Planning dive off the deep end:xtreme water cooled build. solidworks question

[siliconfanatic]

Ill say this now: this idea of mine stands about a 0% chance of becoming reality. i have little money (about $240 last i checked) and no experience except bolting in a fan once(and that got me excited) and i once took the cooling fins off my cpu in my dinasaur of a desktop once. ill soon be getting my grandfathers bargain build(specs later) back with solidworks loaded on it. once i learn the ropes of it, ill start work on layout, flow charictaristics, heat transfer, etc.
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=226595
my grandad is actually also a rc plane enthusiast, and as such has plenty of old servos laying around. i took a look at the moving slats on this project and liked what i saw.

then thers this:
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/3050.html
I have OFFICIALY decided to go the air cooling route. I will however at least water cool cpu. Please overlook errors as this was edited on a nook color and will be corrected asap.

[The_Crapman]

It's going to cost you more than $240. a lot more....

[siliconfanatic]

exactly. thats why im doing anything possible to get a job asap. and this is more for the future any way, as i have few options as to where to put such a monster of a case atm.

[The_Crapman]

Well there was a mineral oil cooled build on here last year, you should have a look through the logs:
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=196511

[siliconfanatic]

i will definatly check that out. btw, how exactly do you get sponsorship? ive been searching, but theres nothing on how its done.

[siliconfanatic]

also, i was cosidering using fluorinert if i can, as i was thinking of cooling the liquid to lower than 10c, which is mineral oils lowest useful temp due to viscosity, which would prob be very hard on the fans. but two things occupy my mind, does it permeate through acrylic, and does it make acrylic brittle?

[Cheapskate]

Fluorinert won't happen on your budget. There's also an issue of condensation on something below freezing. Wiring and stuff even near the tank would draw moisture. Water would be drawn to the surface of the coolant and mix with it too.
-Have you thought about a nitrogen-charged sealed fridge instead?

[siliconfanatic]

sub-zero, as well as fluorinert, were more/less just thinking aloud. and also, min. oil wont mix with water. are ther any other liquids besides min oil? ive read its not the best of thermal conductors, and is a tad viscous too. if i need to i will seal the tank off. one thing tho: not nescessary to be sub zero, but i would like it to be at least slightly lower than ambiant. now that i look at fluorinert i see what you mean. im off to googleland. EDIT: if this is above price range anyway, i could go to air cooling. i have a few ideas for that to. if i do, this looks appealing:
http://www.sanyodenki.eu/Counter-Rot...20x120x76.html
If someone knows their cost let me know.

[siliconfanatic]

Originally Posted by Cheapskate

.
-Have you thought about a nitrogen-charged sealed fridge instead?

how much would THAT cost?

[SuicideNeil]

The fact you have flipped from mineral oil to fluorinert to air cooling is rather worrying; you have big ideas but no money or experience to pull them off ( yes, oil does reek havoc on certain other parts- read that other build thread to see all the issues that guy had ); spit-balling such wildly varying ideas is not the approach to take when you know your budget limitations and technical limitations.

As for sponsorship- there is a sticky about that, but generally speaking sponsors will want to see your past work to get an idea of how good you are, and how much 'value' they will get from having their parts featured on your build. A first timer won't usually have much luck getting sponsored with serious hardware, you'll be lucky to get some much smaller ancillary items from smaller companies.

I think for a first serious project you are best off sticking with air cooling, concentrate on making something special of the case and a tidy install inside, that's the best approach to take.

[Attila]

Originally Posted by SuicideNeil

As for sponsorship- there is a sticky about that, but generally speaking sponsors will want to see your past work to get an idea of how good you are, and how much 'value' they will get from having their parts featured on your build. A first timer won't usually have much luck getting sponsored with serious hardware, you'll be lucky to get some much smaller ancillary items from smaller companies.

I think for a first serious project you are best off sticking with air cooling, concentrate on making something special of the case and a tidy install inside, that's the best approach to take.

