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Old 1st Oct 2012, 08:19   #1
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Notch snubs Microsoft's closed Windows 8

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...ed-windows-8/1
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 08:32   #2
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Another person I respect in the PC gaming arena that has 'issues' with windows 8. Well I definitely won't be getting it (I've tried cp & rp) and win7 will last until steamlinux makes an appearance whereby a dual boot with win7 on one machine.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 08:56   #3
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I see this as being just the same as the app store on OS X: if you want in, you have to jump through Apple's hoops - if not, you can still get your application installed the "old fashioned" way.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 09:57   #4
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i wonder how long before any indi project will not be able to install cos it fails the windows cert. /* not bought in windows store... can not install. *\
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:00   #5
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The last argument that Microsoft produced, that it is harder for cheaters to cheat, is just ridiculous. It's equivalent to politicians' favourite arguments for when they want to curtail civil liberties without good cause - 'think of the children' or 'terrorism'.

Sadly though, Notch's protest isn't going to change a thing about W8. W8 is driven by people who looked at the popularity of Apple despite their rather authoritarian mobile and desktop OSs and realised they could get away with that too. There are longterm goals here which involve more money than PC gaming can ever produce.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:11   #6
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And again, bashing, bashing, bashing without any real reason. This certification is about getting in Windows Store, about adhering to few rules if you want to sell your stuff through store. It is not about not being able to install these applications at all. It is only and only about the store. Nothing else.

So Griffter, they can fail the certification and they still will be able to be installed - the old fashioned way.

Bede, no one cuts any of your rights in Windows 8. Want to install your stuff old fashioned way ? Sure, you can. Want to be in Microsoft Store ? You need to play according to their rules (the certification process).
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:16   #7
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charm, ok u right faugusztin, i did know this, but what i was wondering is how long it takes microsoft to change win 8 or maybe the next edition win 9 to be like the iphone, where u cant just install anything on it.

the article does mention win 8 and or store is mimicking apple. so just food for thought.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:32   #8
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charm, ok u right faugusztin, i did know this, but what i was wondering is how long it takes microsoft to change win 8 or maybe the next edition win 9 to be like the iphone, where u cant just install anything on it.
That is not going to happen, at least not on desktop. By locking out "sideloading" (installing from other sources than the Store), they would push people to OS X and Linux.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:33   #9
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charm, ok u right faugusztin, i did know this, but what i was wondering is how long it takes microsoft to change win 8 or maybe the next edition win 9 to be like the iphone, where u cant just install anything on it.

the article does mention win 8 and or store is mimicking apple. so just food for thought.
I don't thin it would work. The appstore was introduced together with ios - so it gets kind of accepted (jailbreaking). People are used to download stuff for windows from multiple sources and install them, a ms-store-only-software-version of windows wouldn't sell.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:43   #10
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sure, well minded ppl like ourselves, but we talking about a very powerful business. all business' dont care in many ways, except valve - they do everything right :-D. i think a company that has their product in above 80-90% of houses and business', they can do whatever they would like and ppl just need to follow, since most business' cant afford to just change OS and most home owners dont really know what they getting themself into.

i think its very possible in the near future. pessimistic much? :-\
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 10:55   #11
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sure, well minded ppl like ourselves, but we talking about a very powerful business. all business' dont care in many ways, except valve - they do everything right :-D. i think a company that has their product in above 80-90% of houses and business', they can do whatever they would like and ppl just need to follow, since most business' cant afford to just change OS and most home owners dont really know what they getting themself into.

i think its very possible in the near future. pessimistic much? :-\
No, it is not possible. First of all, they would kick themself out from the whole business sector, if they would require all applications to be installed from one source - Store. Many, many companies have specialized, custom software. It is simply unthinkable to even consider uploading those application to Store.

So no, on x86 removal of "sideloading" won't happen.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 11:05   #12
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I'd have expected a little less... hysteria from Notch. Having Minecraft included in the Windows Store would be an absolute money spinner for him (so when the Store takes off I expect him to change his mind ). There is nothing about Windows 8 that is not as open as it ever was.

Perhaps Microsoft should just re-release MS-DOS for those poor people who cannot handle a few brightly-coloured squares.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 11:07   #13
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Maybe not on the desktop space but on the tablet space, Last i checked you already cant side load on the Windows RT software.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 11:09   #14
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when win 9 comes out i hope i find you again and say i told u so :-D

but its those things where i can only cheer u on and really really prey im wrong. would love to be wrong. i guess i just dont trust MS, or any big business with so much power. speaking bout MS since the article is on MS.

tell me faugusztin, are u a fan of win 8 , let me know why win 8 is good if u are a supporter?
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 11:26   #15
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Maybe not on the desktop space but on the tablet space, Last i checked you already cant side load on the Windows RT software.
Neither you can on iPad. Windows RT versus Windows 8 is like iOS versus OS X. Sure, you got the Launchpad from iOS to OS X - but that didn't change the fact that you can install apps old fashioned way in OS X. Same applies to Windows 8 - it has the same UI as Windows RT, plus the old fashioned way of doing things for non-ModernUI apps.

