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Old 9th Dec 2011, 17:41   #41
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 18:04   #42
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Test driver? Well I'd forgotten that, It's like seeing Gary Paffet doing interviews. How much time do they get to spend in real cars, were they at the Abu Dhabi test?

Do you know what the problem today with all these drivers is? Well I think that, not enough of them are dying!

huh, you sir have lowered my expectations of this forum, what a nasty and small minded thing to say
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 19:25   #43
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What a ridiculous and insensitive thing to say.
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huh, you sir have lowered my expectations of this forum, what a nasty and small minded thing to say
I'm sorry that anyone takes offense to that.

Call me facetious, whimsical, flippant, arrogant, <Edit r1:>sarcastic, cynical, crude</Edit r1>, an arse, I'll even take <Edit r1>knut cant</Edit r1>. I'll call myself that last one when sometimes driving on the road, after doing something out of frustration that, I didn't really want to do. However I am not callous.

My personal experiences with danger in motorsport are; watching my brother high-side, breaking his wrist (I had time to look away, twice). Seeing a driver get knocked unconscious and his leg going limp on the throttle whilst in neutral, this being the scariest thing I have ever witnessed. Later I heard the news that a similar thing happened, but this driver was still circulating at full speed, it took another driver to get in front and break for the two cars to stop it. http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/ne...rama_1_3050526. Thankfully this stuff is as bad as I've personally known.

I remember, and never take names in vein. With great regard I hold the lives of many drivers, and lets not forget spectators and marshals either. I wish that they were still around. Most of all I reserve a special place in my mind for the venerable Scottish farmer James Clark.

Another thing, when I was 10 and at a karting birthday party, I pooed my pants so much at the thought of driving a kart, so much so that I wouldn't participate. The fellas at the place encourage me, but I refused. You see I'm more like Phil Hill, driving is very serious to me.

You exist on the other side of a cultural divide from me. My friends and I have this complex attitude to death. There has been a BBC documentary on the subject of the unusual way that drivers think. <Edit r1:> , It was a long time ago so couldn't get information for yous. It featured a psychologist that did research around the 70's. I feel I may have over stated that. Here is Graham Hill, see points around 3.5, and 9 minutes. And Dr Keith Johnsgard, uses "psychopathic" when describing drivers.</Edit r1>. What my comment was (and it is only a comment neither suggestion nor demand) is that there are many great drivers facing a bottleneck, and was simply trying to liken that to the past. I have been deeply saddened by the passing of drivers in recent years, the first one I remember is a karter at Silverstone. More recently (I have deliberately chosen something slightly obscure to 'Joe' public here) was an F2 driver at Brands Hatch.

So then it boils down to my worldly attitude that nothing is above laughing about (Jester), and a special attitude towards life and death that I know isn't exclusive to me. Ridiculous? <Edit r1:> Yes, see my characteristics at the top. and as such, should be disregard.</Edit r1>. Insensitive? Well I am an INTJ. <Edit r1>I can not even get all the way through this without being completely serious</Edit r1> Nasty? There was no malice to my words. Small minded? Only on the surface. What I said was a world away from YouTube comments, one of the nicest being "lol professional car racing.  Pointless death.". I hope I have demonstrated the underlying meaning sufficiently to change your minds.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 20:15   #44
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Personally I think the problem is more the fact mediocre drivers are keeping their seats purely because they bring a wheelbarrow full of sponsorship money with them, sometimes at the expense of a promising young driver.
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Old 9th Dec 2011, 21:02   #45
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Originally Posted by Jester_612 View Post
I'm sorry that anyone takes offense to that.

Call me facetious, whimsical, flippant, arrogant, an arse, I'll even take knut. I'll call myself that last one when sometimes driving on the road, after doing something out of frustration that, I didn't really want to do. However I am not callous.

My personal experiences with danger in motorsport are; watching my brother high-side, breaking his wrist (I had time to look away, twice). Seeing a driver get knocked unconscious and his leg going limp on the throttle whilst in neutral, this being the scariest thing I have ever witnessed. Later I heard the news that a similar thing happened, but this driver was still circulating at full speed, it took another driver to get in front and break for the two cars to stop it. http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/ne...rama_1_3050526. Thankfully this stuff is as bad as I've personally known.