Even a long term, high quality builder with lots of great work to show, (I'm speaking of angel OD here) has trouble getting sponsors. (see his worklog in the projects section where a company would not even supply a small drive). The advice above is 'good advice'. Start small and build up your skill level and knowledge. When you have the ability and finances, you can then attempt something more ambitious. And forget about sponsors until you have a portfolio of work to show them.

[siliconfanatic]

Originally Posted by Attila

Even a long term, high quality builder with lots of great work to show, (I'm speaking of angel OD here) has trouble getting sponsors. (see his worklog in the projects section where a company would not even supply a small drive). The advice above is 'good advice'. Start small and build up your skill level and knowledge. When you have the ability and finances, you can then attempt something more ambitious. And forget about sponsors until you have a portfolio of work to show them.

this is the reasone i switched so much. I read up that a few problems with oil, posted for flourinert, looked at the price, facepalmed, and switched to air cooling. now that ive settled an a bit less... impracticle project i will see about layout, and case design. This will be a scratchbuild, that will not be changing, except a few scraps of other cases from my uncle's previous builds. hard drives shouldnt be an issue as we have plenty of those and I dont need much more than 200gigs anyway. This will be liquid cooled: cpu, gpu, and (maybe) the chipset. Pics will have to wait until i get computer back from uncle with solidworks installed and fancontrol fixed(i tend to O.D. on JC2 for the first day.) then i promise at least sketches of whats floating around in my head. on another note: i still have been unable to find any prices on that dazzling fan i posted earlier. if unable to, ill just go for a few extra regular fans.

[siliconfanatic]

Okay, little hitch: the problem with solidworks rig is worse than previously thought. got yet ANOTHER defective card from newegg. unfortunatly this is a refurb, so we can only get a replacement, not a refund, so we'll have to sell it/cannabalize it/ other, then get a new, better one. hoping my grandfather will pull his head up a get a 600 series geforce and not 500(we only have trouble with those and amd cards.) so pics are gonna wait till i can get this piece of junk fixed up. and maybe it will STAY fixed this time.

[Owndapwn]

Ignoring the cost, good air cooling performs better than oil cooling and without the maintenance.
For oil cooling, you need a special pump designed for oil to pump the oil through a special radiator for oil.
Mineral oil absorbs heat really well, but it doesn't let it go. It will just stay hot.
The oil will also plug up the pumps and rads and need cleaning regularly.

High-quality air coolers (V6GT, Hyper 212, NZXT Havik 140, Noctura NH-D14, Phantek's NH-D14 rip off) will out perform even cheap water cooling systems.
For water cooling to out perform air cooling less than $100, you have to spend about $300, if not more.


I have the Havik 140 and love it, but the Phantek and Noctura are good too. The Hyper 212 is pretty tight budget, and the V6GT is WAY louder than the Havik, but they perform the same.
Pre-sealed water cooling is not worth it. The $120 Corsair H100 is outperformed by the $60 NZXT Havik 140, and even the $50 V6GT, plus it uses cheap hoses and risks leaking, and even with non-conductive coolant, it's a mess and the lack of coolant will fry your components.

[siliconfanatic]

Originally Posted by Owndapwn

Ignoring the cost, good air cooling performs better than oil cooling and without the maintenance.
For oil cooling, you need a special pump designed for oil to pump the oil through a special radiator for oil.
Mineral oil absorbs heat really well, but it doesn't let it go. It will just stay hot.
The oil will also plug up the pumps and rads and need cleaning regularly.

High-quality air coolers (V6GT, Hyper 212, NZXT Havik 140, Noctura NH-D14, Phantek's NH-D14 rip off) will out perform even cheap water cooling systems.
For water cooling to out perform air cooling less than $100, you have to spend about $300, if not more.


I have the Havik 140 and love it, but the Phantek and Noctura are good too. The Hyper 212 is pretty tight budget, and the V6GT is WAY louder than the Havik, but they perform the same.
Pre-sealed water cooling is not worth it. The $120 Corsair H100 is outperformed by the $60 NZXT Havik 140, and even the $50 V6GT, plus it uses cheap hoses and risks leaking, and even with non-conductive coolant, it's a mess and the lack of coolant will fry your components.

hence the reason i switched to flourinert, read its problems with eating plasticisers, and switched to air cooling with ater cooling for graphis card and cpu.

