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Old 14th May 2012, 11:13   #1
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Intel details 10nm, 7nm, 5nm process roadmap

Intel has released slides claiming that research has begun on 10nm and below process nodes.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...cess-roadmap/1
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Old 14th May 2012, 11:24   #2
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MOAR TRANSISTORS!

Doesn't seem that long ago that I was getting excited for 45nm... 65nm seemed small enough already at that point.
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Old 14th May 2012, 11:24   #3
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Or just MOAR thermal issues ?

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Old 14th May 2012, 11:31   #4
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Good point. Someone should tell Intel to stop following Moore's law. We don't want moar transistors.

I would like to think alternative semiconductor designs will deal with any thermal problems. Surely that is what they would be working on?
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Old 14th May 2012, 11:39   #5
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I beg to differ, we do want MOAR transistors, but we want them without needing LN2 to keep the CPU cool at stock speeds lol

I'm guessing they're already thinking about how to deal with the thermal issues given the poor thermal properties of Ivy Bridge.
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Old 14th May 2012, 11:58   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noizdaemon666
I'm guessing they're already thinking about how to deal with the thermal issues given the poor thermal properties of Ivy Bridge.
Care to clarify that? Thanks to 22nm and Tri-Gate, Ivy Bridge CPUs have a lower TDP than their Sandy Bridge predecessors. Specifically, both the 3770K and the 3570K have a TDP of 77W, against 95W for the 2700K and 2500K. The IB processors also apparently perform at least as well if not better in every situation at both stock and OC settings, have a faster GPU, and OC better. Doesn't sound like poor thermal performance to me.
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:08   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclean007 View Post
Care to clarify that? Thanks to 22nm and Tri-Gate, Ivy Bridge CPUs have a lower TDP than their Sandy Bridge predecessors. Specifically, both the 3770K and the 3570K have a TDP of 77W, against 95W for the 2700K and 2500K. The IB processors also apparently perform at least as well if not better in every situation at both stock and OC settings, have a faster GPU, and OC better. Doesn't sound like poor thermal performance to me.
it's called Heat Density.

the CPU itself is great, performs well as you said. but the processor as a product is disappointing due to the poor thermal interface materials used between the die and the heatspreader. hence the "heat issue" mentioned.

solution is to change manufacturing process by soldering the heatspreader onto the die. at least that should work for a few years until 7nm made the "heat issue" resurface.
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:55   #8
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At this rate, Intel will need to work on their molecule-shrinking technology to keep Moore's law going.
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Old 14th May 2012, 13:04   #9
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both chips under stock settings stock cooler reach about a similar temparature

once overclocked is the temp dif

at 4.5ghz the temps are aproaching 100c on most poor air coolers really do need a decent chip + cooler to get a overclock going
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Old 14th May 2012, 13:30   #10
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Looking forward to the first picometer chips
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Old 14th May 2012, 13:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclean007 View Post
Care to clarify that? Thanks to 22nm and Tri-Gate, Ivy Bridge CPUs have a lower TDP than their Sandy Bridge predecessors. Specifically, both the 3770K and the 3570K have a TDP of 77W, against 95W for the 2700K and 2500K. The IB processors also apparently perform at least as well if not better in every situation at both stock and OC settings, have a faster GPU, and OC better. Doesn't sound like poor thermal performance to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu View Post
it's called Heat Density.

the CPU itself is great, performs well as you said. but the processor as a product is disappointing due to the poor thermal interface materials used between the die and the heatspreader. hence the "heat issue" mentioned.

solution is to change manufacturing process by soldering the heatspreader onto the die. at least that should work for a few years until 7nm made the "heat issue" resurface.
As Wyx said to be honest. Just because they have a lower TDP doesn't mean they have better temperatures. As others have said OC temps are abysmal.
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Old 14th May 2012, 13:39   #12
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Why not do a 32core at lower speeds with more cache. I really do not care if the processor takes 5x5cm or 1x1cm of space. In idle mode let 31 cores sleep to save loads of energy.
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Old 14th May 2012, 13:46   #13
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Quote:
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Why not do a 32core at lower speeds with more cache. I really do not care if the processor takes 5x5cm or 1x1cm of space. In idle mode let 31 cores sleep to save loads of energy.
Pointless processor is pointless, at least in a consumer environment. You're hard pressed to find software that utilises anything more than 4 cores, let alone 32. In a server environment though, it'd be a good move.
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Old 14th May 2012, 14:09   #14
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I'm no expert in processor design, but how about spacing the four/six cores out on a bigger chunk of silicon, and adding the system RAM to fill the spaces in between ?

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Old 14th May 2012, 14:30   #15
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But then RAM wouldn't be upgradeable, at least not without removing the IHS.
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Old 14th May 2012, 14:37   #16
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:24   #17
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When I see stuff like this, I begin to wonder if something DID crash at Roswell.
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:31   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noizdaemon666
I'm guessing they're already thinking about how to deal with the thermal issues given the poor thermal properties of Ivy Bridge.
The main reason for the poor thermal properties is the use of TIM (as Wuyanxu has stated) rather than Fluxless solder. A japanese review site managed to get a 14-24 degree Celsius reduction in temperature by using Coolaboratory TIM.

http://www.techpowerup.com/165882/TI...After-All.html
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:33   #19
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When I see stuff like this, I begin to wonder if something DID crash at Roswell.
Something did! Officially a weather balloon!
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Old 14th May 2012, 15:45   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
it's called Heat Density.

the CPU itself is great, performs well as you said. but the processor as a product is disappointing due to the poor thermal interface materials used between the die and the heatspreader. hence the "heat issue" mentioned.
It isn't really heat density. Heat density is a measure of thermal output per unit area / volume (depending on context). The issue you are describing is more about thermal conductance.

Anyway, nomenclature aside, I understand the point - IB chips get hotter than they would if the process was different - but the temperature in itself is pretty meaningless. What counts is how the chip performs, and (heat issue or no heat issue) IB chips are epic.
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