I remember, and never take names in vein. With great regard I hold the lives of many drivers, and lets not forget spectators and marshals either. I wish that they were still around. Most of all I reserve a special place in my mind for the venerable Scottish farmer James Clark.

Another thing, when I was 10 and at a karting birthday party, I pooed my pants so much at the thought of driving a kart, so much so that I wouldn't participate. The fellas at the place encourage me, but I refused. You see I'm more like Phil Hill, driving is very serious to me.

You exist on the other side of a cultural divide from me. My friends and I have this complex attitude to death. There has been a BBC documentary on the subject of the unusual way that drivers think, It was a long time ago so couldn't get information for yous. It featured a psychologist that did research around the 70's. What my comment was (and it is only a comment neither suggestion nor demand) is that there are many great drivers facing a bottleneck, and was simply trying to liken that to the past. I have been deeply saddened by the passing of drivers in recent years, the first one I remember is a karter at Silverstone. More recently (I have deliberately chosen something slightly obscure to 'Joe' public here) was an F2 driver at Brands Hatch.

So then it boils down to my worldly attitude that nothing is above laughing about (Jester), and a special attitude towards life and death that I know isn't exclusive to me. Ridiculous? Yes, see my characteristics at the top. Insensitive? Well I am an INTJ. Nasty? There was no malice to my words. Small minded? Only on the surface. What I said was a world away from YouTube comments, one of the nicest being "lol professional car racing.  Pointless death.". I hope I have demonstrated the underlying meaning sufficiently to change your minds.
I would argue that my attitude toward death is probably based on the fact that I, both my brothers, my mother and father and uncle all serve/have served in the armed forces. I understand where you are coming from, but from what I have seen premature death is a terrible degrading and wholly unpleasant thing.


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Personally I think the problem is more the fact mediocre drivers are keeping their seats purely because they bring a wheelbarrow full of sponsorship money with them, sometimes at the expense of a promising young driver.
I quite agree, and it really sad to see a team like Williams go down that route. Pastor Maldonado, to me at least, sums up everything wrong with pay drivers
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Old 10th Dec 2011, 19:44   #46
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Test driver? Well I'd forgotten that, It's like seeing Gary Paffet doing interviews. How much time do they get to spend in real cars, were they at the Abu Dhabi test?

Do you know what the problem today with all these drivers is? Well I think that, not enough of them are dying!
Maybe more to do with the lack of in-season testing, it's easier for a team to opt for a known quantity than a newbie.

I also find you original comment rather distasteful.
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Old 11th Dec 2011, 21:03   #47
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Kimi Raikonnen has been involved in a snowmobile crash and hurt his wrist

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/16131089.stm

Not serious though apparently, will be checked again tomorrow.
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Old 11th Dec 2011, 22:26   #48
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Kimi Raikonnen has been involved in a snowmobile crash and hurt his wrist

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/16131089.stm

Not serious though apparently, will be checked again tomorrow.
Really surprised Renault haven banned there drivers form other extreme sports altogether. They must invest huge amounts of cash into setting the cars up to drivers ect in addition to the salerys. To have all that go up in smoke as with Kubica must be a blow they want to avoid a second time.
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Old 12th Dec 2011, 11:26   #49
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The Kubica incident was a freak accident. The inside of a WRC car is probably one the safest places you could be and I reckon it would be a lot safer than a F1 car.
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Old 12th Dec 2011, 18:59   #50
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Is anyone thinking of going to Milton Keynes on Saturday?

For me it depends on how much stress I feel like having on the morning.
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Maybe more to do with the lack of in-season testing, it's easier for a team to opt for a known quantity than a newbie.

I also find you original comment rather distasteful.
I agree, phoenixes like Pedro can't be good for the "sport". What I really think is that it's just a shame that many good drivers are left at at the quay side. Also that there isn't an actual problem, and that it elevates the prestige of being world champion.