[jamsand]

If your looking to do a custom loop(I'm assuming with a cpu and gpu loop) then please keep in mind the cost of that

Waterblock £50
240 rad £40
gpu full cover block 50-90 depending on model
kill coil or biocide £10
Res £20(that's a cheap one)
Pump £60
Fans £20
fittings £3ea about £50
Hose£10

You'll eat your entire $240 on the cooling alone and then some, stick with little ideas for now go with a noctua phantek or thermalright, they're fairly quiet and perform just as well till you get into quite high overclocks also less to maintain

I started with a air cooled x58 system and slowly upgrade as i can afford it current go 2 240 rads an aquatube a d5 full coverblock for my 5870 and apogee HD installed and that only took a year or so....baby steps cause you don't want to be frying a 500 OR 600 series card lol

Also I would deitch the oil cooling idea unless you have a background in that kind of thing and as a high end gaming machine cooling solution I'v only ever seen one build use it it was a winner of the dream pc award and it cost something like £20K to make

[siliconfanatic]

Originally Posted by jamsand

If your looking to do a custom loop(I'm assuming with a cpu and gpu loop) then please keep in mind the cost of that

Waterblock £50
240 rad £40
gpu full cover block 50-90 depending on model
kill coil or biocide £10
Res £20(that's a cheap one)
Pump £60
Fans £20
fittings £3ea about £50
Hose£10

You'll eat your entire $240 on the cooling alone and then some, stick with little ideas for now go with a noctua phantek or thermalright, they're fairly quiet and perform just as well till you get into quite high overclocks also less to maintain.

I started with a air cooled x58 system and slowly upgrade as i can afford it current go 2 240 rads an aquatube a d5 full coverblock for my 5870 and apogee HD installed and that only took a year or so....baby steps cause you don't want to be frying a 500 OR 600 series card lol

Also I would deitch the oil cooling idea unless you have a background in that kind of thing and as a high end gaming machine cooling solution I'v only ever seen one build use it it was a winner of the dream pc award and it cost something like £20K to make

cross off kill coil(engine coolant will be used, dad is a mechanic fans will not be a problen, i can get a mer 120 rad or 150(if they exist) if need be. and oil/flourinert has been prohibited already. if i cant get graphics cooled ill get msi aftbrnr, and just liquicool cpu. and, that savings is NOT concrete, as i am looking to getting a job soon so i will have income .and i also already am in possesion of two 120 fans, just need to resolder them to have the correct connectors. i do have some thing, not entirely poor ya know! i also have the tools(tubberware and hot glue to make a diy res, hidden ofcourse)

[jamsand]

oil's gonna bugger a d5, 240 will barely do a cpu and gpu loop 120 rad will have no chance, still need fittings and fans you'll want decent ones with good static pressure. I get the feeling your set on using a foreign liquid though so gonna leave you to it.

Post pics once it's done

here is the one i was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfctaNatpg4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5BhLbbTPVrM

Also i was wrong it was 100K not 20K

[[PUNK] crompers]

Why don't you just do a nice simple AC build for your first comp, maybe mod a case a bit and see how you do, this is the way mosy modders start.

I admire your ambition but you may be overfacing yourself

[Nexxo]

Originally Posted by siliconfanatic

hence the reason i switched to flourinert, read its problems with eating plasticisers, and switched to air cooling with ater cooling for graphis card and cpu.

Fluorinert is inert, which means that it does not eat anything. It is perfectly safe with plastics, rubber and silicones (some other Perfluorcarbons are not, but Fluorinert is fine) . It does cost about £75,-- a pint however so a cheap solution it is not.

It also evaporates at room temperature so if you built a submerged system, it would have to be hermetically sealed, which is a problem with any wiring going into and coming out of the tank. If you use it in a conventional liquid cooling setup with blocks and tubes, cooling the liquid below ambient temperature can cause condensation which is bad (mmmmokay?) for your electronics. Just look at some Peltier-cooled rigs to see how tricky it is to insulate the blocks and tubing and protect the mobo from condensation.