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Old 15th Jun 2012, 10:46   #1
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Government under fire over Draft Communications Data Bill

The coalition has come under fire for its Draft Communications Data Bill, dubbed "a snooper's charter."

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/20...15/draft-cdb/1
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 12:05   #2
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TOR says hello.What are they going to do with encrypted services? Ban them?
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 12:42   #3
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They can already access peoples email and other electronic info. The reason the bill is being put forward is so they can lock more innocent people away on " terrorist charges" while appearing to do everything by the book. At the moment any data they take a gander at can not be used in court because it was obtained illegally.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 13:57   #4
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It is a total blag. Anyone who wants to circumvent this can within minutes of research.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 14:05   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lister View Post
They can already access peoples email and other electronic info. The reason the bill is being put forward is so they can lock more innocent people away on " terrorist charges" while appearing to do everything by the book. At the moment any data they take a gander at can not be used in court because it was obtained illegally.
Do you have any examples of innocent people that actually have been imprisoned?
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 14:43   #6
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Originally Posted by law99 View Post
TOR says hello.What are they going to do with encrypted services? Ban them?
Most likely. It's already illegal in this country not to disclose a password to government representatives, and you get 2 years in the clink for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlT2001
Do you have any examples of innocent people that actually have been imprisoned?
All who go to jail are guilty. The issue is, what is to be a crime?
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 14:56   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlT2001
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They can already access peoples email and other electronic info. The reason the bill is being put forward is so they can lock more innocent people away on " terrorist charges" while appearing to do everything by the book. At the moment any data they take a gander at can not be used in court because it was obtained illegally.
Do you have any examples of innocent people that actually have been imprisoned?
There are loads of examples out there but off the top of my head no. But take for example the case of the guy who hacked some american government agency just trying to find out if aliens were real, he was imprisoned then sent to the US to do more time. Technically that was against the law, but he should NOT be doing time for it, just because he was curious.

Julian Assange has been under house arrest for over 500 days now without charge for not even breaking any laws, I realize that is in america but every country wants a bit of him including the UK.

If you don't think anything underhanded ever goes on in government you must be very naive. They are like wolfs who will destroy anyone or anything that isn't one of the pack.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 15:03   #8
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Like many controversial issues in life, I can see where they're coming from and where the sense is in it, but I'm completely opposed to it. I just don't agree with it on a "respect my privacy" level at all. I don't want my communications data to be monitored by anyone, never mind the British government. This is one more step closer to UK Internet users being as restricted as they would be if they lived in China. It reminds me of the US government surveillance bill that was the subject of "Enemy of the State". Anything that is potentially going to be introduced into law here in the UK that reminds me of something I saw in an American film is a bad sign!
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 15:37   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
Quote:
Originally Posted by law99 View Post
TOR says hello.What are they going to do with encrypted services? Ban them?
Most likely. It's already illegal in this country not to disclose a password to government representatives, and you get 2 years in the clink for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlT2001
Do you have any examples of innocent people that actually have been imprisoned?
All who go to jail are guilty. The issue is, what is to be a crime?
Only if the Police have got a court order for a specific password for a specific encrypted volume/device/whatever. Otherwise you're fine.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 15:41   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
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Originally Posted by law99 View Post
TOR says hello.What are they going to do with encrypted services? Ban them?
Most likely. It's already illegal in this country not to disclose a password to government representatives, and you get 2 years in the clink for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlT2001
Do you have any examples of innocent people that actually have been imprisoned?
All who go to jail are guilty. The issue is, what is to be a crime?
Perhaps we should remove all security certs from our computers and just dial up all our info for preliminary examinations now?

Will they ban MS from shipping them in updates? What are they trying to achieve? I honestly think this bill is either formed from ignorance or deceit.