So once again, Windows RT tablets to Windows 8 is same as iPad to OS X.

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tell me faugusztin, are u a fan of win 8 , let me know why win 8 is good if u are a supporter?
I am not fan, but neither hater. There are some things i dislike in Windows 8 (especially with my accidental presses of Windows key bringing up Start screen all the time).

Hell, you could hardly find someone more open minded for OS selection as me. I have Windows 7 on desktop, Ubuntu on the server/HTPC, OS X on my Macbook, Windows 8 inside the VM on Macbook, i have an Android and WP7.5 phone, iPod Touch,... That is why i don't understand all the Windows 8 hate and pessimism by the way.

Windows 8 is simply a product of market shifting away from a traditional computer (desktop, laptop) towards tablets. Classical Windows UI is absolutely awful for a tablet interface, hell, Microsoft tried it few times (the first tablets around 2000, UPMC, Windows Mobile UI) and failed each and every time. That is why they created the new ecosystem optimised for the tablet UI, because that is from where the money comes. And because they tested the UI and the store system with Windows Phone 7, they know what they can expect.
For the old fashioned guys, they still have (and will have in next OS iterations too) the standard desktop interface, because it is pretty much impossible for applications like Photoshop to switch to the .NET/XAML UI system. And that is why desktop on x86 will never go away - market won't allow it.

You just need to get outside of "oh no, MS took away our Start menu, they will remove the desktop in Windows 9" thinking and start thinking rationally.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 12:23   #16
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I'd have expected a little less... hysteria from Notch. Having Minecraft included in the Windows Store would be an absolute money spinner for him (so when the Store takes off I expect him to change his mind ). There is nothing about Windows 8 that is not as open as it ever was.

Perhaps Microsoft should just re-release MS-DOS for those poor people who cannot handle a few brightly-coloured squares.
He doesn't need a money spinner. He's already made it clear that he's basically made all the money he needs to & from here on in he just means to use his status to influence the industry as he sees fit.
I don't like the look of Windows 8 (mostly for aesthetic reasons) & if I was in the same position as him, I too might say "No, I don't like your new product & I don't want or need to involve myself in it". How he apparently said it may seem to come across a little petulant, but I don't see any problems with his reasoning.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 12:28   #17
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What a mature response Notch... Seriously, just sounds like a whiney child.

The certifications aren't even demanding in the slightest.

"1.1 Your app must not take a dependency on Windows compatibility modes, AppHelp message, and or any other compatibility fixes
4.1 Your app must handle critical shutdowns appropriately
5.1 Your app must properly implement a clean, reversible installation"

Seriously, that's what he's complaining about?

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He doesn't need a money spinner. He's already made it clear that he's basically made all the money he needs to & from here on in he just means to use his status to influence the industry as he sees fit.
With sensationalist twitter posts.

Did Notch forget that Minecraft is on Xbox360, a very closed system.

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Old 1st Oct 2012, 13:04   #18
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Did Notch forget that Minecraft is on Xbox360, a very closed system.
And the worlds most closed down store better known as the iCrap store.

Honsestly, Notchs refusal to put minecraft on the ms app store just falls in line with his previous opinion on refusing to put it on steam, gog, origin and so on.

Meanwhile in mobile / console land he is happy with even the most restrictive stores.

Anyone else see where this is going? Yep, I'll just say it, Notch is about to turn into yet another console dev. He will be the next Peter Molyneux.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 13:12   #19
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I don't get what the fuss is about, you can still install software as you have been able to since the start of windows, just run the installer as normal. If you want to sell your software via Microsoft's own Store you have to play by their rules.

It's the same deal with any shop - you can't just walk into a shop, hand them a product and expect them to sell it without knowing anything about it! The shop owner can choose what they sell and the quality of the goods.

I can understand MS wanting to test/certify anything it sells from its own store, they (not so much the developer) will be the ones that get the huge negative press should something from their store cause harm to a computer it's installed on.

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No, it is not possible. First of all, they would kick themself out from the whole business sector, if they would require all applications to be installed from one source - Store. Many, many companies have specialized, custom software. It is simply unthinkable to even consider uploading those application to Store.
Indeed. It would be commercial suicide especially as MS makes more money from business licensing than it does from retail sales.
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Old 1st Oct 2012, 14:15   #20
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Perhaps Microsoft should just re-release MS-DOS for those poor people who cannot handle a few brightly-coloured squares.
No need, you can download and install FreeDOS for free. Besides, MS-DOS isn't compatible with many modern computers, so FreeDOS works better and is free of charge.
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