bit-tech.net

Go Back   bit-tech.net Forums > bit-tech.net > Article Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 25th Jan 2012, 10:42   #1
brumgrunt
Ultramodder
 
brumgrunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,009
brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.brumgrunt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.
Elpida unveils ReRAM prototype

Memory giant Elpida has confirmed the creation of a resistive RAM (ReRAM) prototype module.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...am-prototype/1
brumgrunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 12:31   #2
Woody59
If Woody59 can... Why can't I?!
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 6
Woody59 has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
So if ReRam replaced DRam, we could potentially leave our computers in sleep mode and not worry bout the electric bill! Every little helps!
Woody59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 12:33   #3
Gareth Halfacree
WIIGII!
bit-tech Staff
 
Gareth Halfacree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bradford, UK
Posts: 3,669
Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.Gareth Halfacree is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody59 View Post
So if ReRam replaced DRam, we could potentially leave our computers in sleep mode and not worry bout the electric bill! Every little helps!
If ReRAM (or racetrack memory, or any of the other 'universal memory' technologies) replaced DRAM, there would be no distinction between 'sleep mode,' 'hibernation' and 'off.' You press the power button, and your PC comes on *instantly,* with everything precisely where you left it. Swapping batteries on a laptop? No problem. Power cut? Wait for the power to come back and everything's still running.

Sadly, the technology is a fair way away from that level of performance and affordability... Still, it's a nice thought for the future.
__________________
Author, Raspberry Pi User Guide, Meet the Raspberry Pi | gareth.halfacree.co.uk | twitter
bit-tech news correspondent, Custom PC columnist, other things to other people
I'm a filthy freelancer! Hire me!
Gareth Halfacree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 13:49   #4
mclean007
Officious Bystander
 
mclean007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Nodnol
Posts: 1,999
mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.mclean007 is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Swapping batteries on a laptop? No problem. Power cut? Wait for the power to come back and everything's still running.
Not quite - a sudden power outage would still cause the CPU to lose its state, so power on wouldn't be exactly as you'd left it. And of course you might still get data corruption on SSDs/HDDs that were in the middle of a write cycle when power was lost. But if the PSU detected the power outage at the socket and was able to inform the hardware to be ready for outage, the CPU could dump its state into (non-volatile) RAM and the disk controller could probably cleanly abort any write transactions in the fraction of a second of power you'd get from the PSU's capacitors before the power outage at the socket reached the system.
__________________
mclean007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 14:55   #5
azazel1024
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
Posts: 477
azazel1024 has yet to learn the way of the Dremelazazel1024 has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
I think you would also want some new mode/option that force purges the memory. A bit less for privacy reasons than anything. However, especially in yesteryear, and frankly still occasionally I run in to issues where simply rebooting a computer doesn't solve the issue, I need to physically shut it down and allow the RAM to lose its state by having it powered off for a few seconds before booting back up. Maybe just making BIOS/UEFI intelligent so that when a reboot is done, instead of reloading everything in to memory, it first zeros out the memory address space before starting to load everything in to memory again. That is, if you are using ReRAM for main memory, and not just super fast physical storage.

I can see how ReRAM could be pretty useful, especially in embedded markets such as routers where you could cut out a chip, maybe some complexity and have extremely fast storage, so a lot of operations like restarting a router are near instantaneous as you are using the same general pool for main memory and storage of the OS. I could also see how it could benifit things like tablets and phones with a lower power standby mode, lower idle power (if nothing is being actively written to the memory, no idle memory power consumption instead of, I guess, needing to keep the main memory in a higher power state than "self refresh") and much faster boot up if you can just save the state in main memory, which wouldn't purge on "shutting down".
__________________
Core 2 Duo E7500, MSI P43-C51, 2x2GB G.Skill Eco DDR3 1600 Cas 7, OCZ Vertex 60GB, Vertex 30GB, Samsung F3 500GB, Samsung F4 2TB, Powercolor Go Green ATI 5570
azazel1024 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 17:26   #6
tad2008
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Sussex, UK
Posts: 310
tad2008 has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
To be honest I am surprised that this kind of memory has not become a part of CPU's, SSD's and the Combo SSD/HDD's as not only would this save some power when the PC is on if a power cut happens no data should be lost and the current state would remain, instant on would certainly be better achieved.
tad2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 19:13   #7
Xlog
Multimodder
 