Let me get something straight here... I don't care whether my data gets chucked around or not. As long as I am not effected I am happy enough. I don't mind google remembering what I've searched for or websites making cookies... I just don't care. I do care that they want to mandate lies or stupidity.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 15:44   #11
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Only if the Police have got a court order for a specific password for a specific encrypted volume/device/whatever. Otherwise you're fine.
They don't need it. Chiefs of police, HMRC commissioners, Brigadiers (and above, or equivalent) can also authorise a section 49 notice. So essentially the police can authorise it themselves.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 16:11   #12
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Originally Posted by Dave Lister View Post
There are loads of examples out there but off the top of my head no. But take for example the case of the guy who hacked some american government agency just trying to find out if aliens were real, he was imprisoned then sent to the US to do more time. Technically that was against the law, but he should NOT be doing time for it, just because he was curious.

Julian Assange has been under house arrest for over 500 days now without charge for not even breaking any laws, I realize that is in america but every country wants a bit of him including the UK.

If you don't think anything underhanded ever goes on in government you must be very naive. They are like wolfs who will destroy anyone or anything that isn't one of the pack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon if you're talking about him, then he's still fighting extradition. As for Julian Assange, last I heard he was fighting extradition to Sweden where he faces changes of rape, and is currently in England not America (although the Americans want him for other things).
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 21:21   #13
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he said he was curious, they say he did damage to their system, and was deleting files, the problem we face with that case, is we only know what the press have released, he says he didn't, the us government say he did.

julian assange on the other hand, released leaked government secret files, someone else claims to have been raped by him, is all this a conspiracy, who knows, but there is no smoke without fire.
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Old 15th Jun 2012, 21:49   #14
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Will they ban MS from shipping them in updates? What are they trying to achieve? I honestly think this bill is either formed from ignorance or deceit.
That's just it, ignorance. Obviously they have some consultants and experts help while working out the technical bits, but the politicians who grandstand about "protecting the children" and claim spending billions to wire-tap private citizens will somehow prevent tax fraud, have no idea what the technical requirements, or logistical benefits of such a bill would be.

It seems to me like some forensic accountant somewhere decided it would be neat to have a database of if/when certain email accounts communicated. Then a politician got a hold of the idea and wants to force ISP's to fundamentally alter the way email is sent and received in order to make that happen, with no conception of how expensive that would be, or how easy it will be to circumvent.
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 09:56   #15
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Don't worry folks. They don't want to read the contents of your communications, they just want to record who you're in contact, and how often. The government are just like that soft, cuddly company who, earlier this year, launched the largest tech IPO in history.

Yes, there's obviously value in such a social graph, but this is the government we're talking about and they're paid to look after our interests, not theirs! It's not as if they want to identify political influencers (those who are politically active with a large network of contacts) along with the politically influenced (those who reciprocate that communication, but are otherwise politically inactive).

What would be the point in that? They certainly wouldn't use this data to spin otherwise unpopular policies to appeal to those influencers, giving them more precise control over the impact of the party line, rather than just hope it appeals to a blanket demographic.

And I'm sure they wouldn't attempt to manipulate an ignorant Electoral Borders Committee (afterall, why would they need access to 'security' data?) because that would be an absolute perversion of the democratic system.

This is a well-considered bill is about security, not about marketing, misinformation, manipulation and spin. They simply want to protect us from terrorists, and our children from pedophiles.

God save the Queen.
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 11:27   #16
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 11:56   #17
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Originally Posted by VipersGratitude View Post
This is a well-considered bill is about security, not about marketing, misinformation, manipulation and spin. They simply want to protect us from terrorists, and our children from pedophiles.God save the Queen.
+1

Surely people who have any issue with this has something to hide?
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 12:05   #18
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he said he was curious, they say he did damage to their system, and was deleting files, the problem we face with that case, is we only know what the press have released, he says he didn't, the us government say he did.
Actually, he says he did and that he would continue to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McKinnon
US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels
This is a message that he fully admits leaving on a NASA computer. Quite frankly, I'm surprised we've let him stay in the UK so long despite his extradition being authorised at the highest level.
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 15:13   #19
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This is a well-considered bill is about security, not about marketing, misinformation, manipulation and spin. They simply want to protect us from terrorists, and our children from pedophiles.God save the Queen.
+1

Surely people who have any issue with this has something to hide?
+10
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Old 16th Jun 2012, 15:19   #20
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Sorry I meant I have ten things to hide. Oh no wait, I already knew how to hide them... guess I'm not effected. Move on, nothing to see here.
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