Oh crap, it's the mods! I'm so sorry *bows* it won't happen again, *kisses feat*, please don't do anything, I'm begging you *sobs*. So this is getting off topic, so here. I've also edited my explanation of where I'm coming from (tagged).




Rude (that's sounding a bit limp to me at the moment), WRC cars are made out of malleable materials. Anyone remember Peter Solber crashing in Germany on Panzerplatter? That was close! And there was the unusual incident of Timo Rautiainen's injury. But I've lost touch with more modern WRC rules, I don't know if any improvements have been made. By the virtue that your head is inside the car, I'd be happier in a tin top.
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Old 12th Dec 2011, 19:02   #51
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Rude (that's sounding a bit limp to me at the moment), WRC cars are made out of malleable materials. Anyone remember Peter Solber crashing in Germany on Panzerplatter? That was close! And there was the unusual incident of Timo Rautiainen's injury. But I've lost touch with more modern WRC rules, I don't know if any improvements have been made. By the virtue that your head is inside the car, I'd be happier in a tin top.
Are you referring to the Peter Solberg crash where the only footage was from inside and with every roll the roof got lower and lower and lower? That was ****ing terrifying.
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Old 12th Dec 2011, 19:23   #52
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A tin top won't often be safer than a carbon vehicle - the weight is the key. A carbon safety cell will let the rest of the vehicle disintegrate off and protect the occupant, a tin top can't do the same unfortunately. Just look at the Audi LMP1 accidents this year for how safe carbon safety cells are.

The problem with open cockpit is protecting the driver's head, but the cell itself is absolutely amazing. I'd rather take an F1/F3000 car than a WRC car.
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Old 13th Dec 2011, 19:40   #53
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Ben Edwards is the BBC's new commentator alongside Coulthard [Link]. Can't say the name's familiar.
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Old 13th Dec 2011, 19:49   #54
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Think Sky have won out in terms of commentating team for 2012.
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Old 13th Dec 2011, 20:47   #55
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Think Sky have won out in terms of commentating team for 2012.
Very much so, MB and Crofty is going to be awesome!
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Old 13th Dec 2011, 21:24   #56
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Ben Edwards is the BBC's new commentator alongside Coulthard [Link]. Can't say the name's familiar.
The torygraph has an article on this. While they don't mention it, one of the comments below cites Ben Edwards as having experience commenting on the Eurosport channel, from the Damon Hill / Michael Schumacher era.

Stick 'Ben Edwards F1' into youtube and there's a lot to watch. This is one example you get...
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Old 14th Dec 2011, 17:29   #57
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Are you referring to the Peter Solberg crash where the only footage was from inside and with every roll the roof got lower and lower and lower? That was ****ing terrifying.
Oh yes, and this was Timo's different kind of cockpit intrusion:


And I don't care how safe the car is, when it's possible to do things like this (the second one), the car isn't taking much energy:


Ben Edwards has been doing BTCC coverage for ages, quality commentator. Edit: easily better than James Allen
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Old 14th Dec 2011, 19:04   #58
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I remember watching that GP2 one live and just havign my jaw on the floor. So, so lucky. When you look closely it rolls and lands upsidedown on the wall about an inch infront of his head.
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 12:26   #59
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Well it's goodbye Alguersuari and Buemi, hello Ricciardo and Vergne at Toro Rosso. Slightly harsh on the Spaniard in particular; perhaps there'll be a place for him with Pedro at HRT?
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Toro Rosso have named Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Eric Vergne as their drivers for the 2012 Formula 1 season.

Sebastien Buemi and Jaime Alguersuari make way as the team name an all-new line-up for the first time since their debut in 2006. Australian Ricciardo, 22, is a Red Bull test and reserve driver and has raced for HRT this year. French driver Vergne, 21, has tested for Red Bull and took part in practice for Toro Rosso three times this year.

Toro Rosso team principal Franz Tost said: "One has to remember that when Toro Rosso was established in 2005, it was done so with the intention of providing a first step into Formula 1 for the youngsters in the Red Bull junior driver programme. "It is therefore part of the team's culture to change its driver line-up from time to time in order to achieve this goal."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/16187987.stm
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Old 15th Dec 2011, 16:06   #60
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