Xlog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
Posts: 233
Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!Xlog - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!
Why this won't replace RAM: it still has limited amount of write cycles.
__________________
http://x-log.deviantart.com/
Xlog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jan 2012, 19:58   #8
The Infamous Mr D
We like beans & cheesecake
 
The Infamous Mr D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 125
The Infamous Mr D has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xlog
Why this won't replace RAM: it still has limited amount of write cycles.
With storage that has the same throughput performance as DRAM, why would you want to replace it...?
__________________
I <3 Aquatuning & Enermax long time!

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3.2GHz, Asus P5E, Patriot Viper 4GB PC2-6400 DDR2, XFX Radeon HD5870 1GB
2x Maxtor DiamondMax 21 80GB in RAID 0, PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 PSU, all in a Coolermaster Cosmos PURE
The Infamous Mr D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jan 2012, 08:15   #9
fluxtatic
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 482
fluxtatic has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by tad2008
To be honest I am surprised that this kind of memory has not become a part of CPU's, SSD's and the Combo SSD/HDD's as not only would this save some power when the PC is on if a power cut happens no data should be lost and the current state would remain, instant on would certainly be better achieved.
It may be at some point, but as they said, it hasn't been commercialized yet. I don't think it will replace RAM, but I could see one or both of these happening: 1) it's used mainly in smartphones/tablets, etc, as replacement or augmentation of current storage, RAM and storage. However, it won't be marketed as such, just whatever BS name the manufacturers come up with, and so you might not even realize it's in the wild. 2) augmentation of current PC RAM/storage, where it's been given an equally silly name as in (1), but it's also pushed as ReRAM, as that will give nerds boners.

Obviously not both can be entirely true at the same time (not knowing it's out vs nerd boners, for example), but I think it's inevitable.
fluxtatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Jan 2012, 16:10   #10
azazel1024
Supermodder
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
Posts: 477
azazel1024 has yet to learn the way of the Dremelazazel1024 has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
It would not be part of the CPU as 10ns is a lot slower than the access time of the SRAM that is on die for L1/L2/L3 chaches. It is in the same ball park as the DRAM and LPDDR memory used for main memory though.

DDR 1600 CL7 memory has an access time of 8.75ns, which is only "a bit" faster than the 10ns that this stuff supposedly can handle. That is the equivelent to CL8 memory at DDR1600 (which has an access time of 10ns).

This does not take in to account the actual round trip time from the CPU to main memory, which is part of the reason why CL7 really doesn't translate to significantly higher performance than CL9 memory does, even though the access time is about 25% faster. On a Sandbridge processor there is a latency of about 150 clock cycles to retrieve data from main memory. At 3.3Ghz that translates to about 45ns of built in lag (not sure if that takes in to account the actual memory access time as part of the latency or not). So the memory chip latency accounts for at most 18% of the overall latency and possibly as little as 14%, so even a "big" change in main memory chip access times only changes overall main memory latency a small amount (25% of 14% leads to a 4% change in memory latency).

L1 cache speed is roughly .5ns and L2 is roughly 7ns AFAIK that takes in to account the clock cycles, with L1 cache is 2 clock cycles on SB and I think L2 is around 10-15 clock cycles (L3 I think is around 30-40 clock cycles). So as you can see, the memory access time is ridiculously low, well below a nanosecond for L1 cache. So if you use slower access memory on the CPU die, you are going to severly limit processor speed. You want the gosh darned fastest switching transistors you can manage on them (even for L3).
__________________
Core 2 Duo E7500, MSI P43-C51, 2x2GB G.Skill Eco DDR3 1600 Cas 7, OCZ Vertex 60GB, Vertex 30GB, Samsung F3 500GB, Samsung F4 2TB, Powercolor Go Green ATI 5570
azazel1024 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:41.
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.