instead it looks for their existence and recursively walks the directory. It does not read any of your files, at least not judging from this screenshot or anything I have found on my machine.
Lastly if you monitor the network traffic that Origin causes you will see that it does not transmit anything of value to EA. So far I have not seen anything bug login credentials being submitted.
But it's always so much more fun to assume that software is inherently evil. You can hook a syscall monitor on any application and you will see that it operates all over the drive. That's not something unique to Origin. Steam will do the same if you click the "add non steam game" button.
//EDIT: something I forgot: I think people should not run any sysinternals tools without a basic understanding of what they do or at least not jump to conclusions..
/concur.

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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:50   #13
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Originally Posted by Krazeh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vo0Ds
It's a bit silly to hate on BF3 to rebel against Origin, it's just a delivery platform that's been (presumably) forced by EA.
Hi. No its not just a delivery platform unfortunately. The big issue is that in the Terms you need to agree to so that Origin would be installed, theres a whole load of stuff about pretty much accessing whatever they wanted on your drive and distributing it if they wanted amongst their partners. Heres a link http://t.co/cwoGUyW9
If they have now retracted all that nonsense, then I may actually buy BF3. Its not a case of having anything to hide, its a case of its my PC so keep your nose out.
Please correct me if Im wrong.
That part of the EULA got changed a good while back but even in it's original guise it never said that EA would be accessing whatever they wanted on your PC and sharing it with third parties. It may have been possible to interpret it that way thanks to some poor wording choices but it remained nothing more than an interpretation/guess about what EA would do.
These are the terms below, have they been changed?:
You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:53   #14
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So much for EA changing. Only thing they changed was into a second rate activison (who's games I currently boycott). Was looking forward to getting BF3 but guess I won't risk it and just avoid. I'm already pissed at them getting kicked off steam and its probably because Valve didn't allow this sort of practice.
Who wants to bet mass effect 3 will be the same?
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:55   #15
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why can't the gaming companies and publishers just come together and provide ONE platform for use on PC, Mac, Xbox, PS3, Nintendo etc etc etc :/ guess I'm a democratic communist or something
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:57   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
Reposting this from the BF3 comments thread

/concur.

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Excellent post from that Mitsuhiko fella. Thanks for posting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
These are the terms below, have they been changed?:
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javaman View Post
So much for EA changing. Only thing they changed was into a second rate activison (who's games I currently boycott). Was looking forward to getting BF3 but guess I won't risk it and just avoid. I'm already pissed at them getting kicked off steam and its probably because Valve didn't allow this sort of practice.
Who wants to bet mass effect 3 will be the same?
They didn't get kicked off Steam. They refused to use Steam thanks to Valve's policies on DLC. Policies which can be proven to exist due to the fact they have also caused the developer of Minecraft to refuse to use Steam to sell Minecraft. As for whatever "practice" you're claiming Valve wouldn't allow them to do you should take a look at the post Baz has posted which does a great job of explaining what Origin actually does in terms of accessing your PC.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:59   #17
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Care to post the new Terms or an official link please?
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:14   #18
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Care to post the new Terms or an official link please?
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_9.16.11.pdf
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:18   #19
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The problem is, unlike Steam, which only scans your computer if you ask it to - either to add non-Steam games to your list, or by taking part in the Steam hardware survey - Origin appears to scan your system during installation at sends information based on what it finds, before it's even shown you the EULA which tells you that it will do so.

So it fits pretty solidly into my definition of malware/spyware - doing something I potentially don't want it to do, before it's even asked me, potentially resulting in a privacy violation.

Also, if EA want to calm this storm, I would suggest that they tell us exactly what Origin uploads - and to whom. Of course, that would only calm the storm if Origins data uploads are completely benign... and given EA's reticence to detail what Origin is doing and who it's giving data to... I can understand the concern.

...

While Sandboxing might work, how effective is it?
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:24   #20
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Care to post the new Terms or an official link please?
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_9.16.11.pdf
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it still is not clear what Applications and Software it monitors. Its all rather vague and my trust in EA is pretty low since this all started. Until things become clearer I'll not be installing anything requiring Origin.
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